325 Classic Touring Car rebuild.

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taylorspug
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:13 pm

Hello all, I've been signed up on here for a few weeks now, and thought it was about time I shared my E30 story. Firstly (and this is my disclaimer!) as my name may indicate to some, I'm a Peugeot man, so do not profess to be any sort of E30 expert! If you want a silly engine in a 205 thats another matter....

My name is Dan, I'm 29, and I've owned the E30 below for about 5 years now. In that time its not worked for 4 and a half years.....

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The car from my information was first built and used in the late 80s/early 90s, and may well have seen action in the BTCC and even the Birmingham Superprix. It was then laid up for a number of years before being resurrected by the previous owner for the Kumho BMW championship in 2005. It had a very heavily modified M20 2.5 litre engine, which ran 203hp atw on a championship RR on triple 45 Webers, along with obviously a host of internal goodies- more of which another time. Along with this the car has M5 front brakes, Leda coilovers, and adjustable anti roll bars, aswell as an M3 gearbox, and plate LSD at the back.

I bought the car a couple of years after selling my Vento Cup car, as I wanted to race something RWD. Didnt pay a great deal for it, but I was already aware of a few problems with the car, namely the rust in the bulkhead, and the engine would need a refresh at some point. I already had in mind rebuilding the car, as it wasnt really up to the standard I like. All of these plans were brought forward when a ring broke up at Snett and destroyed the block, damaged one of the Mahle high comp pistons (which you cant get anymore) and generally ruined my day.

Heres where things slow down somewhat. I removed the engine with the intent to just rebuild it and get back out ASAP, however after having a poke around, and finding some 'interesting' ideas on car prep, decided the entire thing was a death trap and I couldnt justify using it in that state.

Basically the whole passenger side of the bulkhead and inner arch wasnt attached to the car in any serious way apart from a load of seam sealer covering the rusty joins. I've no pictures of the rust, but have one of the roughly finished engine bay, along with the turret tie-ins I'd added to the cage. The black paint was just used to protect it....

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More to follow....
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:18 pm

Christ in a cartoon 8O

I reckon that will be one hell of a car when it's all fully rebuilt & back on the road.

good luck & keep the updates coming.
if it's got t*ts or wheels it's bound to be trouble...............prove me wrong.
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taylorspug
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:31 pm

So onto the inside. The car had a Safety Devices cage from some bygone age of motorsport, which we shall call 'classic style' when it comes to safety. Firstly the door bars were only single bolt in items, and they were too low. So I fabricated and welded in some proper cross style bars, after chopping the old mounting points off. The cage also only had a single diagonal in the rear hoop, so I made that a full cross, aswell as triangulating the rear arch mounting points into the main hoop, welding in the windscreen bar, and then doing away with all the bolted parts by welding the entire cage into the car, along with fabricating some new spreader plates for the cage feet. A dash bar was also fitted after a small amount of notching to fit around the column, and the triangulation out through the bulkhead to the turrets was completed. Pictures of it finished, again not finally as its in black, below.

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I then turned my attention to the boot. Firstly added a welded in strut bar and reinforcement.

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Then decided that the aluminium fuel tank could be mounted very nicely in the spare wheel well if I did a small amount of chopping and welding, along with making a bulkhead for it to sit against.

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Also just found this random picture of the car right after the engine had been removed!

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Next up was what turned out to be the cars real time consumer- bodywork.
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
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taylorspug
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:04 pm

So on we go to bodywork. List of jobs read like this:

-Both rear arches were rot and filler specials.
-Old crash damage meant the LSF bodywork didnt sit on the car right.
-Both front wings needed replacing.
-Rear panel was rot and filler.
-Special edition wavy roof....
-Left side C pillar had half an inch of filler in it from previous accident.
-Assorted damage on both doors.
-Car had maybe 5 layers of paint on it.

Now I realise at this point most would have just thrown in the towel and reshelled the car. However none of the jobs were beyond my ability other than the time involved, and there was no guarantee any other E30 I would buy would be any better, especially when it comes to rust (which I f*cking hate).

This work commenced in 2008/2009. Arch repair panels were sourced and seamed in- which lead to the discovery of the C pillar issue, as the whole quarter was pushed in to the point where there was no upper swage line! The front end misalignment was caused by the whole inner wing being about an inch further inboard than it should have been. I sourced the box section part that runs down the outside of the inner wing from BMW, and then had to panel beat out the creases that were causing the misalignment, along with making a new top lip (the part that the wing bolts to). Pictures would tell a thousand words here but I seem to have lost them which is bloody annoying. Anyway I managed to get the front end straight, to the point where I was 90% happy with it and a wing mounted up fine.

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After these bits of work were completed the car was basically mothballed until late last year. I'd taken my eye off the ball, I was super busy with work, and my personal life was slowly turning into a train wreck. I had also moved out of the workshop the car was in, so it was unceremoniously dumped in my parents garage under a ton of Peugeot parts!

TBC......
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:24 pm

:D
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:27 pm

Looks a cool project :cool:

I used to own a fuel tank exactly like that.
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:32 pm

more!
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taylorspug
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:38 pm

Fast forward to maybe a year ago, and I wouldnt even go into the garage anymore as it made me so sad looking at the car like that! I finally had time to give the project my full attention again after sorting various issues that had stopped me before (well one issue actually- and I dumped her.). So as you can see from now on all the pictures are in the much more cramped location of my parents garage!

The rear panel and boot scuttle area was a right state- there was alot of rust, alot of filler and alot of old paint. I stripped the area right back to bare metal, welded in a few areas that had major rot issues, then the whole lot was put into red primer ready to be painted.

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It was becoming obvious that I was going to need to bare metal most of the car to get this right, so excuse the funky colours, they are mainly primer coats to protect it! The sheer amount of paint on the car bothered me, and it was usually hiding nasty stuff, so I methodically went around the main areas and steadily made progress.

Door shuts, including welding up a few trim mounting holes:

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Gutter rails and windscreen. The screen had rot in it, so this was repaired:

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The wavy roof was also sorted, it took maybe 2 days of sanding,scraping and chipping to get all the old paint and filler off, but once done I managed to beat the roof into a better shape, then finish with a light skim of filler. Why this wasn't done originally is anyone's guess. Its now ten times better, although not perfect, but im going to play the 'its a race car' card on that one!

I was now at a stage where proper paint was going on, so final decisions needed to be made over certain parts of the build. The triple 45s had long since been sold as I wanted to put the car on throttle bodies instead. The carbs seemed to work fine, but if you have the choice you just cant argue against bodies- the gains you get from being able to map the fuelling so accurately are easy to see in nearly all applications. I decided I would make my own setup using E36 M3 bodies, which would allow me to make my own inlet (with the oil return for the head), and also get a nice long tract length and ideal injector locations. However I thought space was going to be very tight for a decent air filter around the bulkhead, so mocked an engine up to see:

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After getting the 'bodies into about the right place, the cylinder 6 one was pretty much on the bulkhead. This was no good to me, as in my experience, one of the keys to making good power and torque from a throttle body setup is not only decent tract/trumpet length, but also getting a nice big filter onto the end of them that isn't shrouding the ends of the trumpets.

So to solve the problem I fabricated a cut out into the bulkhead to give me room to play with:

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Went well apart from the pains of welding 25 year old German steel! In all fairness my current MIG isn't the best piece of kit either.... Anyway this was all cleaned and tidied up- and we were finally ready for some final paint!
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
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taylorspug
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:50 pm

Painting! Firstly the engine bay, boot and cabin were given a coat of 2k steel grey:

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Went extremely well- I was over the moon in fact, especially as I'd been having a few weird paint reactions with other pieces and even some primer, so I was half expecting the entire thing to flare up and I'd be back to square one! Played it safe and didnt cut the mix down with any thinners and all was good, and the finish was lovely considering I didnt do it in a booth.

Painting the body next....
Last edited by taylorspug on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
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taylorspug
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:03 pm

steve_k wrote:Christ in a cartoon 8O

I reckon that will be one hell of a car when it's all fully rebuilt & back on the road.

good luck & keep the updates coming.
Thanks. The car is being built up again now so I will be posting alot of progress over the next couple of days to get up to the current state. It was quite a car the few times I used it. The last time it was out when the engine expired it was snapping sideways in 4th gear in the wet- so im eagerly awaiting a fully fresh engine!

Thanks for the comments guys- I will indeed keep it well updated.

Maxfield- Its a really nicely made tank actually, foam filled too. Im modifying the filler though so I can put a dry break style filler in the rear panel soon.

Jim- See I told you I had a plan! :wink: That subframe is all sorted now thanks pal.
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:06 pm

I shall pull up a chair...do crack on sir! :D
The story so far... http://www.cookracing.co.uk/

Also please help the race budget by watching some videos :) https://www.youtube.com/cookracinguk
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taylorspug
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Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:18 pm

So the car was then masked off for the final body colour:

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Primed:

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Arches painted:

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Then the car too:

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Happy right? Well, no actually! I didnt like the white. I'd wanted a plain, clean white, and this was an off white, almost half way towards Old English White, for those that know their old Fords.

So I did it again, and added a few other touches:

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The stripes are a bit Cliché I know, but I just really like the colours, and its as close as I will get to owning a real one. :)

They arent vinyl either, masked and painted.

And yes it took ages.
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taylorspug
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Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:25 pm

Onto the doors and body panels next. The doors had various bits of damage which had to be panel worked out and then filled, this was done and then they were sprayed white, refitted where necessary, and masked off for their part of the stripe, then removed and sprayed again. Not alot of pictures of this unfortunately, I was just getting on with it at the time and kind of forgot!

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The wings were also painted at this time. Both were pattern panels id picked up new, and both fitted pretty badly! However im not too surprised as I have had to make modifications to them to fit the wheels and the front bumper- more on that later.

The boot, rear bumper and spoiler were painted and fitted. The boot is metal, but heavily stripped of weight and attached by 4 pins. The rear bumper and spoiler are fibreglass.

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So with most of the painting done, building of the car could commence next!
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
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taylorspug
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Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:24 pm

Assembly started with a few parts being bolted in purely to get them out from under my feet. After moving out of my workshop space was at a real premium so the quicker I could get bits bolted on the car the better!

First up was the pedal box. Its a non servo twin cylinder bias box with a balance bar, however it retains the standard clutch master cylinder. Someone obviously made it in the past, and even though it looks a bit haggard in places its solid enough:

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It was cleaned up, fitted with new master cylinders from OBP, and then installed:

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Also bought 3 new master cylinder pots for the brakes and clutch:

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The steering column, which had been painted along with the interior, was then cleaned and installed:

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Dashboard started like this, bare but the addition of the dash bar meant I had to chop the centre console section out:

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Here it is finished and installed:

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The fire extinguisher and pull cords were installed, id fit the nozzles too, but as another legacy of moving workshops I've lost the bloody things:

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The rear axle and diff were then installed. The axle runs on solid mounts, as in both ends have a cap welded onto then, with a tube welded through the centre. The axle has also been raised in the car to offset the camber gains from its ride height. This means the diff has an offset solid bush in it to cope with the height change.

This picture reminds me I also spent 2 amazing days laying on my back scrubbing, grinding and painting the underside:

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Next post will show the work needed to get the front subframe built up and reinforced.....
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taylorspug
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Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:45 pm

So the front subframe, and it was another part with damage. Shortly before I had bought the car it had a seemingly small incident where it had slid sideways into a kerb (obviously on track). However the kerb being quite large, it dug in with the wheel rims, and the shock put through the suspension had smashed the diff (hence its now pretty much brand new), and as I discovered when I stripped the car it had also cracked the steering rack casing and bent one of the rack mounts on the subframe!

The rack was easily sorted (annoying as it was to have to throw away a proper manual quick rack), and I now have a E46 330ci unit. The subframe I had planned to replace, as I was totally unsure of how straight it was. Having purchased another subframe I noticed that although the new one was straight, my one was in alot better condition, which is hardly suprising given I think the car has been a race car 90% of its life. After measuring my old subframe against the new one I realised it was straight, save for the bent steering rack mount.

So commenced making 1 perfect subframe out of 2!

Old bent mount removed:

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Straight mount carefully removed from other subframe:

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Spot welded on top:

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Seamed all the way around, I seamed around the other mount too:

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Next up I made reinforcement plates for the subframe. I basically just copied the kits you can buy, so a plate laid in the engine mounting points, 2 triangulation plates for the edges of the engine mount 'cups', reinforcement for the weak ARB mounting, and I generally went around and welded all the gaps up so the subframe was a sealed structure:

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This has now been painted and installed, I will get a picture at some point.
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
Demlotcrew
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Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Great thread, welcome to the forum :cool:
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Mikey_Boy
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Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:10 am

^^^^ this is super stuff! Welcome to the slippery slope... :thumb:

Keep it coming! :D
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Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:50 pm

Brilliant!! loving the colour scheme!!
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taylorspug
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Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:09 pm

Many thanks for the kind words chaps. :)

Ok so next I had to tackle mounting the front bumper. Its a fibreglass copy of an E30 Evo/early DTM bumper (correct me if I'm wrong), and was previously attached to the car with pins. Although these were very easy to deal with, the bumper wasn't actually solidly mounted to anything, either at the front or the sides. This meant it was getting damaged through flapping about on its mounts and it looked a bit pants too. More seriously I was concerned in a race if it took even the slightest contact on the corners it would fold the wing into the wheel, cutting a tyre.

My solution was to make 4 solid mounting points for the bumper, and then bolt the bumper to it rather than pin it. Due to the cars ride height and the depth of the front splitter, it had to still be easy to remove in order to load the car onto any trailer (even a tilt bed!).

Front post:

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Side post:

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Once these were welded into place (dont ask why I didnt sort this before I painted the car), I made the end caps and welded captive nuts onto them:

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Here you can see the completed front mounts:

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The side mounts were slightly wider than the wings, this was planned, as the bumper is wider than the car, and also I needed as much room as I could get for wheel clearance. I peened the wings to fit the shape of the mounting posts, so they could be bolted up solidly to the posts along with the bumper.

With that done the mounts were masked up and painted:

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With all of this done, it was time to get some suspension stuck on the car so I could get it back on its wheels to fit the bumper itself, which is essential as I need the car on the floor to make sure the bumper is straight.

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Sorry for lack of proper pictures, the car is hemmed in to the garage at the moment so I cant get any full pictures! Hoping to have that sorted this week.

Next is the task of actually fitting the bumper to the car......
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Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:50 pm

So fitting the bumper. This was going to be a long and fiddly process. The bumper wasn't nicely cut to fit the car, and had damage on it which needed attending to. Firstly I had to repair both ends by building up layers of fibreglass. This would give me an ideal blank canvas to profile the edges of the bumper to fit the wing.

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Save for my slightly dodgy laying up work, this all went well. Next I needed to cut the profile of the wing, so I made a template:

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After profiling the ends of the bumper they fitted nicely against the edge of the wings. However I wasnt happy with the angle of the endplates, they just didnt pinch in tight enough to the wings and it was straining the mounting points and tearing the fibreglass. Decided the best option was to just put a couple of cuts in the bumper to take some of the pressure off of it, then pinch the ends in and use a small metal strap over the cuts, screwed on to set the bumper back into place and give it some strength.

You can just see the metal strap in this picture on the underside of the bumper:

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I then used P40 to plug the gaps in the cuts ready for laying up more fibreglass:

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Both sides done. You can also see the profiled ends better in this picture:

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To clean up all of this mess, I laid up a few layers of fibreglass directly over the areas that had been played with, which has made the bumper alot stronger, and also helps smooth everything out ready for prep and paint:

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Next up will be reinforcing the actual mounting points on the bumper. Because of how much it will be removed and refitted, its pretty essential the mounting points are strong to avoid cracking and fraying of the fibreglass.
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Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:30 pm

Small and slightly boring update. I have made and installed the reinforcement for the front mounting plates in the bumper.

First job was to cut a fillet in the bumper around the mounting hole so I could install the reinforcement plate, rivet it on, then fibre glass over the surface without it protruding from the original bumper line and generally looking a mess:

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Next up was making the reinforcement plates. These are just some thin sheet steel, formed to the curve of the bumper, with two 5mm thick tabs welded on to form a really solid bolt mounting. They will then be riveted on, and only the top surface of the tabs visible on the finished bumper:

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Then attached the plates to the bumper. Mixed up some fibreglass resin to bond the plates on as well as the riveting:

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Very happy- they are extremely strong even now, I will be laying some fibreglass matting over them to bond and smooth them into the bumper tomorrow, and this should finish them off nicely. Tomorrow should also see the side mounts done.

Apologies that this lot isn't very photogenic, but its all part of the process. As you may be gathering, this was fundamentally a great car, but everything on it was knackered! So instead of buying new and uprated parts, as one generally does when building a race car, my car has alot of the parts, but all of them need rebuilding or refinishing in some way! I'm also reasonably pedantic over things, I dont like to keep going back to parts once the car is finished because they aren't ideal. Its a waste of time, and it distracts from the main aim of building a car like this- having fun and going faster! If I'm spending time in between race meetings repairing the bumper mounts because they have fallen apart again, it means im not spending time stringing the car up to make sure the alignment is perfect, for example.
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tomislav
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Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:22 pm

This is a great thread, have just read the story so far, following this with interest for mine!

What do you do for a living by the way?
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taylorspug
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Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:31 pm

Thanks. :)

I have a few more updates coming, the completed front bumper being one of them, and some more in depth stuff with regard to the rose jointed steering arms and rear axle. Plenty to keep the track-orientated bunch interested!

I used to work in motorsport, and was heavily involved in 'new building' alot of race cars, aswell as running a few cars for a few teams. I am a qualified motorsport engineer for what the piece of paper is worth! However the last few years have been spent basically working my way through all aspects of building and restoring older cars, from engine building, conversions, fabrication and more recently painting- really a broad spectrum of all the crafts. Hence pretty much every piece of work you will see on this car will be done 'in house' so to speak!

If you want to know anything a bit more in depth about parts of the car to help with your own, feel free to give me a PM, im always happy to explain. :)
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taylorspug
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:12 am

Long overdue update to this.

Finished the front bumper- it took a while and was a bit of a 'mare, but it was better than forking out for a new one.

After bonding the mounting plates in I finished up the glass fibre work, then smoothed and primed the whole lot.

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Once it was painted, it seemed rude not to assemble the entire front end properly and fit it....

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Next I finally got hold of a steering linkage (after much time and faff). Its just a regular E30 PAS linkage with all the rubber doughnut removed. I basically just copied the straightforward setup that the car had previously with the manual rack, only minus the solid nylon spacer that was fitted, due to the height of the pinion on the E46 Clubsport rack. I dont know the in's and outs of how the steering linkages fit (or dont fit!) on standard 6 cyl cars, but mine uses a Hartge tubular manifold so the linkage will fit fine like this. The bolts used to bolt the 2 halves together are shouldered to fit the larger hole diameter of the upper joint, so I didnt have to drill them out to M10 to get a good fit which was a bonus.

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The only modification I had to make was to the centre spigot on the new PAS joint. It has a shoulder near the base which prevents the spigot fitting in the nylon centre spacer and the 2 halves of the linkage butting up together. I simply filed the shoulder down all the way around to the same diameter as the rest of the spigot. Then found the entire spigot was too long as it fouled the bottom of the UJ with the 2 halves together! So chopped 10mm out of the length and all sorted!

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I have many more parts of the car sorted but I need to get the car out of the workshop and give it a bit of a clean to get some proper pictures of it all! Fitted a full set of Mike Templars excellent plastic windows, including a formed rear screen. Really well made- very happy. Also bought the front door window trims and seals from Magpie on here, he made a great job of removing these extremely delicate parts, and they have now been painted and fitted. Although the car doesn't strictly need these pieces, it finishes it off nicely I feel, and turns it into a polished product, rather than a hashed together clonky old race car! Also have run all the internal brake lines from the master cylinders through the car to T- pieces, really happy with how thats all worked out. Again, pictures will appear in the next few days.

Its getting very close to engine building time....
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:53 am

:cool:
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Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:03 pm

Now onto the engine.

I've mentioned in the first post that the engine was quite well modified before I bought the car, it made good power, and appeared to have some decent work done on it.

Now that I have turned my attention to it there are certainly a few things I can improve on, after following some excellent threads on here and e30tech, as well as basic good engineering sense. Firstly the basics- The engine MUST remain 2.5l, due to that being a class limit in alot of series for 2v heads. Therefore it must also retain the standard head casting, although if I really wanted to get tricky I could build a 24v on a E30 block in a smaller capacity and run in the same class. However I want to retain the cars true heritage as much as possible so 2v head it is. I can and will be running the engine on throttle bodies. The previous incarnation ran 3x 45 Weber DCOE's, which seemed to perform fine but pound for pound bodies cant be beaten, so they were sold, manifold et al. A key point for me is not spending an absolute fortune! Although I want this car to be as good as I can possibly make it, I have to be a realist. I'm not looking to keep the car forever, maybe a couple of years, and I frankly don't have the disposable income to upgrade every part as much as possible. There is also the issue that once you upgrade all these parts, and then have an accident and break some of them, the repair bill is just as vast again! Lastly as I'm learning the charm of BMW's, especially in the engine department, is their interchangability- plus the fact that the engines are strong and basically well engineered. So here you will see me basically trying to build about the best 2.5l naturally aspirated M20 that the BMW parts bin will allow! A few parts will be modified as necessary, or improved upon for their new intended purpose.

Old engine specs:

- Standard M20 block, 84mm bore, de-stressed casting.

- 75mm crank. Im having trouble working out if this is a standard M20B25 item or something else- it certainly has BMW written on it. More research needed.

- High compression Mahle pistons. These almost certainly came from either a Hartge or Alpina etc road engine conversion, as they are cast not forged, use the standard ring, and the outer edge comes to deck nicely with a standard rod. They have a large intruder section with valve cutouts, and from my rough calculations would have given around 12:1 compression with my heavily skimmed head.

- Standard 135mm M20B25 rods.

- Modified sump with extra capacity, baffling and windage tray.

- 885 casting head. Looking at this and the flow bench results that have been gained on here and e30tech, this has been ported by somebody with ALOT of experience in these engines. From what I have been told, it was originally built by a company called Griffin Motorsport, id imagine this was 20 years ago though at the least.

- Schrick cam, identity unknown.

- What look like Schrick valves in the standard size- 42mm inlet, 36mm exhaust.

- Vernier pulley.

- Standard destressed rockers.

- Standard or maybe Schrick valve springs.

- Hartge tubular exhaust manifolds.

Crank in the block:

Image

Pistons at TDC:

Image

The valves and pistons in the block at TDC. I will get a full piston picture later today:

Image

First port of call was the original block- it was scrap! The engine had died due to a catastrophic piston ring failure owing much to poor maintenance, and what would appear to be a lash up job to get it sold, that coupled with the previous owner running no filters on the carbs (idiot), meant the block was scored past any reasonable use. Shame too, it was numbered in some way which added to the originality of the car. So I sourced a M20B20 block with smaller bores, and had it taken out to 84mm.

Next was the pistons. A couple had received significant damage due to rings breaking up. A part of the lower oil control land had actually been broken off! I had these parts repaired extremely well by someone my father knows who is a bit of a tig welding artist. However on reflection I wasn't happy with running these as it would always be in the back of my mind. I also didn't like the height of the piston in total, even though it was lightweight, the skirts were far too big and cumbersome for a race engine running high revs, which could be seen in the general wear on them. So they were out! I started hunting for a suitable replacement piston in the BMW range, at 84mm, which would have enough meat in the crown to replicate the shape of the old piston. Stumbled across the M52 piston range in the end- very much an ideal shape along the bottom with the waisted skirt and closely packed rings, half way towards a race slipper! The top is flat with 4 valve cutouts, however most of these cutouts would be swallowed up by the machining to replicate the old pistons so no issue there. I had also read that there was alot of meat in the crown for such machining. So M52B25/28 pistons it is! Although they have slight differences I can make either work- just need to find some now.

Running these pistons makes another decision for me- longer rods! I can now use the M52B25 rod, which is 140mm, 5 up on standard, and will decrease the pressure on the cylinder walls- no bad thing when you are building a high revving engine.

The 75mm crank from the old engine is still solid, so I will either just use this, and get it knife edged and dynamically balanced, or try to get hold of a M52B25 crank and weigh up the pros/cons of using that.

More to come, including details of that lovely head I was talking about.... and how its scrap! Also I will get some more component pictures.

Dan.
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
Demlotcrew
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Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:29 pm

Not sure if a B20 block would be my first choice as its a slightly weaker cast than the B25, it also lacks water/steam holes between the cylinders, which I would have thought to be very beneficial to a race car? :?
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taylorspug
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Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:07 pm

To be honest I'm not expecting the block strength to be an issue, its a rather solid lump to my eye especially after being de-stressed, to the point where its almost overkill in places. The water holes between the cylinders I had noticed, and wasn't aware of the difference! I may look in to re-drilling them. On the other hand, not using them means I would have alot more gasket in between the fire rings for the cylinders, which is a bit of added security on that front. I don't really get the point of them if I'm honest, sure they must do something, but they are quite small...

As I'm sure you can understand, my main reason for using this block was the ability to get totally fresh bores. Obviously buying another B25 engine/block would leave me in a slightly 'Russian Roulette' situation, as I would have to find a block that was good enough to just take a hone. Given the age of the engines and the sort of mileage they seem to rack up, I didnt rate my chances on that front!
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
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Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:54 pm

Couple of other pictures just for the hell of it.

Heres a picture of the full piston, you can't get them anymore as I've checked the number with Mahle. Apparently they were made in a VERY limited number.

Image

Here is the Hartge exhaust manifold that came with the car. This looks like a part that came with the Hartge 'factory' kits. Unsure if I'm going to use it, apart from a bit of cleaning up and sorting some of the diabolical drain pipe bends that have been welded on as downpipes it looks ok for a starting point. I can see a BTB being purchased fairly sharpish though...!

Image
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Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:30 pm

Temporary halt on the engine as I am trying to source a M52B25 bottom end to scavenge parts from. Had one lined up on Ebay, but usual Ebay thing, getting information out of sellers is like squeezing blood from a stone!

Instead I have sorted the gear linkage, mainly so I can refit the gearbox to the car and get it out from under my feet. The linkage, as with pretty much everything on the car it seems, is not standard. From pictures I have seen it appears to be a copy of the group A/DTM linkage setup. Very nice short shift, but it had a little bit of slack in the linkages so a bit of a rethink was needed.

Heres the linkage as it was taken off of the gearbox:

Image

Its actually a really well made piece, although it looks a little tatty. The fork was attached to the linkage and the gearbox using these pins:

Image

They worked ok, but because the didnt have a solid fixing point to the fork they were starting to oval out the holes in it as they had been chattering/moving. As such I decided to beef it all up a bit. The pins were 10mm in diameter, so my plan was to use a 10mm shanked bolt, and weld a nut onto one end of the fork at both ends- giving the solid fixing point. Id already welded the nuts on in the picture of the linkage above- bit sad I dont have a tig welder to get the welding on the nuts as nice as the welding on the rest of the fork, but spotting them on with the MIG will do fine. Even though I planned to use spring washers on the bolts, obviously I couldn't really do them up tight as it would bind up the linkage. So as added security I cross drilled the nuts once they were welded on, with the bolts in place, so that I could lockwire the bolts into place too.

With that done stripping down the main lever assembly was next:

Image

As you can see its all very tatty, top bit is the lever with bottom nylon bush, then left to right circlip, spacer, top nylon bush, then below is the main lever base.

The ball section of the lever wasn't very nicely located, as the ball wasn't located snugly in between the nylon cup/bushes. Basically the spacer ideally needed to be a bit thicker, however I decided a better plan was to use a wave spring washer to keep the spacer and bushes under a bit of compression when it was all greased and re-assembled.

Anyway with that sorted, it was time to clean and paint all pieces ready to assemble:

Image

Then greased the ball and refitted into the housing with the bottom bush, then top bush, spacer, washer, circlip- and it all fitted perfectly. Boom!

Bolted the fork onto the bottom and lockwired it, then slid the entire lot onto the box, bolted and lockwired the other end of the fork, job done.

Image

Image

Can clearly see the lockwired bolts here. The linkage is now like a Winchester rifle, super precise, and it feels alot easier to get across to the dogleg first, and through the detent to select reverse. I can refit the gearbox now, which also means I can lay out the brackets and lines to pipe up the clutch. :)
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
Demlotcrew
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Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:53 pm

So this is a Getrag 265?

Have you seen these shifters which are DTM replicas.

Image

About £380 posted.

Could be a better solution to the one above?

Andrew
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taylorspug
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Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:10 pm

Andrew- Yes Getrag 265. Many thanks for that! It looks similar to what I have above in a round about way- even down to the pins used. In fact as you say identical to a DTM one which I'd seen in the past. I will see how this one works out, despite its fairly basic look it actually works very well now I have rebuilt it. Id imagine its been on the car since at least 1990 so its not done bad to be fair! Much as I would like to buy nice new parts, I simply dont have the funds to do that short term and get the car out racing next year too. Also although this won't go down well on a BMW forum I have two 205 Gtis which are consuming money- 1 lightly modified car which I'm using for sprinting next year, and the rebuild of my dearly loved 16v road/track car!

Where is that part from exactly? If this one starts messing about I may just relent, spend the money and be done with!

Dan. :)
E30 2.5l M20 race car. Just coming out of a 4 year hibernation/restoration.
Demlotcrew
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Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:16 pm

I bought mines from Markus,

He is based in Germany and the replica quality is really nice.

Here is a link to his shop.

http://www.bmwm3shop.de/product_info.ph ... Shift.html

Andrew
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taylorspug
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Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:20 pm

Great thanks alot, bookmarked that, will keep it in mind. Always nice to hear people with actual experience of a product rather than "well it looks good enough...."!
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Nobby_N
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Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:26 pm

Great thread! :)
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