m20 boosting

[bulletproofbob]

right... i was halfway down the m50 route when i decided to stay m20 and boost!! i cant see the point in m50 swap for the gains and to be fair i always loved my m20'd cars... long term i have an m52b28 bottom end to build into an m20 but i want the cheapest possible build thread to read and try to copy...

i have a td04 from my old impreza in the garage and a lot of time tube and welding ability to build a basic manifold.... but i need a basic build for inspiration

[ross2009]

when people say basic the never take into concideraion the tuning the brake upgrades ect etc when you have more power you still need to stop
how much you thinking of spending time and cost ?
are you going to do it all your self ?
what about management ? how you going to fuel it and manage the ignition ?
its easy to bolt a turbo on but there many more things to think about

[bulletproofbob]

im no newbie to spanners and fabrication but the turbo's have always been in cars that came origionaly with them, though i fitted bigger... the car is already a fairly well sorted track car though it needs TLC after a bit of time stood. uprated discs and pagit pads will do me for stopping for now as the car weighs a hell of a lot less than when it left the factory, and the suspension (unknown origin) is nice and firm but i am going to turret the rear and fingers crossed will fall on some coilovers for the front at some point... cage and strut braces all there too... so i have considered far more than a simple "bolt on"

i want to know what people on budgets have done but for fueling its probably going to end up been megasquirt but i will see if anyone has done a different route... IC i have the saab items on my radar as i think i can squeeze them in without looking too mental. i have access to material and equipment to make all flanges/manifolds required and i have a decent bore stash of pipe and silencers for the exhaust already sat around though with a turbo the silencers aren't needed too much.

what will i spend?? well money wise i want to spend as little as possible as i believe in building my cars not buying them but time wise i am aiming for a track day in 2013 though i have pressure from a friend or 2 to get it done for june 2012... i may just start fabrication and run this year as non turbo again, but we will see...

any info is welcomed on all aspects!

[bulletproofbob]

oh and PS i've spent alot of time previously perving over the pics of your e30!! stunning mate!!!

[ross2009]

oh and PS i've spent alot of time previously perving over the pics of your e30!! stunning mate!!!

lol ha ha i get that alot lol
well basically your looking at 400 for megasquirt some uprated head bolts dependin on what you get arps are about 200 bigger injectors again depends on ya bhp target but you can use a stock late engine which is 8.8-1 which should hold a bar of boost and hit over 300 bhp then just little things like are you gonna run wasted spark coil packs ?
oil feed oil return needs fabing fuel pump will be ok to a certain degree but will prob bottle out at about 250 bhp mark
and if ya gonna do most of it ya self the rest is just pipe work and wiring for the new ecu

[bulletproofbob]

now your talking!!! i have a late model anyway so i am low compression already. i am aiming for 250+ and to be honest 300 would be fantastic but i think anything over 230 will seem a damn sight quicker!!
not sure on what setup to use re the wasted spark?!? this is an area i am blind to so far... but the rest i'm reasonable...
i'm guessing feed for oil from pressure tapping and then return direct to sump, fuel pump i "may" have a 255 walbro in the garage from my old scooby but again no rush for that lol.
pipe work is not an issue, though i am thinking a simple log manifold for the turbo to mount on but i may butcher the tubular manifold fitted as it will flow for better... i was going to just look higher in the model range for injectors, big six or m50 and see what was available...

[ross2009]

i dont think the later model injectors fit not 100% sure your prob best going for some thing like the 32lbs from the saabs or some thing like that there straight swap even at low boost youll have 250 bhp easy
but i dont really know the specs on the td04 turbo if your gonna use it for track days youll be better off getting some thing that spools up quick and at low revs
the oil feed would be easier to come from the oil pressure switch near the sump and yeah just weld a return in to the sump but make sure its high enough as for the oil lever dont block the return hole

[bulletproofbob]

td04 was what was on my 2000 turbo and it made easy 250bhp but i may run out of wind top end (read will run out thinking about it) but spools quick as hell... what sort of scrap yard finds are best? was going to go looking at saab 95 2.3 turbo bits so i need to rob injectors as well as just looking...

return above oil level is stupidly obvious and no doubt cocked up many many times ha ha and if you hadn't mentioned it i doubt i'd have thought about it lol

[ross2009]

yeah might make 250 bhp on a 4 pot but youve gotta remember youve got 2 more cylinders producing gases on a beema but it might be ok i know they use the is t ko4 ?? from the evos on beemas pretty well

you prob wont find many things in a scrap yard that will be much use tbh apart from maybe a vauxhall coil pack from a v6 or some thing you can use with ms

[bulletproofbob]

hmmm true, i think of running out of steam but of course there will be more pressure exhaust side too... i was only thinking of using it as its what i have...

[GeoffBob]

[bulletproofbob]

Geoffbob thanks for that, i havent got too far into that thread and there is some good stuff!!! i have been thinking of an eaton M45 or possibly M90 as they potentially suit track work better but my issue is they have far less expertise to help me in the fitting/running and its this i'll need... though it seems i have a couple on board already!!

i have had a guy i know chatting to his work mate who is working on a turbo conversion using nissan managment?!? i'm looking forward to finding a little more out on that!

[bulletproofbob]

oh my word Geoff... you have me sat looking at my A level Physics books again.....

[bulletproofbob]

right then, i am going to head off down the TD04 road and see where i get.... i have outlet flange for the turbo and inlet is easily made so plan is simply to get a nice manifold fab'd for now while i do further reading...

[fowler]

if you do cheap it goes bang
I have 2.7 stroker turbo and its not cheap even if you do most of the work yourself
The parts for turbo are ready available if you can find a concoction that works but the costs mount up pretty quick.
Landy T5 tke of pipe is a good return for the sump.
I am up to 400bhp before is started breaking stuff.
Its all the other bits that add up like brakes and suspension. you need some big old discs on the front to stop the sods HTH PM if you require any Info
I also have amegasquirt for sale cheap to help on the management side of things

[GeoffBob]

[GeoffBob]

Just to add to the above, you should be able to get access to all the necessary info you need to know with regards to your Mitsubishi TD04 turbocharger from melett.com here: http://www.melett.com/turbocharger-catalogues.php

Sadly, I see that their catalogue is accesible via login only now. Contact them and see if they'll give you access. If so, they have all the necessary info on the full range of TD-04's. You will of course need to know just which TD04 it is that you have. Should be marked on the side. If not, you could be in for trouble if your turbine is on the small side. Hopefully not.

[Steve]

Some good info here from GeoffBob about the TD04 16G http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... sc&start=0

I found the TD04 to be a bit small tbh and will be using TD05 16G.

[eta]

The TD04 HL 16T is the one I worked would be suitable for a 2.7i M20. It would be even more suitable on M20 2.5 I did the sums ust to see. Some of the TD05 series would also be suitable.. You could run up to ~13 psi of boost without getting to near the choke line. You should be fair way from the surge line as well at low rpm's. My sums indicated that ~300 hp is the limit for the compressor in this turbo with a good intercooler at 13 psi. All of the smaller TD04's choke to soon for exaple the TD04-HL-15T found on earlier T5's. This turbo is found on the V70 T5.

Whether the turbine chokes preventing 13psi of boost is another matter, I have not without dismattling the turbo been able to find the information I need to calculate the turbine choke flow (a Geofbob posting) to work out if the wastegate that comes with the turbo will do the job for 300 hp.

I bought the turbo and it is now sitting in the shed as the car was written off.

[bulletproofbob]

i do actually have a TD05 16g too but thats currently on a friends car.... i doubt i'll get that in a hurry...

Geoffbob i too like plan 3, but with a healthy sprinkle of plan 2 in there also. i'll still start to make/mod the manifold ready but i'll not flange it till i am sure of the size of my TD04.

[bulletproofbob]

http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm

am looking throught this lot...

[jimmyspeed]

i have a td04L for my turbo build (320i)

i also used the stealth website to size mine up, it has the inlet diameters for the turbo manifold which are in the spec tables

if you want gaskets get them from

http://www.importcarparts.co.uk/parts_i ... o%20gasket

quick delivery and genuine subaru parts for cheap !!!! if you search turbo gasket you get the two you need

the gasket to the engine exhaust is the same size for both the td05 and td04

[bulletproofbob]

doh, course they are.... i swapped em on my own car

[bulletproofbob]

well a little update, though not much in the way of info... i think i have some managment sorted thanks to Mr Fowler and i also think i have yet another turbo option thrown in the pot in the form of a VF28 that a nice chap who owes me has in his garage right now... i know this still isn't the scientific way to go but it is a turbo capable of more flow than the TD04 in a big way.

[ross2009]

also remember you can go to much the other way the bigger the turbo the more lag you will have

[bulletproofbob]

lol oh i know, a lad off the PPC forum i spend most of my time on was just selling a variable vane holset monster he'd been using on his saab 2.3 motor.... it was very cheap but i doubt i could tame her, made 550hp on the saab

[fowler]

what Holset is it I have HX35 on mine.

[bulletproofbob]

no its the HE351VGT jobbie, i think he had the hx35 before this (not 100%)

[fowler]

about hx40 size will work fella

[bulletproofbob]

lmao yeah i can't overtake anything but i just suck the cars in front into my engine!!!!

[fowler]

yep but it all depends how far you want to go mate

[bulletproofbob]

i'm ideally wanting more than 250 but will be happy at 300, i imagine a power increase of 40% ish will more than keep me happy!!

[fowler]

it will never keep you happy trust me

[ross2009]

Fowler speaks the truth I've been running 300bhp for about 6 months I'm alread going to build a new engine with forged internals for more power

[bulletproofbob]

lol i can imagine!!