M52B28 supercharged. Whats the possibilities?

[tomislav]

Basically wondering if anyone out the has supercharged an m52b28 engine, if so then with how much sucess, what bits used etc.

Just looking for costs, ideas of chargers to use, all the normal stuff really.

Thanks

[rich318i]

wouldnt do it myself not worth it, get new better cams for it

[maxfield]

wouldnt do it myself not worth it, get new better cams for it

Your reason being?

M50s take well to boost.

I'd of though you could put some boost into an M52 without issue too.

Do it. Be different.

[Quaser]

saw this thread yesterday:

http://www.driftworks.com/forum/drift-c ... rsion.html

[rich318i]

its not a heavy car to start with (traction) and superchargers are over 1k might as well drop a E46 M3 inside. an engine thats made to go fast

[Mikey_Boy]

Superchargers are thermally not as efficient as turbos and inline 6's lend themselves very well to turbocharging. From a packaging point of view, it's much easier to supercharge anything in a V configuration (V6 or V8) so in line 6's and 4's tend to get turbo'd for that reason alone...

I can imagine an M50 or M52 with a couple of small turbos would be an awesome prospect!

[mattyb]

a supecharged m52 would rock but there is alot more info out there about turbod m50/52 so would probably be easier to go turbo.

[Rav335uk]

A Supercharger installation is neater than a Turbo, and can give good increases in BHP.
Kingcruizer has on running in his M20B28 motor and is running about 380bhp.
Looking in his engine bay, you would have to look for the install

[redcar]

M52 twin sequential turbo would be cool.

I wander how much extra the supercharger gear weighs. Would be quite a big factor in deciding whether its worth supercharging the m52.

[Rav335uk]

Rotrex Supercharger weighs 5KG.

[tomislav]

Its gotta be worth doing, by the way, that driftworks link, the car in it looks like its gonna work well.

If someone can map an m52b28 turbo then you could map a supercharged one too i imagine.

Looks like the charger fits nicely where the ac pump used to mount.

Anyone got a spare supercharger?

[redcar]

Rotrex Supercharger weighs 5KG.

not too bad then, a lot lighter than a 500bhp+ capable turbo weighs.

[tomislav]

Ya talking about adding 10, maybe 15kg to a car that will probably end up with a 30-40% power gain, 15kg is about a quarter of a tank of fuel!!!!

[redcar]

Ya talking about adding 10, maybe 15kg to a car that will probably end up with a 30-40% power gain, 15kg is about a quarter of a tank of fuel!!!!

all true, but i think that 15-20kg right on the front of an e30 would make quite a difference to the car's handling. Especially when there's already a heavy m52 up front

[Mikey_Boy]

You'll regret going to a supercharger.....

[Rav335uk]

The charger fits where the A/C pump would fit on the M20/M30's , and to Map it, ShepsEvo can do it.
I spoke to his business partner a few weeks ago at doing mine.

[Rav335uk]

You'll regret going to a supercharger.....

Why????


Power is there straight away, no lag to wait for.
If set up right you can have a nice 500hp.

[Mikey_Boy]

There is always lag regardless of whether you are spinning up a turbo or supercharger - the only difference is the drive mechanism - one from the crank for your supercharger, the other from exhaust gases for your turbo...

Problem is that turbos got a bad reputation because the sizing of them wasn't really understood until recently, hence this myth that superchargers give 'instant boost' and turbos do not. Drive a modern turbocharged car and you will see 'instant' boost is possible from a turbo'd engine as well and you are getting your horsepower for less than with a supercharger - the losses are HUGE with superchrgers, probably about 150hp on a 450hp engine - so you are in effect having to have a 600hp engine to get your 450hp out - plus your cooling pack needs to be bigger (more weight) and your engine internals have to be stronger again than with a turbo'd engine of similar (flywheel) output.

The thermal efficiency, or fraction of the fuel/air energy that is converted to output power, is less with a mechanically driven supercharger than with a turbocharger, because turbochargers are using energy from the exhaust gases that would normally be wasted, therefore both the fuel economy (but who cares!!) and the power (yes please) of a turbocharged engine are usually better than with superchargers.

Superchargers have their place on a drag strip, turbos are far better suited to track and road applications.

Twin small turbos on an M5x would make 500hp as well - packaging is a pig that's for sure but I bet 2 turbos wouldn't weigh any more than a supercharger.

Single or twin turbo every time for me on a BMW...

[scjimbo]

There is always lag regardless of whether you are spinning up a turbo or supercharger???

Please explain mate. Always wondered about this.

[redcar]

There is always lag regardless of whether you are spinning up a turbo or supercharger???

Please explain mate. Always wondered about this.

efficiency, point which the turbine operates optimally at.

[tomislav]

Turbo's and superchargers have to get to a certain speed internally before they start doing anything. Obviously, the problem with a HUGE turbo is it takes forever to prduce boost.

The aim for this said supercharger conversion would be to aim for approx. extra 80ish bhp, car currently runs 210 (m52b28, m50 inlet, danthe exhaust and chip).

What would the gain be expected for say lumpy us m3 cams (1200quid from schrick, these are us m3 cams but even lumpier) and an agressive remap?

[Mikey_Boy]

If all you are after is 300-ish hp, I would go S5x rather than supercharge the M5x...

[Rav335uk]

There is always lag regardless of whether you are spinning up a turbo or supercharger - the only difference is the drive mechanism - one from the crank for your supercharger, the other from exhaust gases for your turbo...

Drive a modern turbocharged car and you will see 'instant' boost is possible from a turbo'd engine as well and you are getting your horsepower for less than with a supercharger - the losses are HUGE with superchrgers, probably about 150hp on a 450hp engine - so you are in effect having to have a 600hp engine to get your 450hp out - plus your cooling pack needs to be bigger (more weight) and your engine internals have to be stronger again than with a turbo'd engine of similar (flywheel) output.

Any info to back up the amount of losses in BHP of 150 on running a Supercharger???
I know it takes some, but not entirely true of that sort of loss.

[Mikey_Boy]

Now you are getting into specifics - general rule of thumb that you *could* lose up to a third of your overall power again if your supercharger isn't sized right for the application and/or the engine configuration is bad - and let's not forget that most bolt on supercharger applications won't be sized quite right

The actual power loss due to supercharging is dependent on a whole list of factors:

Volumetric efficiency of your engine
Overall airflow required
Type of supercharger
Amount of boost you are running
Ratio of engine speed to supercharger speed
Ambient air temperature
Engine configuration

etc etc etc...

Do a google search on Supercharger power consumption and you will get much more detailed info.

I am not saying that superchargers are bad - not at all, just that turbochargers are thermally BETTER...

[Mikey_Boy]

Have a look here for some good reading as the whys and then you can do some calcs for yourself:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=395212

[redcar]

Superchargera generate a lot of heat and are considered quite unreliable.

Turbo all the time, every time on a 6 pot BMW engine.

V8s are a different story though.

[Gunni]

You'll regret going to a supercharger.....

Why????


Power is there straight away, no lag to wait for.
If set up right you can have a nice 500hp.

if you are talking about a rotrex supercharger or other centrifugal chargers then it´s not a great option, there is no lag because there is no boost until the last 2k rpm.

As seen here.



Absolutely any turbo kit would spool better then that. For a 350hp M50B28 you could have 1bar boost as low as 2800rpm giving you serious torque and absolutely no lag at all.

A centrifugal compressor is great for NA engines with very strong low ends like S62´s but fall on their ass up high, the charger can compensate for the massive VE drop.