Bigger does not mean better

[capri_rob]

New cars getting bigger. Annoying.

The only thing about my daily mondeo turd that annoys me is that its too fooking big. Its got a gazillion airbags built into all the pillars and a massive overhang at each end - trying to park it is like trying to land an aircraft carrier

Driving and parking the E30 in comparison with the massive glass area is an absolute breeze

Just out of intererst went on Autotrader the other day to compare the dimensions to some older models - my mondeo is almost as long as and wider than an old Ford Scorpio ! What the hell ???

My old man is looking for a new car at present to replace his Ford Focus - had a look yesterday and the "New" Fiesta is almost as big as the "old" Focus - and the "New" Focus is much bigger again !

Haven't looked yet but I can almost guarantee that a 1 Series coupe is bigger than an E30 !

When will manufacturers realise that making something bigger does not automatically improve it - how about keeping it roughly that same size but using new materials to make it lighter to improve power to weight ratio ?

[gareth]

Have a look at what's happened to VW's over the years. they've all got bigger and bigger and they've tagged smaller models onto the bottom! The lupo, fox etc, all smaller than the polo which used to be the smallest in the range. in fact a mk2 polo is a lot smaller than the fox. Why not just add larger cars to the range and keep the polo as the smallest, then golf.... etc

have you ever parked an E30 in a car park next to a yaris? you know, the poxy little things? They're 2 inches wider, 6 inches higher than a standard E30

[cecotto479]

I'm sure I read that the E90 3 series is bigger than the E28 5 series.

[daimlerman]

This the main reason why E30 is still my daily....
Parking at home is between two brick walls 8'6'' apart,with the main door to the house past one parking space.




And from the rear;



Even an E46 is too wide to allow comfortable foot access to,say,the postie!

[Zetecvan]

As Gareth says, look at VWs. The Mk1 Golf is smaller than the current Mk5 Polo.

[nickso]

it's probably to do with manufacturers obsession with being "top of the class".....more leg room, more headroom ,more bootspace.


I doubt BMW would have sold as many 3's if they had stayed the same size as an e30.

[B7]

The reason Ford discontinued the Scorpio (which folloed the Granada which was of course their luxobarge flagship) was that they realised the scorpiowas actually no more roomier than the Mondeo .

The 7 sereis was always a big car but shit! the new ones like an aircraft carrier! The new 5 looks to be of similar proportions to an e32.

[cecotto479]

I've just forcibly squeezed another E23 into the unit and, honestly, they are mucking fassive. I'm going to have a look and check sizes out of interest.

Edit:-
1979 BMW 732i dimensions & weight
Wheelbase 2790 mm 109.8 in
Track front 1500 mm 59.1 in
rear 1520 mm 59.8 in
Length 4860 mm 191.3 in
Width 1800 mm 70.9 in
Height 1430 mm 56.3 in
Length:wheelbase ratio 1.74
Ground clearance
Kerb weight 1500 kg 3307 lb
Weight distribution
(Front)
Fuel capacity 100 litres 22 UK Gal 26.4 US Gal



2001 BMW 745i dimensions & weight
Wheelbase 2990 mm 117.7 in
Track front 1586 mm 62.4 in
rear 1590 mm 62.6 in
Length 5029 mm 198 in
Width 1902 mm 74.9 in
Height 1492 mm 58.7 in
Length:wheelbase ratio 1.68
Ground clearance
Kerb weight 1945 kg 4288 lb
Weight distribution
(Front)
Fuel capacity 96 litres 21.1 UK Gal 25.4 US Gal
2001 BMW 745i aerodynamics

Unbelievable! 7 inches longer. 4 inches wider and halft a ton heavier! Progress my arse!

[capri_rob]

The reason Ford discontinued the Scorpio (which folloed the Granada which was of course their luxobarge flagship) was that they realised the scorpiowas actually no more roomier than the Mondeo .

Nothing to do with it being pig ugly compared to the previous model

I thought it was because Ford just couldn't compete in the prestige end of the market anymore - the previous shape 24v Scorpio in black or dark blue with black leather was a superb executive chariot in its day - the frog-eyed one was just sh1t in comparison.

They seemed to be pushing the Galaxy as their range-topper at the time

Having said that I went in a new Ford People-carrier yesterday ( S-Max ?? The big one ? ) and it felt very well screwed together.

Overall dimensions will be one of the first things I check when I decide to change the turd again - big cars are great if you have a massive carpark at work - which unfortunately I don't.

[Blitz]

Biggest problem I have is that they all look overweight and bulbous especially the front end.

[Blitz]

F10 vs E32

2009 BMW 535i dimensions & weight

Wheelbase 2968 mm 116.9 in
Track front 1600 mm 63 in
rear 1627 mm 64.1 in
Length 4899 mm 192.9 in
Width 1860 mm 73.2 in
Height 1464 mm 57.6 in
Length:wheelbase ratio 1.65
Ground clearance 141 mm 5.6 in
Kerb weight 1760 kg

1986 BMW 730i dimensions & weight

Wheelbase 2832 mm 111.5 in
Track front 1527 mm 60.1 in
rear 1549 mm 61 in
Length 4910 mm 193.3 in
Width 1845 mm 72.6 in
Height 1411 mm 55.6 in
Length:wheelbase ratio 1.73
Ground clearance
Kerb weight 1600 kg 3527 lb

[B7]

Rest my case. A 5 is almost as long as an e32 7 and fatter and wider

[cecotto479]

Nothing to do with it being pig ugly compared to the previous model :mad:

.....the frog-eyed one was just sh1t in comparison.

It wasn't you know? It was actually a great car. Far better than its predecessor. It was just so ugly that very, very few people got the chance to find out how good it was.

I've had both and the Scorpio really was the better.

[capri_rob]

I haven't owned either but I drove loads of both when I worked at Ford in the mid 90's - my stand out memory of the "new" scorpio was that the 2.0 auto was one of the worst cars I've ever driven - it was enough to put me off Autoboxes for life - on kickdown the things just used to scream like mad with no appreciable increase in speed. Terrible turds.

The 24v "Cosworth" predecessor however also holds a special place in my heart as it was in one of these chariots I went the fastest I've ever been in a car - 145mph - on a private road of course They looked good, great spec and went like stink

Of course you could have the "new" scorpio with the 2.9 donk but it just wasn't the same

[cecotto479]

But did you drive a 2.0 auto version of the Mk3 Granada?

Awful - particularly about town - couldn't decide on a gear and stay in it. Up. Down. Up. Down. Constantly.

24v Pre Scorpio "Scorpio" was a weapon though and there wasn't a better car in the later range. Comparing that to a later 2.0 auto is always going to favour the earlier car.

The build, finish, equipment and ride of the bug eye cars was, in my view, far better than the Mk3.

Just a pity it was sooooo ugly.

[capri_rob]

Drove plenty of 2.0 Auto "Scorpio" old shape granada's and whilst they weren't particularly great they weren't stand-out bad either - unlike the bug-eye car. Remember these were the run-out models with the twin cam head which did seem a bit pokier than the old 2.0 single cam Pinto's. I dunno if Ford changed Autobox providers or what between models but I'll never forget thinking how if I'd handed over a big wedge of cash for this top of the range turd, left the dealership and given it the beans I'd be straight round the roundabout up the road and straight back for a refund. Just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one I think

Shame there's virtually none of the 24v cars left - I'd still like one

[bss325i]

The ugly scorpio looked better with the colour matched front grill and smoked lights front and rear that the last of the line ones had.

I rebuilt a 24V cosworth engine from a ugly scorpio after the timing chain tensioner failed causing the chain to slip and bend some valves.

[Andyboy]

The Bug Eyed Scorpio was an utter piece of shit. It was based on a car that wasn't that great in 1985 and only the 24v engine saved it (or did it?). A mate worked in a Ford dealer when they were current and almost every one of them had myriad electrical issues which may have been caused by the water leaks they also suffered.
Trouble is, by the time the BugEyed Monster arrived in 1994 the price difference between all the top end Ford/Vauxhall stuff was only 3 grand or so compared to an E34525i which was of course a proper car. When the E39 came out, it was all over. The Ford had leather that came from the same place that made those £25 leather jackets and other trinkets, but it was a fast depreciating turd sold by some smelly armpit of a Ford dealer - it was never going to succeed.

[B7]

I had Granadas for years ending with a "Granada" Scorpio.

But I drew the line when that ugly bug eyed peice of shit came out. That was it for me. I struggled when the Bangle designs came out in the BMW showrooms but the guy that designed the last scorpios needs castrating with a rusty spoon!

[cecotto479]

Don't disagree about its looks, but the one I had - a 2.3 ("Ultimate", no less) - was a decent car and a vast improvement on a 2.0 auto Granada Mk3 that I owned, but to be fair, rarely drove.

It was an early one though - 86D, I think, so I suppose I'm comparing cars nearly 10 years apart.

[capri_rob]

Yeah an '86 D would have just been the 2.0i Pinto which with an Autobox would never have set the world on fire - the 2.0 in standard form was underpowered in the Capri and even in injected form it was too small to haul a Granada sized shell around.

The one's I'm talking about ( even in 2.0 Twin-cam auto form ) were L & M reg cars fully loaded up with toys - the dealer I worked for used to do all the service & repair work for Hertz at Birmingham Airport so we used to see a wide variety of stuff but the pre-bug Scorpios in 2.0 and 2.9 24v form were really popular.

[madmax1410]

as a current owner of a granada mk3 salloon which ive had since 2009 its the most reliable car ive owned ive only ever had to do cosmetic work! change boot lock/t cut ect..

its a 1990 model the first of the salloon's and in my opinion the best looker of the range especially in cosworth form! my model is a 2.0 dohc manual ghia.

its really showing its age now and is in bad need of a respray but there is very little rust! only on the arches and lower rear left sill. the paint is faded and there are a good few battle scars but ill never sell her!

regarding the bug eye models they were ugly as sin! and should of never of went to production but driving wise ect.. ive heard they are great cars with the 16v i4 engine there alot more powerfull than the mk3 with better mpg also! the hydralic clutch is also something i would like to the cable used on the mk3!