My P1

[Jhonno]

So the damage occured above 70ish.. Possibly on more throttle-ish as well...

Did you not kill the ignition straight away?

[pacerpete]

Go on Dan, scare us 'anchor w4nkers' and tell us how many shekels it is going to cost to get it sorted ? M20/M30 FTW !

[Felix79]

LOL Pete , it's a pretty hefty bill but not as bad as it could have I guess , obviously nothing left to rebuild so it's going to the weighbridge in the sky.

The replacement engine is the one I mentioned earlier in the thread , much strong internals and put together by someone who knows their engines , unlike Subaru that's for sure.

While the engine is out the clutch is also being done and a few other bits have needed replacing due to the fire. They are also cleaning the whole bay today as you would expect it was rank with all the oil , burnt stuff and water


Juno - It happen pretty quick but as soon as the engine fault light came on I was braking hard and was pulling into a layby, which was really close and then as I was just entering things went mega bad. Was stuck in the middle and the Police shut the layby untill the car was recovered.

Thing is with the shot ratios on the car , if you boot it while on boost , well it's a experience that puts a grin on your face but you'll end up going over the speed limet pretty quickly. Oxford is not car friendly ( Pete can comfirm this ) and the roads are so shockingly bad here that you would just wreck the wheels with the potholes here. Also the shite chippings they use just ruins the front paintwork.

[Andyboy]

Bad luck Dan, that's just horrible.

The problem with Subarus is that the engines were only just strong enough for standard power. Whereas the Sierra Cosworth engine was basically strong enough for twice the standard power with only basic mods and upgrades (head gasket, head studs etc), the Subaru engine just isn't. My mate blew his up twice. The last time was showing off whilst accelerating away from my £350 V8 530i on the M5. A puff of smoke, power loss and a really nasty rattling knock meant crankshaft number 3 was toast. He sold it spares or repair. Utter crap imo.

In one of your pics it looks like there is oil and water mixing. I wouldn't rule out a major head gasket failure resulting in a bore full of coolant, a hydraulic lock at speed and broken rods.

P.S - your spelling/grammar is really coming on Mate - I've noticed a huge improvement!

[Felix79]

Thank you Andy

The mixing of oil and water would be from when the fire service, when they were putting the fire out , and the added fact the car was left festering away for a few weeks , only made things worse.

The new setup has alot of forged parts and nitrided bits which should make a stronger more reliable setup. The new head gaskets on the new engine are Cosworth ones , so with the STi 9 bits I hope to be onto a winner.


The Cosworth and the engines Skyline engines seem to be able to be tuned to a insaine amount of power , only using standard internals , some of the cars at Japfest were running serious bhp , with only standard internals.

[daimlerman]

P.S - your spelling/grammar is really coming on Mate - I've noticed a huge improvement!

Did'nt last long,though,Andy!

Dan,I really feel your pain...never blown a car engine in this way,but some years back a 'popped' a Scania truck turbo that spread it's guts throughout the engine...my employer was not very happy...he found parts of the turbo in three out of six cylinders...but the re-built motor was a great improvement,the fully frieghted truck would hold it speed on almost all gradients!

[Felix79]

Scooby Projects , said it the worse on they had ever seen. One rod had snapped and twisted some 90 degrees

It's common for the P1's to lose the bottom end due to an issue with the mapping. When the new block was installed by Subaru they should have done a remap. The cars orginally are set for 100RON petrol and use knock correction to adjust to the lower grade fuel over here. The car will have a remap done to ensure there are no more possible faults and to prevent any uneeded risks with the fueling.

[Kos]

as i was looking at the pics is aid to my brother in law, i bet it was pinking to fuck before that happened , did you not hear it ? you now now that the mapping on these is essential as you've put it up in your last post

quality engine destruction that, made my day looking at the pics

[Felix79]

No pinking or piston slap , which is a common warning on these. The car was always warmed up and the turbo timer was set to allow it to cool down. I've got extra gauges and the oil pressure and both the temps were fine. Not sure if I copy the pic over , but on one of the valves there all these tiny dents which the owner of SP believes is debris that has worked it way there. But the warranty change was some time and 30k ago , last oil change was done Jan by the main dealer. I've done 4500 miles in it and it was between intivals.

I just feel sorry for the poor sod who was stripping it , but everyone on the car forums I use said it's a impressive blow.

The whole mapping issue is one of , if not the biggest flaws with the P1. At least it will be mapped to Optimax , and it's easy to get 99RON these days , I'm hopefully going to be up there to see it all being done. I also hope to learn a few more things from the team there.

Next job after this is done is upgrade the brakes , atm it's on the prodrove pack but been told they are only slightly better than the STi ones , so been looking into getting the Brembo pack you would find one the blob eye and hawk eye Impreza's , but may need to go from the 17"s to 18"s to accommodate it.

[Kos]

dan,

it was pinking and you didnt hear it, or you have no idea what it sounds like.

the car was running too much boost, and not mapped right because some one played with it not because subaru got it wrong.


the little dents i spotted, and thats a sign of pinking. warmed up or not would not have helped but your ears could have

its certainly costing you more than your e30 lol

[spook]

How does a student afford all this Dan

Bad news on the engine blowing up fella.

[Kos]

How does a student afford all this Dan

Bad news on the engine blowing up fella.

by nicking plasmas from croydon high street and raiding the apple store lol

[Felix79]

Been working for the Amublance service It department for about 5 or so months through my work placement. So had some money saved up , which is being used on this. Half and half on the student thing as I'm wanting to move away from Oxford and I've obtained my qualifaction for a foundation degree and I don't see much gain now in doing an extra 18 months for the full hons.


Kos , the boost had not been altered it was still running the correct PSI/Barr , Pinking / knocking from the mix would be directly linked to the mix being off and the running temp would also be off becuase of this. Also there been enough people who know these cars and these types of engine to have heard it themselves when then engines been running. Your not going to beliave much of what I type , and as you have already clearly put , you will post where and what you please , so it's a stalemate for that.

Should have some more info and update next week as the engine bay was being cleannd and prepped today and the install will happen tuesday/wens. Can't remember when the mapper comes in but I will add more pics when they come to me.

[Felix79]

How does a student afford all this Dan

Bad news on the engine blowing up fella.

by nicking plasmas from croydon high street and raiding the apple store lol

Oh yes , gotta love my baseball caps and burberry. Was a bloody long bus journey all the way back up to Oxford

[Jon_Bmw]

What revs were you using shortly before it blew?

It's quite an impressive blow up with a rod out the side. We had an ej20 blow up not too long ago that was due to a mechanical over rev. Even that one the rods held on to the crank although this was a proper steel engine. Almost every valve head didn't hang to their stems after being twatted by the pistons. It was carnage in there and nothing was saveable as the block had already been bored


We reckon the owners son must have given it around 12k on the motorway. EEK. Imagine explaining that one!

[Kos]

Pinking is only heard under load

Do you know what it sounds like?

With a failure that spectacular there must have been a warning sign of some sort unless you just over reved it

[Felix79]

What revs were you using shortly before it blew?

It's quite an impressive blow up with a rod out the side. We had an ej20 blow up not too long ago that was due to a mechanical over rev. Even that one the rods held on to the crank although this was a proper steel engine. Almost every valve head didn't hang to their stems after being twatted by the pistons. It was carnage in there and nothing was saveable as the block had already been bored


We reckon the owners son must have given it around 12k on the motorway. EEK. Imagine explaining that one!

I didn't take much pass 5500-6500 rpm and I didn't drop down a gear , it was in 5th gear and just letting it go back down to 3500 pm which is 80 in mine. So I was still a long way off the red line or high revs.

Kos , the way I would explain it would be like it sounds like something metalic is working it's way lose , like say a washer ratteling on a thread. I know it's not the best description , but only way I can put it into words.

The Check Engine light came on , and I then hit the brakes as there was a layby near , then a huge plume of smoke came out , followed by the oil light ,smoke from the engine fire and by the time I was in the layby the most nasty grinding meatle on meatle noises happend.

I'm not sure if its a good or bad habbit I have , but when slowing down from faster speeds I do normally let the engine do a lot of the breaking as I shift down through the gears , again it only goes to 5k to 6k rpm. Even then I would either blip before going down or let the gear in gentally rather than just dropping it.

I should get a more detailed ( excuse pun ) break down of what happend by the end of the week when I collect it.

[Kos]

so max rpm in 5th gear, you wouldnt have heard the pinking, not with the wind noise or the exhaust noise

[Felix79]

That is actually one big conern Kos , that with the noise that is produced would have drowned any pinking out ( why is it called pinking? ). With regards to that valve , a fragment did come out of the chamber when it was being stripped. I have asked about it since you raised it , so untill the map this Friday they will not be able to give a 100% answer.

Anyway someone was at the workshop yesterday to check up on his build and he took a few pics of the workshop. Mines the one up in the air with the plate ending JDA






It does give me confidence by all the P1's and Impreza's that they work on.

The one in the last pic with the black wheels is currently having a 700bhp build done

[B7]

Looks to me Dan like thats an advert why not to buy one!!! That company look like they are about to have the biggest recruitment drive in the double dip recession!

Have to say mate, this will bankrupt an already stretched student mate! I'd be getting it running and getting shot. Never seen the attraction TBO!

[Kos]

but under load in 4th gear at say 3500 rpm it would have been heard. your car has probably been doing it since you got it

i've heard it on my 530i sport when it was on regular unleaded, most people wont know the noise is even if they hear it

to drive a car like this needs one of the following

1: a clear understanding of the car you are driving and mechanical understanding of it
2: a cast iron warranty
3: good close friends in the trade who know the cars and will look after them for you

[pacerpete]

but under load in 4th gear at say 3500 rpm it would have been heard. your car has probably been doing it since you got it

i've heard it on my 530i sport when it was on regular unleaded, most people wont know the noise is even if they hear it

to drive a car like this needs one of the following

1: a clear understanding of the car you are driving and mechanical understanding of it
2: a cast iron warranty
3: good close friends in the trade who know the cars and will look after them for you

Kos, you forgot 4 : A HPI TEST

[Andyboy]

but under load in 4th gear at say 3500 rpm it would have been heard. your car has probably been doing it since you got it

i've heard it on my 530i sport when it was on regular unleaded, most people wont know the noise is even if they hear it

to drive a car like this needs one of the following

1: a clear understanding of the car you are driving and mechanical understanding of it
2: a cast iron warranty
3: good close friends in the trade who know the cars and will look after them for you

Kos, you forgot 4 : A HPI TEST

Not a bit of Cat C action surely??

[Kos]

but under load in 4th gear at say 3500 rpm it would have been heard. your car has probably been doing it since you got it

i've heard it on my 530i sport when it was on regular unleaded, most people wont know the noise is even if they hear it

to drive a car like this needs one of the following

1: a clear understanding of the car you are driving and mechanical understanding of it
2: a cast iron warranty
3: good close friends in the trade who know the cars and will look after them for you

Kos, you forgot 4 : A HPI TEST

Not a bit of Cat C action surely??

LoL
But it's true, proof of a shells/cars legitimacy is usually a good
idea and thing to have

[Jhonno]

I cannot believe how much carnage was done for only being at 3.5k..

[e30topless]

a sad reminder why i would never own one of these self destructing rice turds... your lucky it lasted this long ! how many miles did you get out of it before it spat a few pistons ?

my money is on the gearbox and or diff shitting themselves once the new donk is back in there, and in turn the new engine..

you should have stuck it out with the C1 at least you would have had a worthwhile chariot at the end, throw 10k at this and it might still be worth 2k when your done ?

[Felix79]

Ok will start with Trev's

The workshop is pretty full because they do alot of race/track day builds and alot of people are modding the engines on these. But your right in saying there are a lot of horror stories with the Impreza , and now you can pick up the classic and bug eye shape for such little money , there are a very large number of badly maintained car on the market now , add the fact the massive amount that were grey imports ( loads still get shipped over still ) it's hard to tell the service history for sure.


Topless , I can apreiate not being found of Jap cars , and this like you said is a real off putter. The engine ( bottom end ) and turbo had done 30,000 miles from when they were done under the Subaru warrenty. On Scoobynet there is a very large sticky about people who have had blown up engines with the 2.5's ( I think 09 onwards ). Some people are only getting 15k and they are letting go. Since I got the car in April I had done about 5000 miles in it ( I think I put that earlier )

With regards to me giving up the Alpina an the money spent. If this was one of the normal say WRX STi in a number of the generations , the premium would be very low and a job like this would not make any sense to undertake. While the P1 will not be worth as much as the much coveted 22B they can still take a fair bit more than any other UK spec Impreza of the same age.

With the Alpina and not putting the money into I just didn't want to go down that route , and as I was using the P1 more and more , every time I went into the C2 I just didn't enjoy it like I did before xmas. I just wanted to try something different , but I still wanted it to be a coupe/2 door shell. I like guess most Impreza owners , I got a liking for the cars back when McRaie and Burns were racing for the works team in the 90's and the early 00's.

The diffs and gearbox are one of the strong areas on the P1 , unlike the Jap 2 door's Prodrive removed the electronic diff ( ECDC ) and replaced it with conventional diffs with a 60/40 split. The gear box was also different , with longer ratios than found on the Jap vertions. Common fault is that 4th gear can get tricky to select , but is a simple fix. After it's stint as the press car , pro-drive rebuild the gearbox ( about 70,000 miles ago ). When the car had it's inspection , the diffs and box came back as not having any leaks and when driving they were/are very quiet.

KoS a few to answer from you , I was not the only driver of the car , my old man did drive it a bit , and he too has said that he never heard any pinking comming from it , again it was not raised during it's inspection , also there was no tell tail knocking from the bottom.

I'm moving away from Oxford in the near future and luckily , down where I am going I have a good friend who is a full time mechanic and he's happy to help , and he's got the knowledge of dealing with tuned cars too. This is a massive improvement from the situation in Oxford , as the cloest person who I could trust and rely on was Pete some 45-50 miles away

Jhonno , I was winding the down to 4500-3500 when I noticed the warning light , smoke , fire. The really nasty crunch happend just as I was close to a stop. This is what I remember , as it happend about 5 or so weeks ago , and there has been alot going on.

Oh and Pete's very right about the HPI being a must , there are a massive amount of cars like these that do a bit of off roading , they are a very high theift threat and do tend to get into alot of acidents.

Also I was glad I got quotes for the insurance for the P1 and WRX STi Type-R before I paid any money out for one. On the Scooby forums too many people buy these cars and then have to sell them because they can't insure it.

[bss325i]

The damage to the engine in the pictures is not indicative of and engine that has been "pinking" or "pinging".

Pinking is normally heard when an engine is running lean for what ever reason and combustion temperatures will be excessively high which will cause pistons to melt or valves to burn.

There is no signs of this in the pictures posted.

From what i can make out, a bottom end failure has occurred, possibly a hydrolic lock.

[Kos]

baz,

pinking could have been cause by it running lean, too much timing, crap fuel. the result of this is combustion detonation happening before the piston hitting tdc, the force of this will cause a bottom end to let go as this one has, simply because the piston is being forced back when its still being mechanically moved up to tdc.

looking at the pistons that are still in the block, you can see damage on the crown of the piston very similar to the damage pinking causes.

any pics of the spark plugs ? all 4 chambers and slugs ?

[Felix79]

All the plugs were clean , as one possiblity was the tip of one could have fallen off into the chamber.

If you read the blurb which the guy put with the pics , the "blowing" made the rods go up and hit the vales with a very violent force , after all it smashed two of the rods with enouch force to twist and break them.

These are the other pics that were taken for me














That's the ones I didn't copy over orginally. I'm not sure if Keith does requests lol , but I'll ask him if there were any done of the plugs and slugs. He did say on the phone that they were perfectly fine and gapped correctly , and nothing he saw with them indicated any cause for the engine letting go.

The quality of fuel in it was Shell V-Power and a few fill up's before it was using Tescos Momentom , both these fuels are 99RON and the worse petrol put in it was BP Ultimate 97RON , and that was on my way home when I first got the car.

Also with a lean mixture , would the over run still be popping and crackeling from spent fuel ignighting in the exhuast?

[B7]

If you look at the 1st picture of the piston crown, yes there appears to be signs of heavy pinking but my moneys on that occured in it's final death throws as it's very localised and very recent (i.e. theres also metal peices imbedded in the same area which will confused matters).

I'd be forgetting what caused it and concentrating on building a STANDARD engine on STANDARD management to ensure you have some kind of reliability. It's fairly obvious to me that these cars obviously cannot handle the upgrades and also suffer from the "too many specialists all suggesting different things" syndrome! As diid the Cosworths back in the day.

[Andyboy]

I can see a bore with light rust - the sure fire sign of water. My best guess is still head gasket failure, a piston sucking into a load of water, hydraulic lock and then a broken rod.

[Felix79]

Ineed Trev that is the ultimate aim of the replacement. It uses a mix for fordged parts and nitrided parts like the crank with is an STi version 9. It's got stronger and higher quality bearings and it will be mapped to run on 99ron petrol. Keith the owner is like Pete and Barry , he knows so much about these cars and hsas a proven track record. He came reconmended by loads of different people and I have seen his work and it is top quality. Trying to avoid the situation I had with the C2 , where I just couldn't get a decent quality of service untill I finally went to Pete and Barry.

With the fire and destruction ( plus the water ) everything looks an utter mess , and the heat from all of this can have effected how things look. It's all in bits and thankfully I'm not going to be stuck with it being all apart waiting to be rebuilt/refurbed. The last thing I would want or need is it being left as some kind of unfished project/build. It's going to be finished this weekend and I will be able to drive it again and enjoy having a working car.

[bss325i]

baz,

pinking could have been cause by it running lean, too much timing, crap fuel. the result of this is combustion detonation happening before the piston hitting tdc, the force of this will cause a bottom end to let go as this one has, simply because the piston is being forced back when its still being mechanically moved up to tdc.

looking at the pistons that are still in the block, you can see damage on the crown of the piston very similar to the damage pinking causes.

Kos,

I im fully aware of what pre-ignition (the correct term) is and its effects so do not need a regurgitated google/wikipdia explanation of what it is.

The forces exerted upon the piston would not be enough to have caused that damage in the pictures and the damage you mention on one of the piston crowns looks like the result of debris impacting the piston in that cylinder.

Another sign that its unlikely to be pinking to have caused the engine failure is the condition and colour of the spark plug electrodes. They still retain their shape, Dan said the guy working on the car checked the plug gaps and they were all ok and finally the colour indicates a good combustion mixture and burn. If the engine has been pinking then the plugs would have been one of the first things to be in trouble

My money is still on a major mechanical failure.

[daimlerman]

Must admit,this sorry tale does start to make E36 M3 very tempting!

Similar 'real world' performance,but pretty much idiot-proof oily bits.....