M50 engined Capri

General car chat - NO SELLING !!!

Moderator: martauto

Post Reply
sean_318i
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:12 am

Hi all,

I know some of you won’t approve but I'm going to post up some of my progress anyway.
I got a customer two weeks ago with some interesting ideas for a fun weekend and drift car.
Here’s what he turned up with.
Image
Image

A nice clean Capri shell with very little rust and a recent respray.
It came fitted with this.
Image
Image

It’s a M52b20 from a e39. It’s not ideal but it did provide a good base to work from.
I spent a while figuring out what to do with this. I came to the obvious conclusion that a b25 is a better proposition.
The main reasons for this were power, interchangeability and a simpler ews system.

The e39 uses ews 3 and it’s a bit more complicated than the ews 2 we all know and love. :roll:

The e39 also doesn't have an x20 plug (the big round one that we usually cut off) like we're used to. Because I envision this engine will have a hard life I wanted to make it as simple a job as possible to swap engines. That meant a different engine loom.
Image
This one's from an e36 325i Auto.

I stuck it on the m52 with a m50 Manifold to check it for fit.
Image
Image

This is where the magic happens, it’s not much but I've been building unusual conversions and race cars in here since age 12.
Image

And this is my shunter, I don't use it to shunt things in spite of its looks. I just use it to tow cars up the gentle slope leading out of the garage when I want to turn them around.
Image

Tune in next time when we put a bit more of an e30 spin on this blue oval.

Sean

Oh ya let the flaming begin :P
Image
jmc330i
Engaged to the E30 Zone
Engaged to the E30 Zone
Posts: 6621
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Somerset

Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:48 am

That's gunna be fun 8)
I would probably have gone for a modern V6 (from a Vaux Omega for example) to keep the weight further back, but I guess for a drift car more weight over the front axle doesn't matter.

No flaming need as far as I can see, you're giving the old Ford a new lease of life, with a much better engine :D
James
'91 325i Sport
'93 318i touring 16v
Zerotonine
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Swindon

Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:56 am

Any more pictures of the capri? Did it get finished or just a couple of bits stuck to it?
I would like to know more!
Image
Finally promoted to Regular! Only took 7 years...
capri_rob
Married to the E30 Zone
Married to the E30 Zone
Posts: 9681
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: South Staffordshire

Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:09 am

Nice work 8)
Image

e30topless said : Proper BMW's have 4 headlights, last of the run was the E30 and E34/E32 anything after that is just complete shite
e30-EVN
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: S.Wales

Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:16 pm

nice mate..

a friend of mine has put a rotery engine from an rx7 in his capri. its different thats for sure 8)
A 2 door e30 with 8 cylinders, what could be better winkeye :D
nickso
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 4396
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Go do that voodoo that you do so welllllllll!!

Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:12 pm

No flames here....I will punt an M52 into a MK1 Granny one day....finding a granny worth punting is a mission on it's own though.

Look forward to some more updates. 8)
Image

'88 e30 328i M52 track bint.
sean_318i
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:54 pm

Glad I'm getting some positive feedback on this project.

The reason we chose an m50 was more for convenience than anything else we already had the gearbox. The prop had been shortened, we had the right sump and the engine mounts were made. I knew how to wire it up and the zone could help out if I ran into trouble. Also these things can make lots of power with a turbo if needed in the future. Getting the mass as far back as possible is a consideration we will wait and see how it works out.

The Capri isn't finished yet it's an ongoing project.

A wankel engine, now that would improve the weight distribution no end, a bit thin on the ground over here though :cry:

Yea I quite like the old fords but most of the engines are sh1t by comparison to some of what bmw has to offer.

Sean
Image
HairyScreech
Engaged to the E30 Zone
Engaged to the E30 Zone
Posts: 6265
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:00 pm

Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:09 am

There is a blue capri floating about with an m50 engine, imo its a very nice conversion compared to the shit other people have bolted in them.
2.8 development thread http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=170822

m3.3.1 m20 thread - now running, chip needed - any volunteers?
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... =viewtopic&
sean_318i
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:03 am

Update

So had the engine loom all laid out ready to splice the X20 plug into the Capri's car loom. The only problem was it didn't have any :cry:

The owner had cut it into three sections when stripping the car to fit the M52. Some of the loom was rolled up in the boot along with most of an e39 car loom.
Image

I figured this was going to be a major ballache to figure out especially when I had no idea where all the plugs had to go.
So I figured I would fit a whole new car loom, one that I was familiar enough with and that had readily available wiring diagrams.
Image
Can you guess what it is yet?
Image

Yes it's almost an entire car loom from a 1988 325i touring.
Image

This one.
Image
Image
As you can see I haven't fragged a perfectly good touring for this project though it did have some nice bits.

1988, and 325i touring are pretty significant for this loom because it’s one of the most complicated looms fitted to an e30.
This one had heated seats, check control and front fogs added to the options list. Tourings also have the electrics for rear wash wipe and it seems that bmw integrated the abs system into the main car loom for this model too.
The thing that caused the most confusion though was the daytime running lights (only used in 1988 and 1989) more on that later.
It would have been far simpler to start with something like a poverty spec 316i 2 door but I didn't have one of those broken.

So I removed each plug from the donor car and then put a numbered label on the wire. I wrote what each number corresponded to in a notebook. After a total of 61 plugs and a dash removal we were able to pull the main car loom through the bulkhead grommet under the fusebox. I laid it all out on the driveway correctly orientated next to my 325i.
Image

The next step was to start removing everything that wasn't needed. Start by unwrapping the tape and removing each unnecessary plug by following the wires to their origin...
Image
Snip snip
Image

That little lot was the abs, after numerous hours work...
Image
..the pile had grown to this.
Image

To be honest after the abs and its bulky plugs are removed the rest isn't worth the effort it takes.

The next step was to cut off the C101 and solder on an X20 to the fusebox. This is the opposite approach to what many people do but my rationale is this car will never see an e30 engine so use the plug which is most suited to the engine range it will use :wink:
Image

The last step was to tape up all the junctions and lay it out with the components attached.
Image

And that’s the main car loom, next the engine loom.
Image

Seán
Image
sean_318i
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:10 am

Yea the M50 is about 30bhp more than the turd of a 2.8 it replaces and probably about a third lighter, less thirsty and it won't sh1t itself every time it goes over 4000rpm.
Image
sean_318i
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:36 am

Engine loom

Only one real issue here and it’s not a biggie. This loom came from an auto so it had two X20 type connectors and a TPS with two 3 pin plugs.
They are on the left of this photo (the loom is upside-down) the one on the right is the diagnostic connector.
Image
And here is where they are in the car.
Image

One of the connectors is the X20 and connects to the fusebox and the other connects to the autobox loom (I think).
Anyway the one with most of the pins populated is the x20 leave that alone, peel back the rubber boot on the other and follow the wires back through the plastic junction box.
Image

About 5 wires lead directly to the engine ecu and I just clipped these a few inches from the ecu connector after verifying they weren't spliced into anything else.
The other three wires lead directly to the second plug on the TPS via 3 dirty big splices. I cut the splices out and pulled the plugs from either end. That should be the end of the auto box.

There wasn't much else to do to the engine loom, no C101 to swap no additional wires for oil level sensor (because I removed all traces of the check control unit from the car loom) it already had a brown sensor for the dash temperature.

The X20 was routed through the bulkhead because I want to mount the fusebox in the upper passenger footwell. I'll use an e30 relay mount to mount the DME, o2 Heater and Fuel pump relays on the inner wing too.
Image
The little red wire is going through the bulkhead too to supply the fusebox with battery power (bolted to the bottom of the circuit board).

On the driver’s side I have mounted the diagnostic plug and connected the main power supply to the rear mounted battery via an e36 battery junction salvaged from another engine conversion. No pics at the moment though.
Image

The ecu plug reached through a conveniently located hole on the bulkhead to reach into the driver’s side footwell much like an e30.
Image

I like to use the four cylinder wiring cover in e30 engine swaps for a proper OEM look but as the Capri doesn't have the provision for mounting these, the stock e36 junction box seems to fill the role perfectly. That’s a lot of extra work avoided thankfully. 8)
Image

That’s enough for now :rock:

Seán
Image
BATTS91
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 11:00 pm
Location: clacton on sea essex

Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:58 am

Now this is a cool project , i like alot and im a sucker for old fords :p

Brilliant work by the way
capri_rob
Married to the E30 Zone
Married to the E30 Zone
Posts: 9681
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: South Staffordshire

Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:07 am

Nice work with that wiring - I wouldnt have fancied sorting that lot out !
Image

e30topless said : Proper BMW's have 4 headlights, last of the run was the E30 and E34/E32 anything after that is just complete shite
sean_318i
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:02 pm

Thanks for all the positive comments. Sorting out the wiring was a royal pain and it’s not finished yet.

Most of this was done with the m52 engine in place and Mark the car’s owner had taken some time off work to give a hand fitting the m50 and finishing off gearbox mounts etc.

We decided we were going to use an m20 flywheel starter and clutch because the m52s dual mass flywheel was too heavy and would have a short life if the car was used for drifting.

So I picked this up from my friend. Thanks Neil
Image

It's an m20 facelift flywheel.
And there’s a step on the back that must be machined off in order to clear m50/m52 sumps.
Image

The easiest way to remove the step is to use a lathe. Another friend Dave_M3 owns this one.
Image
It’s a solid old machine but it needs some repairs and maintenance so it takes a long time to get anything done.

Dave made a faceplate using the end of an old crankshaft so I bolted the flywheel on backwards...
Image

..and removed the step.
Image

I figured while I was at it I should shave a few extra kilos off as well. The thinnest part of the stock flywheel the rusty part in this photo is 10mm thick, so I brought the rest of the flywheel to this thickness.
Image

The flywheel now weighs about 5.9kg. Some people take more off the edge closest the ring gear and get them down to about 5.3kg but I prefer to err on the side of safety. The danger is if you undermine the ring gear while also reducing the flywheel's heat capacity the chances of failure also increase. I've seen the results of exploding flywheels first hand so it’s something I’m keen to avoid.
Image

And that’s the flywheel done allowing Mark to continue on with fitting the engine.

Seán
Image
sean_318i
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:06 am

A Little thread update...

So Mark (the car’s owner) set about fitting the m50 b25 in place of the m52.
Image

He ran into some problems with the engine mounts, the mounts he fabricated for the e39 m52 wouldn't line up with the e34 m50's mounting holes. :cry:
So some new plates were fabricated.
Image
Image

He had also measured the prop length and joined the e39 front section to the Capri middle.

Mark also finished off the gearbox mount with some extra bracing which was needed.
Image

This all shifted the engine about an inch further back which would make the inlet manifold much closer to the bulkhead.
Image

Giving loads of room for the e39 rad once the battery tray was removed and slam panel was trimmed.
Image
We continued the e30 theme by using an e30 top rad mounting.

More Updates soon
Seán
Image
BATTS91
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 11:00 pm
Location: clacton on sea essex

Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:32 pm

Hows this coming along?
TPS
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 13121
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: Hampshire

Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:19 am

This is very interesting, looking forward to seeing the updates!
Image
1991 325i Touring Alpine White II
1994 318i Touring Sterling Silver
Post Reply