My 320ise S62.

[davethegoat]

I had to have a proper sit down for a little while after I squished the finger Dan! There must be a bit of floating bone still in there as it feels like there's a pea in there.

If that happened every time Rav, the world would be a pretty quiet place eh!

Cheers Will! Haha! It really does sound very manly! I looked for your build thread a while back (which I saw a long while ago) and couldn't find it. Linky please!

Did you get the video working Glenn? It works fine for me still. I've just got a white box on your post Topless! Cheers though!

dave what brake discs are you running on the rear? - e46 m3?

I ve got a set of these caliper I need to fit over christmas!

Somehow I missed your post Crossie. I moved the trailing caliper mount on the arm, and used 120d hubs and (300mm) discs. Check a couple of pages back, it's all there. The pads do have some overhang, which isn't perfect. I'll more than likely end up with 315mm ish discs and an sleeved down handbrake "drum" in the future.

Bloody Christmas. I wanna go and work on my car!

Cheers!

[glenn]

Did you get the video working Glenn? It works fine for me still. I've just got a white box on your post Topless! Cheers though!

no dave..
i can only see a white box on your post steve,

only around half the vid's on youtube seem to work for me
i must need to download something?

[Jimbob]

Try downloading Flash again Glenn:
http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/

[glenn]

Try downloading Flash again Glenn:
http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/

that seems to have done the trick jim, thanks

sounds awesome dave
i bet your itching to go for a spin?

[davethegoat]

It does sound naughty eh Glenn! There are still a good few bits and bobs to do yet, but yep, I can't wait!

Thanks for fixing the link Mr Topless!

[davethegoat]

Well, I've got a fair few bits and pieces done on the car, a fair bit of boring tidying up things, bits of wiring, that sort of thing.
I made a sub loom for the oil temperature and pressure guages:



Wired up a fan switch and relay:



James rubbed back, and skimmed the rear arches:



Here's an arch with a base coat:


I popped off the front wings which went through the same process. I'm still surprised at how well the arches come out! :



I'll be doing a few more odds and sods over the next couple of days, then I'm off to do some controlled falling (or snowboarding ) for a bit, so there might be another dry spell as far as updates are concerned.

Cheers! DtG.

[Duckmann]

They look really good those arches, good job

[davethegoat]

Thanks Duckmann.
The wings are now in place, the wiring in the engine bay is just about finished, and the car has moved house via a very slippery yard. It's also grown a front lip.. Getting there now!:



Cheers!

[Jonsku]

Looking very good! There's something special in white E30 + S62, makes it extremely tempting ..

[makman]

Just spent a few hours reading all of this and it genuinly is epic.

[davethegoat]

Cheers Will!

Is there a clue to as what you'll be doing next Jonsku??

Thanks Makman! As (I think) I've said before, positive comments on here really help with enthusiasm! (especially in this poxy weather!)

Well it's been a while! I've been up mountains in Colarado for a bit. It was so good I grew a snow beard:



Anyhow, I've been back for a bit, and had a fiddle with a few odds and sods.

Huge thanks to Ajay on here for donating his spare halves of steering limiter bushes! I had a touch of a wheel clearance issue on full lock. Cured!:



The heater fan and wiper motor weren't working. After a bit of research and a prod with a multi-meter here and there, I found the heater fan was pretty much siezed. Not a huge surprise really seeing as the car was last taxed 5 years ago! A bit of W.D and a minute moving the fan and it's working perfectly. Perhaps it's a short term fix, but it'll do for now.
I think the wiper motor needs a little more than a squirt of lube. :



I have a used one on its way from bmwe30mtech on here.

I fancied doing something which wouldn't take much (if any) brain power. I'd removed the bonnet insulation (which was close to being dust) ages ago. Handily, the bonnet was covered in minging adhesive which had been offending me for a long time:



After a bit (ok, a fair bit) of action with brake cleaner and a sharp blade, it looked like this:



After a de-grease:



Seeing as engine bay heat is bad, and black will help the bonnet do a better impression of a heat sink, I got some masking tape out, along with a rattle can full of matt black paint:



More to come... obviously!

P.S. I'm after a few bits and pieces!

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=

Cheers! Dave.

[davethegoat]

I'm half way through some stuff at the moment, but have managed to grab enough time to get a few bits finished.
Like a spoon, I hadn't fitted the front anti-roll bar when I took the car down to James's place for the exhausts. As such, there was a small clearance problem. (I still can't believe I did that. )
Anywho, I got a decent(ish) deal on a set of Whiteline's anti-roll bars and some E36 Powerflex black bushes. I went for the 24mm front bar, which (attached directly to the front legs), I'm hoping won't be too stiff! The (E36) bush clamps had to be modified slightly and are now mounted using the rear front crossmember mounting point. (Modified one above):



I spaced them for more clearance using a pair of these and a couple of spacers on the rear mount:



They now fit like this:



A set of drop links also arrived:



The turnbuckles are made of steel, so are pretty lumpy! I'll replace them with a set of aluminium chaps at some point. They went on here:



The clutch hose was also a little close to the downpipes for my liking. It more than likely would have been no problem, but I bloody hate having nagging doubts in the back of my head, so I knocked this up out of another bit of motorcycle braided hose which was lying around. I'll pop it on there tomorrow:



I've also been chopping more lumps out of my poor car. I'll post more pics when I've filled them with something.

Cheers! Dave.

[Phill172]

Awesome build.

Do you do all your own machining?

What drop links did you use? Mine are way too long.
Im using hsd's too

[Jozi]

Is the droplink bracket part of the coilover kit or something you made up? Those links look like the ones I found, think mine were from a Subaru Impreza.

[davethegoat]

Cheers Phill.

I've done small bits and pieces of machining, nothing too taxing though. I'd have a ton more lathe and milling tools in an ideal world. I might start knocking up a few bits and pieces when the car's finished.

I got the drop links from fleabay. The rubber boots aren't a perfect fit, but they're good enough for the money.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390568468228? ... 1438.l2649

Hi Jozi. Yep, the bracket comes as part of the coilover kit.

I've spent some time tidying a few things up today, and fitted the clutch hose which I made yesterday. I also got to the bottom of a small problem which has been lingering for a while (one of those "sort it sometime" ones).
Just about every time I've moved the car, the top mounts have adjusted themselves, increasing camber. I'd de-burred the top mounts, replaced the spring washers with serated ones, given the mating faces some emery cloth action, all to no avail.
Anyway, before machining various bits and pieces to keep it all in line, I had a proper look at them again today and found a couple of clues. I'd used the original HSD adjuster bolts. When I removed them today, I noticed that the serated steel washers were showing signs of corrosion. I also noticed that the very bottom of the threads on the bolts were slightly damaged. It turns out that I got my top mounts machined with around 1.5mm less depth than the HSD ones. The bolts were tightening enough to partially flatten the washers, then bottoming out, so they looked tight, but weren't tight enough to apply sufficient clamping force.
I've don't think I've ever cut so little off a few M6 bolts which has had such a big effect!

Cheers! Dave.

[davethegoat]

Ah yes, while I'me here, I have a question about anti-roll bar adjustment.
I've adjusted the roll bar so that it's at 90 degrees to the front leg with the car's weight on it (so at static sag, 1G, or whatever you want to call it).
Is that about right?

Cheers!

[davethegoat]

I've been doing a bit of reserch regarding anti roll bars. The most informative post I found was by a guy called Empty on S14.net:

bar works the same regardless of its angle; adjusting the position of the bar at static ride height so that it runs downhill allows the effective length of the bar to increase slightly under compression of the strut, thereby "softening" the bar, a nice effect when you are in a bumpy brake zone, when the bar runs uphill at static ride height the bar is effectively shortened under compression, slight stiffening the bar;

Now, while I agree with the effects above, I was thinking that stiffening of the bar under load (cornering specifically) would be preferable. Linear spring rates stiffen as more travel is used, motorcycles have, for years, had rising rate linkages, so why would effectively falling rate be desirable with anti roll bars? (Apart from, as mentioned above, bumpy braking zones)

This car set up malarky is all new to me.

TIA for any input. Dave.

[davethegoat]

As I said, I've chopped some more lumps out of the poor old girl. At full travel, the inside of my silly ten inch wide rear wheels were rubbing the shocks. I'd tried spacing the bottom of the shocks inward somewhere around 20mm, but it (annoyingly) wasn't enough. I thought about off setting the top mounts, but after a measure up, they still wouldn't have been quite enough to do the trick. I also thought about buying some nine inch wide wheels, but I've already done enough work to get the tens in to be committed to them. Also, if a proper set of high end coilovers pop up in the future, it won't be a lot of hassle getting them on there.
So, after drilling some spot welds and a bit of a whack, I was left with this mess. :



While I was there, I decided to raise the height of the turrets. As I'm using longer E36 shocks this would sort out the mega amount of suspension droop which I wasn't happy with.
A template of two, some cutting, some welding and some bending later, this had happened:



Then I did some more welding:



From the outside after some rust treatment (to be on the safe side) (I forgot to take a pic when it was all shiney ):



A similar thing happened on the other side resulting in this. I wanted to keep somewhere near the original turret shape so the tank breather pipes can still live there. :



I rust treated both the turrets inside and out. If I could be bothered, I'd look into why even sometimes on new metal, a light dusting of rust appears just about immediately after welding. There are enough nooks and crannies here to justify the better safe than sorry approach. I hate rust.
If the weather holds out, I'll hopefully have some seam sealer and wot not on the turrets in the next day or two. Whoop!

Cheers! Dave.

[Rav335uk]

How much did you raise them by Dave?

[davethegoat]

Errrm... I don't remember Rav! I did the cutting and initial measuring a couple of weeks ago.. I can have a measure up tomorrow if you need to know. The top mounts are inboard by 51mm though if that helps.

[davethegoat]

Rav, I completely forgot to meaure the turret heights. I'll make a note to do it tomorrow.

I've got a few more pits and pieces ticked off the list.
The outside of the turrets are now liberally covered in seam sealant and the fuel tank breather pipes routed (with the aid of a bend from the engine's redundant EGR pipe) to clear the shock. I was going to underseal the turrets and inner wings, but my jet wash has sprung a huge leak, so this will get done when I can give the area a decent clean. i.e, another time. I'll also use some "O" clips for the pipe ends.:



Seeing as the breather pipe ends up with fuel in it under the right circumstances, re-fitting the guard seemed like a good idea. A bit of cutting, bending and drilling later it looked like this:



The inside of the turrets are now wearing some primer. There are a couple of welds which I'll clean up before a final coat of paint which I'll sort out when I've regained some enthusiasm for the din and mess that power tools make. I also made a temporary battery holder which will suffice for the minute (or until I make a decent one). :



The battery now has a new home.



There's been a rear (16mm) anti-roll bar sitting around doing not much for a while, so I though I best fit it. It came with drop links which I'll up-grade for rose joints at a later date. Unsurprisingly for my car, they needed modifying as the roll bar was using a chassis crossmember as a stop near full suspension travel. So, cut:



Weld (with a couple of bits of perfectly fitting tube which I had lying around. )



Here they are with some paint and the bushes re-fitted:



I would have got a picture of it all fitted, but was beaten by the rain. Where's summer gone then?!

Cheers! Dave.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

Quote - ''bar works the same regardless of its angle; adjusting the position of the bar at static ride height so that it runs downhill allows the effective length of.........''

Not sure I understand this and if it being
stated that the ARB works the same regardless
of the angle its incorrect.

There should be no ''pre load or tension''
on a ARB when the car is static and
suspension is at ride height etc.

Drop links should be as upright as possible and
at a right angle to the ARB.

Its a factor that on aftermarket adjustable
suspension that adjustable drop links are usually
required so that any ARB ''pre load'' can be adjusted
out.

ARB functionality should be the same in
both directions, bump and rebound,
which a preloaded ARB is not.

The dynamics of the ARB are such that its the
fine tuning element of your suspension, so
if the ARB is not functioning correctly then nor
is your suspension.

Classic example is E30, wet Track, remove
one side rear ARB Drop link. ie] no rear ARB.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[davethegoat]

Thanks (once again) Gorilla. I need to have a proper think about those angles. It seems that (from what you are saying) the most important thing is to have the drop links at right angles to the bar, which mine are not. Thanks again for taking the time to give advice. I've taken ages to reply/update here! I've been a little pre-ocupied for a while.

I thought I was pretty much ready to roll last week, to the point where last Thursday I got insurance (from Keith Michaels), and even booked an MOT! With the MOT booked for 9am Friday, I thought I'd pop some petrol in the tank and give it a run round the block to make sure everything was tickety boo. As soon as I gave it any throttle, there was a noise sounding like det/knock/pre-ignition/a right f**ker, or whatever you want to call it. My initial reaction was to turn round and put it back up the driveway, but seeing as the fuel tank was just about empty, I thought I'd limp it to the Shell station literally just round the corner to bung some decent fuel in it. It made bugger all difference, so I limped it home and cancelled the MOT.
I'm reasonably sure the noise isn't det as knock control should stop this. (I need to check properly that it's not pulling timing when it's "knocking" which I'll have a go at tomorrow.)
I'm (for now) ruling out a spun big end (which these engines occasionally suffer with) as A), it sounds perfect revving at a stand still, and B), I've tried a few things to find the noise, and the noise has (if anything) got a little less prominant.
I had a known good cam chain tensioner, so I changed that. No difference.
So, I'm thinking vanos. I unplugged the vanos feed wires. No difference.
F**ked about with some other stuff to no effect. (It's late. I might edit properly when I have a little more enthusiasm!)
What did seem to make it slightly better was adjusting the vanos pressure regulator. I didn't want to go to mental with it though as there's already (or meant to be) 1500 psi in there, and I want it to stay "in there"!
Oh yea, to add to my joy, the clutch is slipping. And I don't think the diff is being very limited slip.
I'll update as and when I find out more, but to say I'm not overjoyed and doing cartwheels of joy at the moment would be somewhat of an understatement!

So near, and yet so far!

Cheers. D.

[glenn]

sorry to hear about your issue's with the motor dave.
when you've put time and effort into a swap you just want it to be 'right'
i do know how you feel though dave.....
the v10 seized solid after 10 mins of running
i've got another one to pick up from fabs...its just finding the time to go and get it.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

I feel your pain, it does not help you, but its
a fooking Pitta when you put all the work
in and do it all correctly and still get issues.

Regarding the Clutch slip, the E39 M5 runs
a ''SAC'' Clutch which is not upto the Torque
of the engine.

My E39 M5 suffered terrible Clutch slip, along
with many other woes.
At the time some changed to running the 850 CSi
Clutch etc which cures the slip issues, and there
are many aftermarket solutions out there now.

If your running the std clutch that will be the issue,

On your Engine, is the Vanos Working correctly ?
Bad Vanos will rumble on cold start, and you should
notice a difference if you rev engine with and without
it connected ?

Another item that will cause the issues you have
described is Bad Ignition Coils, which are
Bremi as std on E39 M5 which are well documented
to be troublesome.

Check all your COP and even try and borrow a
known replacement set to be sure.

Glenn- really sorry to hear that hope FAB are
standing on for you ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[glenn]

Glenn- really sorry to hear that hope FAB are
standing on for you ?

hi dan,
yes, fabs have been outstanding.
my current engine came out of a burnt m6, so it was impossible for them to test it. which i knew when i bought it, but with the 'if theres any issues...we'll sort it' which they have/are. i believe some turd rattled the engine, then set fire to it to claim the insurance money.
he's got a 13k s85 (tested) there that i just have to go and collect, but time is what i'm short of at the moment.

dave....
someone more knowledgable than me might correct me if i'm wrong,
but i believe the pressure accumulator has a diaphram inside that contracts at start-up (to the vanos working oil pressure), so doesn't actually hold that much oil. so 'bleeding' it only allows the pressure to drop, until you re-tighten it, then the vanos oil pump recharges it

[davethegoat]

Glenn, that really sucks balls. I guess at least by the sound of things it's going to cost you more in time than money... It's still by no means a good thing though eh. There have been a few highs and lows (and moments when I've questioned why I've been doing this). I know it'll all work out in the end, and it'll be awesome. I'm guessing it's a pretty similar deal for you at the moment. FFS eh!

Thanks Gorilla. At the moment it feels like having a go at doing things half way correctly is vastly over rated!
I was always thinking the clutch was a bit of a gamble. If I hadn't been assured by the seller that it was fine, I wouldn't have bothered. It was always going to be up-graded at some point along with a light(er) weight flywheel. I could have done without spending the money right now TBH, but hey ho, it'll be a worthwhile up-grade I guess.
I've watched a good few vanos related youtube clips and mine sounds like none of them and has no low RPM grumble. When I disconnected it, I just drove down the road, heard it make the same noise, and drove it back up the drive. Doing that, I can't say that it sounded much different. I'll check that again tomorrow if I get the chance. I know where there are a known good set of coils which I can borrow too, which I'll try ASAP.
I swapped the exhaust cam position sensors from side to side today. It made no difference. I should test them properly I suppose! I also popped the crank position sensor out. My first attempt at getting the gearbox in was lifting it off my chest into position. The first two attempts failed, and on the third, I ran completely out of energy, ending up without the strength to get the geabox off my chest and (with the weight of the 'box) close to being unable to breath. For a tiny moment, I thought I might end my days under the car. Anyway, there's a touch of damage on the tip of the crank sensor. I'm wondering if I damaged any of the trigger teeth (or whatever they're called) on the flywheel. Luckily I'll be able to tell when I take it out.
It's a bugger the sensors are so expensive. I'd have a set of CPS's and a crank sensor in there as it seems that they don't always bring up a fault code even when faulty.
I adjusted the vanos pressure with a 6mm allen key on the end of this Glenn.



One thing that is interesting, is that I drove it from stone cold this morning. There was initially just about zero bad noise. If I could tell whether it was because of slightly thicker (cold) oil helping the vanos, not enough heat for it to det/knock, or no heat soak in the sensors/coils, I'd maybe be getting somewhere!

Cheers guys. Dave.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

What Oil are you running ?

The Castrol Edge [M Engine] version
there are 2 so be careful,
is what they should be run on 10-60,
anything else will give very high top end
wear, its on the cold start up that the
wear/damage occurs.

They can sound a bit rattley on other oils
as strange as it is.

Colleague ran his on Motul 20/60 and
it was very quite but it makes the Edge
Oil look cheap !!

I had a lot of problms with the Cam P/S
Bank 2 which is the inner Intake Cam.
Was changed several times by the Dealer
in a very short spell, Car would start ok and
idle but it was a problem.

Good sensors are a vital key and its BMW
only. mostly.

Glenn- Not that it matters in a E30 but a
couple of Dyno Guys I know well, always
say the M6's always make around 30/40 BHP
more on their Dyno's than the M5's, which
is curious.

Still I am sure yours will not be to slow !!!!!

Regards,

The Gorilla,

[davethegoat]

Yep, it's got 10-60 in it. Like you say, it's not cheap. Neither are genuine sensors. As you say, it seems like OE is the only way to go on these.

Cheers. Dave.

[davethegoat]

Well, I tried another known good set of coils. It's not a bad coil.
I also ordered a set of vanos seals which should be with me tomorrow. Touch wood for me please!

I've been looking into clutches a bit and would appreciate some advice!

It seems that an limitless bank account would make choices pretty easy. I haven't got one of those though!
Anyhow, I've decided that while I'm at it, a single mass flywheel is going in there. Bearing that in mind, I'll be needing a sprung disc.
I've been reading reviews of Spec clutches. There seem to be as many bad reviews as good, so I reckon on staying clear of these unless anyone can persuade me otherwise.
Sachs do a "performance" option, but I can't seem to find out whether their solid and sprung disc material are of similar specs.
Then there's the 840 clutch, which is 265mm (std is 240mm). Sachs do one of these which takes 15% more torque than stock.
Also, (as you mentioned Gorilla) there's the 850 clutch which is 280mm, and the basis for a few of the US made kits.
I could obviously get a flywheel machined/manufactured to suit whatever clutch would be best.

So! Whaddyareckon?!

Thanks in advance. Dave.

[turk]

Not sure on the size of the spline on the s62 boxes but what i am doing on my s62 (with getrag 265) is using a custom fly to match an e34 m5 sachs performance with sprung disc.

Im almost vertain your spline is thicker making my point utterly pointless.

But if u could find a sprung 240mm disc that would fit in an e34 m5 clutch pressure plate it would certainly offer enough clamp. One other choice is to have custom friction disc made to suit clutch cover. Too much faff tho if u ask me.

I beleive vac and uuc do decent kits for this application btw.

Hope that was somewhat helpful.

[davethegoat]

Yep, I'm pretty sure the splines are different... The pressure plate might be worth looking into though eh. Ta.

It looks like the 850 disc is man enough reading between the lines here: http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/flywheel/V8/
I'll have to look into pressure plates for this, or perhaps a decent sprung M5 disc to go with the E34 M5 pressure plate.
It would be interesting to know the weight difference between the different sized clutches.

The vac and ucc stuff looks good, but expensive!

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

I would use the 850 CLUTCH.

Its a Motor Factor Part now, ie GSF, Euro etc,
not overly expensive and will do the job.

You need to be able to ''ride'' the Clutch
with V8 Power so anything that is on or
off is fine on Track but utterly useless on
the Road.

The std E39 M5 Clutch slips due to the
''SAC;; so having a Sprung disc to dampen
the noise and a pressure plate with good
clamping force able to hold the Torque
when riding the clutch makes a lot of sense.

Flywheel is down to your budget, but do not
go to light otherwise the idle will suffer.

5Kg's heavier on the rotating mass is not
exactly going to dampen performance but
will make the engine eaiser to live with
in Traffic.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[davethegoat]

I've been looking for an 850 clutch without much joy. Sachs don't have a "performance" option as they do for the stock M5 or 840, although they seem to be available in the US from UUC (at a price!). I guess there'd also be import duty and VAT to pay on that too.
I could get hold of a LUK 850 clutch, though I'm not sure whether that would be much better than the Sachs M5 unit.
I thought about using an E34 M5 pressure plate (as Turk suggested) with a helix or similar sprung hub, but the pressure plate is apparently deeper... or complete helix kit, but having more friction area than this would offer would make more sense.
I'm leaning towards the 265mm 840 Sachs performance clutch kit at the moment.... or the LUK 850...
I had a paddle clutch in a road car a few years ago. As you say GermanGorilla, no thanks!
Has anyone had expierience with the LUK stuff? Am I missing any other decent options??


So, back the engine noise.
I fitted a set of vanos seals. I thought I might have been on to something here. The nearside popped apart no bother. When I took the offside cover off, there were obvious grip marks on the solenoids where someone had been in there before. It took over half an hour to get the solenoids out, so I was hoping to see some damaged seals. The "O" rings, as on the other bank though, looked to be in decent condition. I checked the cam timing which was good and bolted it back together. Drove it. Unsurprisingly, no change to the noise.
I had the plenum off again looking for air leaks and found the start of a split in one of the ICV hoses, but it hadn't split all the way through, so wasn't a problem either. @rse.
I then had a go at downloading INPA, a diagnosis program. With my special computer skillz, and a marked lack of enthusiasm, I gave up in not a great deal of time.
So this morning, Turk was in the 'hood and bought his laptop along for a short while. The good news is that all the sensors checked out good and the vanos (after clearing a fault code from when I disconnected it) had no faults. The one thing that did show up when driving was the knock sensors are being triggered with even the lightest throttle load.
Luckily, the weather was rubbish today, so I had some time for a bit of reserch.
I reckon that it's a big end. It's reasonably common on S62's, so much so that there are a good few M5 owners replacing big ends as a preventative measure on 100k old engines. There are cases of them failing a good deal earlier too. I'm guessing that having fresh (and the correct grade) oil was enough to un-mask a previously unseen (or unheard) problem. The knock sensors are quite possibly picking up the big end noise as "knock" and retarding the ignition under any throttle load (which I saw the other day looking at live data on the basic diagnosis program which I have).
Ah well, onwards and upwards!

If anyone wants to fire me a PM telling me that they can get me a massive discount on half a bag of sand's worth or shells and gaskets, now's the time!

Cheers. Dave.

P.S. Sorry for the lack of pics. I've mislaid my lead and my phone memory is full. The world's against me!!