M3 S62 4X4!!! Glutton for punishment!

Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:56 pm

This is what happened today...

Picked up the blasted legs yesterday, slapped some Hamerite on em, springs top mounts on. Chucked the wheels back on and while I was on a roll i cracked on :

Apologies for the shite pics

Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:34 pm

some good progress there adem
starting to take shape

Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:37 pm

its one of those engines that has to have everything done from underneath isnt it!

No room whatsoever from above. Good feeling to have some movement finally.

Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:08 pm

Some progress...

Decided to make engine mounts that mount straight to the chassis rail as the engine will just not fit around the subframe.

So I am thinning out the inner section of the subframe, A LOT... and making up a complete bolt on section to restrengthen in the front. Once I have it back I will put some pix up.

So onto the engine mounts. The plan is to get some decent poly bushes and have it pressed into some tube which will make up the engine mount. I was planning on using a high tensile m12 or m14 bolt.

So I picked up some off cuts ect. ALL for £5 !! bargain! and started chopping!

My welding is getting better i think...

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:17 pm

So the engine wont fit. both the diff and the output shaft foul the subframe.

so I slimmed the subrame down and reenforced it.

But that didnt quite do it as the drive line of the front shafts got in the way of the main wishbones' ball jointed bar support webbing on the subframe. And seeing as that HAS to stay the engine as to back further.

so...

Unfortunately there is a bit more to be cut out too. The wiring on the back of the block needs to be diverted away along with the plastic housing as it takes up around an inch of space. and the steering column needs to be moved over a couple of inches. This will change the steering wheel flatness slightly. ie it the right side of the steering wheel will be a little nearer than the left.

Every cloud has a silver lining. The engine being further back means better handling, possible space for a viscous fan, and with the steering moved i might have room for the exhaust which was always going to be an issue.

Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:26 pm

Haha! Love a bit of bulkhead cutting!

You could fabricate a steering column, or modify yours with a couple (or maybe just a single) weld on U/J and an extra support bracket to keep the steering wheel angle correct. You also wouldn't have to compromise so much as far as moving the column mount on the bulkhead.

Have you thought about your heater matrix pipes? Assuming you're not going to have to throw the standard heater in the bin, I might well have a decent solution.

Your welding's coming along mate!

I'll answer your P.M in a tick...

Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:53 pm

Yes i am looking into Uj's. Will still need to make a mounting/support point above the footwell, shorten it and then uj the funk out of it from there.

I'll need 2 in the foot well and 2 in the bay wont I?

Im fairly confindent this wont be an issue as i have seen transits with 3 joints,s one at around 90 degrees.

The aftermarket matrix looks good but wont be able to use the original heater controls would I? Im also thinking about taking the original apart and seeing if i can 'slim' it down at all.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:41 pm

how much room ae you looking for, between the bulkhead and the heater box adem?

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:25 pm

I need another 2 inches Glenn. I know I can gain one of them by redirecting all the cables across the back of the engine.

The other inch I need to gain from the lip around the fan blower cover. Im hoping I can remake whatever I chop but further in.

I will also be having a cage eventually so need to keep that in mind too.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:08 pm

i'm sure you can gain that, without too much hassle from the heater matrix.

Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:42 pm

I think it gonna work. Just need to lengthen all the wire across the back of the engine so they go up into the bulkhead cable cover and back down the other side.

The rear of the transfer case is now where the prop center bear would be. meaning i will have a 2 inch gear selector

On the plus side the diff and driveshaft now clear and i have loads of room for a power steering rack. The negative is the subframe now sits in the path of the pas pulley. So i might rig up a small electric motor to the pump spline and control from inside the car. Pas when wanted, off when not :p I have a mo fo of a battery in the boot so should handle it... im sure ill be corrected if not.

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:37 pm

turk wrote: i will have a 2 inch gear selector

On the plus side the diff and driveshaft now clear and i have loads of room for a power steering rack. The negative is the subframe now sits in the path of the pas pulley. So i might rig up a small electric motor to the pump spline and control from inside the car. Pas when wanted, off when not :p I have a mo fo of a battery in the boot so should handle it... im sure ill be corrected if not.

the gear selector input on my gearbox is visible through the gearstick hole in my tunnel !, so my selector rod is as short as yours

also, lots of modern cars have 'electric power steering' nowadays,
so you should be able to find a set-up that would work for you.

Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:02 pm

glenn wrote: also, lots of modern cars have 'electric power steering' nowadays,
so you should be able to find a set-up that would work for you.

Good point... hmmm any ideas where to start? Ideally need something small. kia or ford maybe.

Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:17 pm

Glenn can you tell me what the id of the hoses to the oil filter are? I want to use the v10 and under mount it like yours

Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:00 pm

turk wrote:Glenn can you tell me what the id of the hoses to the oil filter are? I want to use the v10 and under mount it like yours

i'll have a look over the weekend for you mate

Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:19 pm

Thanks Glenn, you'm a star u are.. :p

last lot of Progress:

Loads of room for the steering rack now

Anorexic subframe in place:

Went out and found some 80mm od solid cylinder for my engine mounts. Powerflex sent my 60mm bushes through. So went to my local cnc chap and an hour or so later:

I was just about to start tacking the engine arms in situ and my bloody generator ran out of juice. Couldnt be arse to go for fuel so gave up for the night.

More soon

Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:26 pm

Smart!

Are you going to get your crossmember brace welded as you said you might? While you're at it, it might be worth having a couple of triangular sections welded from where the fore-aft cuts are, across the width of the crossmember if you have the space. Pictures can be deceptive, but the shape of that corner looks like a bit of a stress raiser.

Dave.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:30 am

Hi,

Electric steering - I would go drive
a few Cars fitted with it, its not
good.

Its blighted the new Porsche, and
the Z4 had it on some, which many hated.

If its your only route due to space,
then you could use a Z4 Electric steering which
has a Manual Rack at 2.7, same ratio as
the Z3 1.9-2.8's, and the electric motor is
fitted under the dash.

Its not a good feel though.

The Guy that did the V10 E46 M3 used
a Mazda Power Rack which was a lot
slimmer body than the BMW ZF and
nearly the same ratio as a std E46 M3 Rack.

The other issue you will have is that you
need to match the tie rod / wishbone
pivot points, so a lot of steering racks of smaller
cars will be far to short.

I have a LHD BMW Manual Rack from my
Track Car which I am now selling,
which is a proper Quick Rack at 2.2
Ratio, its 68mm per rev, but its 400.00,
cost me over a 1000.00,
and not sure how you would do the
electrics at the top, which as stated is far from
ideal.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:50 am

I was literally just planning to use the m3 rack and rig up a small electric motor doing 700 rpm and be done with it.

Yes Dave will defo be having the subframe welded up. I'm worried about it warping thought and the bolt holes not lining up.

I'm starting the engine arms today so will look at the remaining room after its all in situ.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:02 pm

Hi,

Are you saying that you can fit
an Hydraulic Rack ?

If so, use a Mini [BMW] or Mercedes
A Class Power steering pump.

Merc will cheaper and easier.

You can mount it whereever you
like and it works well with the
M3 Rack as quite a few Racers use
the Merc Pump on their M3's.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:13 pm

Yes. I have squeezed an e30 m3 rack in. The issue is the pas pump mounting is in the way of the anti roll bar.

Any particular year A class?

That's defo good advice. Off to fleabay

Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:12 pm

So engine and box went back in after the liposuction. I had played around with the black cable housing on the back of the engine hoping it would be enough. Though very close to where i need it its just not enough. I need another 15-20 mm.

The cables will definitely need extending and raising over the plenum. Need to figure a pretty way doing it though.

X5 Driveshafts arrived the other day too, but again because the engine is too far forward they are rubbing the subframe. They seem a little long too. they have another inch or so to go in yet but seems like i might have issues. Dont know if the e30/e34 ix might have suitable driveshafts that will match the diff too.

Poking its head out

Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:43 am

Hi,

Merc A Class Pump 140/160 from
1999 TO 2002/3.

They mount upright, 4 wires,
and the fluid chamber sits on top.

Pressure feed out to rack and
return to fluid chamber, very simple.

I would also recommend the fitting of
a Relay from engine loom to P/S Pump.

Drive Shafts- there are a couple
of companies around that shorten
Half shafts.

The other option would be BMW E34 M5
ones, as they have a stub shaft that fits
in the Hub and then you have a CV joint
inner and outer on the half shaft.

Makes changing shafts a lot easier which
with 4x4 might be worth considering.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:31 am

turk wrote:Glenn can you tell me what the id of the hoses to the oil filter are? I want to use the v10 and under mount it like yours

i only have a 'tape' here adem, but it looks like....

from engine to filter housing.....i.d. 15mm
from filter housing to cooler......i.d. 12mm

HTH

Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:51 pm

Cheers glenn, Ill cross check my id's tomorrow.

Cable wise I have the option to lower the black plastic cavble housing. would again only need 30-40mm or so but its nearer to the 'heat' non the less.

What we reckon? lower or extend the gazillion cables and go up n over?

Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:13 pm

So, got rid of the black plastic and immediately gained 30mm

"WINNING" C.S.

squeezed the steering rack in, not quite where it needs to be but close

Power steering bracket no longer fouls

and now have LOADS of room. should handle much better, as im now about 3 inches
further back the the usual s62 swaps.

Engine arm base plate in situ, picture some exhaust in there too.

Just bought some 250 degree resistant 3M tape to wrap the cables uo with.

They're only touching the block in a couple of places so im hoping that it will suffice. Recommendations appreciated! Dave, I havent found any sheathing heat resistant to the same degree as the tape. And wrapping in exhaust tape may be an option, but i wanna leave that till last resort as dont think it will look very pretty.

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:05 pm

cables done, used some heat jacket wrapped in heatproof tape. Still some tidying to do after I have fitted new stat, O-rings on the water pipes, cleaned icv etc.

made a little bracket to hold the cables in situ.

Drilled and tapped the e30 temp sensor into the stat housing.

Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:52 pm

So....

Thought id watch a bit of the olympics before working on the car, got a little distracted

Then I got off my arse and picked up fuel rails with new and improved braided fuel hose.
With as few connections as possible to reduce risk of fuel leaking on the manifolds.

Reworked the wiring ready for the last few connections into the car. Plug 4 still needs to be made up.

Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:10 pm

You've been busy!

I (initially) used a strip of self adhesive heat blanket wrapped round my fuel hose, then lockwired it. (There's a pic on P.8 of my thread.) You could do the same for your wiring if you're still not happy.

Is it just the pics, or are you going to have to get a bit creative with the engine "arm"/steering column clearance?

While I'm here, what's the deal with using the E30 temp sender? (In my head) I *thought* the M5 unit is a duel sender? (Light & guage?)

While I'm still here, how have you flared your FPR outlet where the pipe is swaged on?

Cheers! D(tG)

Edited to say: I like the idea of the electric PAS pump GermanGorilla.

Few ponies tied up there eh!

Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:44 am

The brown sender in the housing is the e30 one. ;)

Steering is not fun, working on the steering column at the moment and being a W@n73r

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:37 pm

When I was at Ginetta we used the BMW Mini electric power steering pumps hooked up to BMW ZF racks and they worked very well. They have an adjuster screw in them too so you can alter the pressure and therefore the feel which we tinkered with a bit.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:58 am

I will have to wait until the engine is in its final position before I decide on the electric or manual pump. Electric sounds ideal though!

meanwhile, I have been working on the steering column.

Mocked up here, will actually come through the bulkhead a little lower. I also need to make up a bracket to hold the lower bearing in situ but again have to wait for final engine position to be safe.