M60 Conversion

[JGG1]

Hello all,

Whilst my e46 M3 is keeping me amused I can't help wanting another e30! I really want the V8 noise so I'm looking into an m60 conversion.

Sorry if this has been asked before (I have searched) but is there a definitive guide on this conversion anywhere? Like the guides I've found for fitting the m30.

Thanks.

[Phill172]

As will said no definitive guide.

There are easier ways and better ways

This is the way I did mine, getting a bit dusty trying to remember it all

Engine

Getting the engine in either use E30.de mounts or there was a chap on here selling mounts ( i have used these on mine), these work on all M6* engines and have a choice of two mounting points.

Standard M60 engine arms

Engine rubbers use the E34 540 variants. IIRC they are sided and ordering (if new) from Bmw can take a while

Gearbox

5 speed e34 item fits perfectly with no modifications. This does cause issues with clutches. The 4.0 clutch is 280mm (correct me if wrong) and the 3.0 is 265mm (correct me if wrong)

The 3.0 265mm clutch is the same size as M5, E36 M3, E39 530d as well as others.
The 3.0 clutch wont hold up to the 4.0 power, and I wouldnt listen to anyone who says it does.
Wether or not you can use a M5 clutch or others im not sure, if heard of people using them but never 'seen' results.

The 6 speed box needs some tunnel love

Mine I have a helix set up along with a BBB/2020 vision flywheel (that took fucking ages to come, useless people)

Gearbox mounts.

Stock e30

Propshaft - E36 328 with center bearing reversed, i think the ones that break are when people
mix e30/36

Manifolds, chopped up e34 ones, the stock e34 are really restrictive, plus been hacked together make it really bad.
There is a company who make tubular ones, they retail around £1500.
I do have a friend trying to find a fabrication company to make some, as he has a jig ready and a tested set.

There are lots of other bits and pieces that go on, like for tidiness moving the remote oil filter etc, but that is the basics.

If your ever near basingstoke feel free to see mine, or pm me for any other details

[Hakosuka]

Who on the forums makes engine mounts?
We're deciding on putting a M50 or M60 engine in our E30...
Does a gearbox from a M50B25 fit on a M60B40?

[Phill172]

Nope the gearbox doesnt, the bell housing is very different. You need a m60 specific box

Having owned both, a M60 is in a different league to a M50, but M50 conversion is still very a good and a good base to go further with.

The mounts were in the for sale section

[JGG1]

Thanks very much for the info Phil

[Phill172]

No worries

O and brake servo side of things, for me the setup with the servo behind the dash/glovebox is so much better, easy to fab up because the linkage is pretty much there already.

I know some people and the germans seem to put the servo by the headlights and run a massive linkage, but im yet to see one that works properly and doesnt flex like fuck!

[JGG1]

I'm sure the servo by the headlights has its advantages but is like to avoid it if possible. I'm not keen on the appearance when you lift the bonnet.

[JGG1]

I think I am going to start getting bits together for the conversion then as soon as my 330d sells I will look for an e30 and with a bit of luck this will turn into a build thread!

[Darrenr]

my servo is where glovebox would be, alot better than having near headlights

[Driftben]

i havent got a servo, so even better still

[Jonsku]

I know some people and the germans seem to put the servo by the headlights and run a massive linkage, but im yet to see one that works properly and doesnt flex like ****!

Feel free to come and see that "miracle"

I've done two and consulted three BMW E30 V8 swaps, all with remote linkages. None of the swaps have had any flexing issues.

You will end up having flexing issues if you don't do the linkage correctly, though..

[Jonsku]

Gearbox

5 speed e34 item fits perfectly with no modifications. This does cause issues with clutches. The 4.0 clutch is 280mm (correct me if wrong) and the 3.0 is 265mm (correct me if wrong)

The 3.0 265mm clutch is the same size as M5, E36 M3, E39 530d as well as others.
The 3.0 clutch wont hold up to the 4.0 power, and I wouldnt listen to anyone who says it does.
Wether or not you can use a M5 clutch or others im not sure, if heard of people using them but never 'seen' results.

M60B40 - 265mm clutch
ALL OTHER M60 and M62 engines + S62 - 240mm clutch
(M70/M73 - 280mm clutch)


Flywheels in M60/M62/S62 are interchangeable, though M60 does not have the "sensor ring" that is required in M62 / S62. Of course you have then to use correct clutch with the flywheel.

6-speed gearboxes have larger diameter clutch shaft, so clutch discs from 5-speeders are not compatible with 6-speed 'boxes.

The 6 speed box needs some tunnel love

No it doesn't.

Manifolds, chopped up e34 ones, the stock e34 are really restrictive, plus been hacked together make it really bad.
There is a company who make tubular ones, they retail around £1500.
I do have a friend trying to find a fabrication company to make some, as he has a jig ready and a tested set.

X5 manifolds are almost direct bolt-on in LHD cars, should be also quite ok in RHD cars when using RHD X5 manifolds?

E34 vs X5 manifolds;
http://v8cabrio.kuvat.fi/kuvat/18_17_15 ... ifolds.JPG

Modified X5 manifolds;
http://v8cabrio.kuvat.fi/kuvat/21_18_af ... fter+2.JPG

Manifolds in place;
http://v8cabrio.kuvat.fi/kuvat/74_RHS.J ... 74_RHS.JPG // http://v8cabrio.kuvat.fi/kuvat/73_LHS.J ... 73_LHS.JPG

[Phill172]

Thanks for defining the clutches, i keep forgetting which way round it is!

X5 manifolds need as much modification as E34 ones, I tried and lost a fair bit of money in doing so! I can see the on a lhd e30 working really well.

On a rhd e30 the starter motor sits in the way on the left bank, so the collecter sits ontop of it, then the usual steering rack issue on the right hand side is no better then a e34 item

Like to see the brake linkage one yours as I know you have done it properly, just all the others look hashed together and working one for a friend that had been installed by someone else was awful!

[Jonsku]

X5 manifolds need as much modification as E34 ones, I tried and lost a fair bit of money in doing so! I can see the on a lhd e30 working really well.

On a rhd e30 the starter motor sits in the way on the left bank, so the collecter sits ontop of it, then the usual steering rack issue on the right hand side is no better then a e34 item

What about RHD X5 manifolds?

Like to see the brake linkage one yours as I know you have done it properly, just all the others look hashed together and working one for a friend that had been installed by someone else was awful!

This is how I made mine (the linkage is slightly offset, bearing points on firewall); http://peruna.fi/~jonsku/E30_V8/9-4-2009_konehuone.jpg


And here couple of pictures on the latest project (as it's autobox I could offset the linkage inside the car / on the brake pedal);

http://v8cabrio.kuvat.fi/kuvat/23_20_ja ... ivusto.jpg

http://v8cabrio.kuvat.fi/kuvat/80_brake ... inkage.JPG

http://v8cabrio.kuvat.fi/#/kuvat/22_20.1_brakes.JPG


I believe you meant something like this when you mentioned "flexing linkages";

http://wp1016621.wp027.webpack.hosteuro ... 776/16.jpg

I strongly disagree with that solution, too many corners cut on that one..

[Phill172]

Yep it was rhd manifolds I used,

Yea the red one was how the linkage was on a friends car he bought, it pushed sideways rather then forwards!
Your set up is far more engineered

We were looking at a joint on the inner wing, almost a sleeve to direct the movement of the rod
I'm now going to loose my evening reading your whole build again!

[Jonsku]

Pic with motor in place. Am also using the 4channel e32 ABS unit. As you can see, my front end bolts off like an e36 one, makes getting to things MUCH easier.

That looks nice


Are there any problems when wiring E32 ABS unit to E30? Does one have to change the control unit / wiring a lot?

[Phill172]

That bolt off front end looks great! Is the next thing im looking at on mine!

[Jonsku]

Phill, the bolt off front really makes getting a V8 with auto box in and out very easy. I originally tried to put the engine in the top and lift the box up from the bottom... V8 auto is way too heavy and difficult to manoeuvre, so had to try to get the whole unit in from the top. Somehow managed it but decided that the e36 bolt off front had to be possible. Is actually not difficult to do, just a bit of patience and a spot weld drill necessary.

The V8-package can be lifted to place also from underneath ;)

http://v8cabrio.kuvat.fi/#/kuvat/53_space.JPG

[Dirty6]

I currently run an auto box but the clutch pedal only needs to be added to use a manual box (when I can find one downunder.. )

Ever notice how similar the rear housing of the 6 cylinder ZF box is to the V8 5speed box? Ahem.....

[Dirty6]

After some quick realoem browsing, and after spending awhile trying to find the v8 5 speed under e34 (all e39s are listed 6speed?) the part numbers for the internals and the rear half of the casing appear to be the same.

Sooo, theoretically, a flywheel/clutch and front casing is all we need for a v8 5speed box.

Maybe...

[Jonsku]

After some quick realoem browsing, and after spending awhile trying to find the v8 5 speed under e34 (all e39s are listed 6speed?) the part numbers for the internals and the rear half of the casing appear to be the same.

Sooo, theoretically, a flywheel/clutch and front casing is all we need for a v8 5speed box.

Maybe...

Only the larger (4+ litres) V8's came with 6-speed boxes. The smaller ones (3.0 / 3.5) came with 5-speeders.

The 5-speed gearbox is basically same unit that is found e.g. in E36 M3.


Those gearboxes can be found relatively easily, so I don't fully understand why one would bother with cutting bellhousings etc.. Too much hassle without any real benefits - or is there something i don't see here?

[Jonsku]

M60 manual boxes are not available in New Zealand, we have to import them. Being at the other end of the world, it costs an arm and a leg for shipping, never mind the problem trying to source one overseas and trying get the seller to ship it over.

Ahhh... didn't notice the location. Well, then that makes sense

[Dirty6]

I had intentions of trying to cut the bellhousing off an auto box and get it welded onto a e36 328i box, much like Andrew did with his turbo, but have not done anything more than get a M60 auto box, so not sure how practical it would be.

Yeah, I guess it depends on the cost of the front casing vs the cost to cut and weld.

Have replaced a front input shaft bearing on one of these boxes and it was a right prick of a thing, so there's probably more there in reassembly.

[turk]

check out my gearbox buildup. I used an e39 540 auto bell housing and mated it to an e30 m3 box.

I also have an interface plate for sale. same as pictured.





heres my build:
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=

[Barx325i]

the 3 has gills

nice work

[Jonsku]

I was not aware that there was a bolt-off auto bellhousing available, thought they were all integral.

e30 m3 boxes would be also be almost impossible to obtain here.

Is the auto bellhousing from Range Rover or something similar? Some of them are powered by M60 (or was it M62?)

E30 M3 box has same casing as e.g. E34 535 manual box.. maybe those can be found over there as well?