Donor 328i... what to keep, what to throw?

[Acaciastrain360]

As title suggests... just bought a 328ci manual, runs and drives lovely, no taps etc... so why not keep it to use in my e30...
I’ve done an M50b25 conversion in the past, but from what I read the M52TUB28 engine conversion differ.

From experience can any of you chaps tell me what I need to keep from the donor as I’d like to lose the shell etc as it’s taking up space

Look forward to your replies, thanks

[Brianmoooore]

AFAIK, there's little difference in the work required to physically fit the engine and ancillaries into an E30 shell whether its a M50 or M52. Electrics are essentially the same in principle as well.
Your duplicate post has been locked, with a link for anyone reading it to direct them here. Two threads on exactly the same subject leads to confusion.
I'd hang onto the prop shaft and diff., and the ABS system from some E36s can be fitted to E30s to upgrade the system a bit.

[Acaciastrain360]

AFAIK, there's little difference in the work required to physically fit the engine and ancillaries into an E30 shell whether its a M50 or M52. Electrics are essentially the same in principle as well.
Your duplicate post has been locked, with a link for anyone reading it to direct them here. Two threads on exactly the same subject leads to confusion.
I'd hang onto the prop shaft and diff., and the ABS system from some E36s can be fitted to E30s to upgrade the system a bit.

Thanks for your input Brian, in that case it should be a simple conversion then! I’ll start accumulating parts soon for it, any further input from anyone else would be great

[DanThe]

M52TU is very different where the electrics are concerned, I would always go for the real M52 for the simple reason there are relatively cheap/easy power upgrades available further down the line which is not the case with a tu engine

[Brianmoooore]

Someone here you might want to swap notes with: viewtopic.php?f=116&t=279420&p=2964137#p2964137
I agree with Dan that the M52 is preferable to the M52Tu, but if the Tu is what's available......

[Acaciastrain360]

M52TU is very different where the electrics are concerned, I would always go for the real M52 for the simple reason there are relatively cheap/easy power upgrades available further down the line which is not the case with a tu engine

Thanks Dan, regarding upgrades are you referring to the m50 inlet? As I’d like to do that with a map later down the line

[Acaciastrain360]

Someone here you might want to swap notes with: viewtopic.php?f=116&t=279420&p=2964137#p2964137
I agree with Dan that the M52 is preferable to the M52Tu, but if the Tu is what's available......

Thanks Brian, I’ve sent a pm to him, so what’s the problem with the TU engine that pushes people away?
Yeah well I picked up the car for £200 and thought it was a cheap donor to do a conversion with

[Brianmoooore]

Apart from what Dan has alluded to, it's not so much that there's anything wrong with the Tu these days, it's just that there's no advantages over the plain M52. Historically, the Tu's integration with all the car's other systems led to all kinds of problems with getting the engine to perform properly, since the ECU was looking for all kinds of signals that don't exist on an E30, but now, thanks to the efforts of people like Dan and similarly minded others, these problems have been overcome or otherwise worked around. With each generation of BMW engines, the sophistication of the engine management goes up an order of magnitude, which is excellent if you're using the engine as and where BMW intended, but not so good if you are transplanting and/or modifying it.
As I said earlier, the electrical connections to the E30 wiring are much the same as any M5x conversion, but if your car is of the type after BMW discontinued the completely separate standalone engine loom, as used on the E30 and the earlier M5x engined BMWs, there's a bit more involved than just cutting off one plug and replacing it with an E30 C101 plug.

[Acaciastrain360]

Apart from what Dan has alluded to, it's not so much that there's anything wrong with the Tu these days, it's just that there's no advantages over the plain M52. Historically, the Tu's integration with all the car's other systems led to all kinds of problems with getting the engine to perform properly, since the ECU was looking for all kinds of signals that don't exist on an E30, but now, thanks to the efforts of people like Dan and similarly minded others, these problems have been overcome or otherwise worked around. With each generation of BMW engines, the sophistication of the engine management goes up an order of magnitude, which is excellent if you're using the engine as and where BMW intended, but not so good if you are transplanting and/or modifying it.
As I said earlier, the electrical connections to the E30 wiring are much the same as any M5x conversion, but if your car is of the type after BMW discontinued the completely separate standalone engine loom, as used on the E30 and the earlier M5x engined BMWs, there's a bit more involved than just cutting off one plug and replacing it with an E30 C101 plug.

Thanks again Brian, you’re an abundance of knowledge are all of the technicals reported in the m5x wiki on the wiki section? As it does state some wiring adjustments etc
Thanks

[flybynite]

Just to confirm you bought an E46 328 or a E36 328? as it is a ci I am guessing E46

Can't remember where the overlap on the M52TU went between models

[Acaciastrain360]

Just to confirm you bought an E46 328 or a E36 328? as it is a ci I am guessing E46

Can't remember where the overlap on the M52TU went between models

Yeah man E46

[flybynite]

As said by @Brianmoooore and @DanThe the E46 328i sits between two camps

The E36 M50/M52 is a lot simpler with manual throttle and lots of bits to modify and improve it

The E46 330i M54 (IMHO) is best used as-is with dual vanos, FBW throttle DISA and the MS43 management system which is both powerful and well known how to get it to play nicely in the E30. The 330i/ci also has the MK60 ABS which can run as standalone and is used a lot for development

The E46 328i uses the MS42 which can still be made to work but is not as good as MS43 so has had less development work. I believe it also has the older MK20 ABS system, a bit like the management system it is not as powerful so has not had a lot of time on it to make it work outside the E46

Might be worth checking which ABS it has as it changed about 9/2000. If it is the MK60 I would take it all out, if it is the MK20 I am not sure it would be worth the bother as opposed to getting some Mk60 bits off a late 330

The MK20 unit sits level, the MK60 unit is on an angle

[Acaciastrain360]

As said by @Brianmoooore and @DanThe the E46 328i sits between two camps

The E36 M50/M52 is a lot simpler with manual throttle and lots of bits to modify and improve it

The E46 330i M54 (IMHO) is best used as-is with dual vanos, FBW throttle DISA and the MS43 management system which is both powerful and well known how to get it to play nicely in the E30. The 330i/ci also has the MK60 ABS which can run as standalone and is used a lot for development

The E46 328i uses the MS42 which can still be made to work but is not as good as MS43 so has had less development work. I believe it also has the older MK20 ABS system, a bit like the management system it is not as powerful so has not had a lot of time on it to make it work outside the E46

Might be worth checking which ABS it has as it changed about 9/2000. If it is the MK60 I would take it all out, if it is the MK20 I am not sure it would be worth the bother as opposed to getting some Mk60 bits off a late 330

The MK20 unit sits level, the MK60 unit is on an angle

Thanks for your reply, just to clarify this conversion is only as a road cruiser, no track or racing... so would it be possible to stick with the E30 abs it already has? And will this manual box and engine still be usable as a reliable alternative/upgrade to the auto m20?

[flybynite]

Thanks for your reply, just to clarify this conversion is only as a road cruiser, no track or racing... so would it be possible to stick with the E30 abs it already has? And will this manual box and engine still be usable as a reliable alternative/upgrade to the auto m20?

The M52 conversion won't touch the ABS so perfectly fine to leave it as-is. If you had the MK60 then it would be worth saving and putting in a box but not a huge amount more work while wiring the conversion. Well worth it even for a road car, especially if you put in a bigger engine.

To be honest I would leave the M20 in it and sort it out. Find a good G260 manual. Enjoy it.

Personal opinion but I don't think any M5x conversion is as easy as sorting what you have and to do it right is never going to be the cheapest thing to do. I never look at an M5x converted E30 the same way as I do an original engine as there are so many bad conversions out there.

I have a facelift with no engine and a known low mileage late 330i and I'm having second thoughts about not putting the E30 back to original.

[Brianmoooore]

Agreed that there are some very poor M5x conversions out there, especially regarding the electrics, but there's no reason why the conversion can't be done to the standard of a BMW fitted power train if you're willing to put in the effort. With the right bits, it evens looks like a BMW factory job.
If you have an engine at hand, developing the same kind of BHP as the original M3, but with torque and MPG figures that the S14 can only dream of, then what's not to like in an E30 that's going to get driven regularly.

[Acaciastrain360]

Thanks for your reply, just to clarify this conversion is only as a road cruiser, no track or racing... so would it be possible to stick with the E30 abs it already has? And will this manual box and engine still be usable as a reliable alternative/upgrade to the auto m20?

The M52 conversion won't touch the ABS so perfectly fine to leave it as-is. If you had the MK60 then it would be worth saving and putting in a box but not a huge amount more work while wiring the conversion. Well worth it even for a road car, especially if you put in a bigger engine.

To be honest I would leave the M20 in it and sort it out. Find a good G260 manual. Enjoy it.

Personal opinion but I don't think any M5x conversion is as easy as sorting what you have and to do it right is never going to be the cheapest thing to do. I never look at an M5x converted E30 the same way as I do an original engine as there are so many bad conversions out there.

I have a facelift with no engine and a known low mileage late 330i and I'm having second thoughts about not putting the E30 back to original.

Thanks mate, yeah I wouldn’t ever think of getting rid of any original parts I take out. And regarding the ABS I’ll double check to see what model it is anyways.

I know I have seen some shoddy examples but my previous one was to a good standard I’d be satisfied with again!

[Acaciastrain360]

Agreed that there are some very poor M5x conversions out there, especially regarding the electrics, but there's no reason why the conversion can't be done to the standard of a BMW fitted power train if you're willing to put in the effort. With the right bits, it evens looks like a BMW factory job.
If you have an engine at hand, developing the same kind of BHP as the original M3, but with torque and MPG figures that the S14 can only dream of, then what's not to like in an E30 that's going to get driven regularly.

Thanks Brian, I think I’ll still go ahead with the conversion just as a tinker job to keep my mind occupied haha and it was so cheap I can’t, not use it! Unless I just break the car up to sell?

My E30 runs like a dream at present, it’s just auto and needs a couple bits of welding doing and it’s good to go, it’s a good original example with engine work receipts up until 2016 (when it was SORN) so yeah, the biggest mistake I made was selling my last E30... NEVER AGAIN!! haha

[Acaciastrain360]

Thanks for your reply, just to clarify this conversion is only as a road cruiser, no track or racing... so would it be possible to stick with the E30 abs it already has? And will this manual box and engine still be usable as a reliable alternative/upgrade to the auto m20?

The M52 conversion won't touch the ABS so perfectly fine to leave it as-is. If you had the MK60 then it would be worth saving and putting in a box but not a huge amount more work while wiring the conversion. Well worth it even for a road car, especially if you put in a bigger engine.

To be honest I would leave the M20 in it and sort it out. Find a good G260 manual. Enjoy it.

Personal opinion but I don't think any M5x conversion is as easy as sorting what you have and to do it right is never going to be the cheapest thing to do. I never look at an M5x converted E30 the same way as I do an original engine as there are so many bad conversions out there.

I have a facelift with no engine and a known low mileage late 330i and I'm having second thoughts about not putting the E30 back to original.

ABS unit

[flybynite]

Looks like a MK20 as suspected in a 328. Doesnt play as well as the MK60 in other cars. Still might be worth stripping out along with yaw sensors etc wiring and wheel speed sensors. You never know.

[Acaciastrain360]

Looks like a MK20 as suspected in a 328. Doesnt play as well as the MK60 in other cars. Still might be worth stripping out along with yaw sensors etc wiring and wheel speed sensors. You never know.

Sweet thanks man

[adiethirteen]

I'm just about to do this conversion with an e46 328i that I already own (Free's) - How are you getting on AND is there anything outside of the engine and attached wiring from the shell that you wish you hadn't chucked?

The lack of separate "full engine harness" with plug - as per the early M50/M52 is making me question if i need to liberate any extra wiring from behind the fusebox/dash on the donor car before launching it?