M50 Developments - considering an M50? Read this.

[buster]

hi stulane
not sure about the looms,probably e34 e36 are the same or similar.The ecu unless you lengthen the wires i think will have to go through bulkhead and into glovebox or close to it.


a 413 ecu ? i think thats an e30 320/325 ecu,not sure .

Hopefully the m50 guys will be able to give you some better answers than I can as some of them i think have used that engine.

cheers
andy

[jmc330i]

I dont know if its the same for an M50 conversion, but Ian used a LHD M3 loom to get his ECU mounted on the drivers side of the E30 for his S50 conversion.

Ive mounted mine on the drivers side, but it involved a lot of work on the S50 loom - Not something I would want to do again

[buster]

what did you do james to get the ecu in original position ?
Extend the ecu wires ??

[jmc330i]

It wasnt so much extending, just re-routing.

I was able to find enough 'play' in the big bundle of wires that sit on top the engine to move the ECU and Vanos plug to the drivers side. All the wires are tangled round each other, so I just un-tangled them, but most of them needed cutting and connecting back together again and it does take along time to sort through.

It still wasnt quite long enough, so the ECU sits at a slight angle under the dash, with the ECU plug facing towards the centre of the dash, rather than back towards the driver.

I did have to remove the plastic case that contains the wires, so its not going to look very original, and Im still having trouble finding something suitable to recover the wires with.

I would get hold of a LHD loom if I was doing it again. And worst luck, about a week after I had re-routed the ECU, a LHD loom was offered to me

[Brianmoooore]

I had both E36 and E34 looms to hand when I did my M50 Tu conversion, and I would recommend using the E34.
The E34 loom wiring box will hang nicely on the bulkhead heater fan access panel, and the ECU connector will just go through the bulkhead into the cabin, but will not reach as far as the original ECU position.
I cut and extended the loom, using bits from the E36 loom, but it was a lot of work, and if doing it again , I would probably fit a waterproof enclosure on the front battery tray.
Where has the muppet cut your loom?

[stulane]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the advice, basically the guy just cut off anything that involved more than a few wires so the loom isnt really salvagable. I was thinking that an e34 loom might be the answer as im going to wack the battery in the boot so i'll have the room to slap a box there to enclose the ECU.

Does anyone know anything about which ECU i need? I have a non-vanos ECU (my engine=vanos) and the guy i bought the engine from is sending me another ECU, i think its the original from my engine out of a e34, which was originally an AUTO. Do i need to find an ECU from a manual or will this one be ok?

Thanks

[buster]

James,
i was thinking of junking the box and just tape it all up like a normal loom,or maybe put all the wiring into a tube or something.Then just fasten it back to the bulkhead cover.But i havent had a real good look at that yet and i want it to look factory.I also want to use the strut brace i have which i had on before but to use it i may have to angle the box of wires on its side flat against the bulkhead cover.Not to sure yet what im going to do with it all.
The black m3 of henrys which was in pbmw mag i cant see where he has put the ecu wires as the trunking it was in has a bmw badge in the end of it.Appart from the LHD loom im unsure of what the other options are.

[ian332isport]

The black m3 of henrys which was in pbmw mag i cant see where he has put the ecu wires as the trunking it was in has a bmw badge in the end of it.Appart from the LHD loom im unsure of what the other options are.

All 4 cylinder E30's had a plastic cover across the bulkhead which would be good to use if you are getting rid of the standard E36 wiring box.

Henry actually left this in place on his car, and fitted the E36 wiring box on the front of it. Henry also did like James has done, and re-routed the RHD loom to put the ECU on the drivers side under the dash.

Ian.

[jmc330i]

maybe put all the wiring into a tube or something.Then just fasten it back to the bulkhead cover.

Thats what Im looking to do, but its difficult to find anything thats the right shape/size. Im not overly worried if it doesnt look factory fitted - I just want/need the car on the road but I dont want it to look too out of place either.
I can always change it at a later date once the car is on the road.

I havent seen Henrys car in PBMW, I couldnt get a copy
Here is the bit Ian is talking about (I think). Parts 1 & 3...


Ive got the top bit (part 3) but need the bottom bit to make it fit. There is also a bit that goes over towards the battery that I would want to finish it off, but I cant find it on the ETK.

[ian332isport]

Here's a couple of pictures of Henry's setup.





Ian.

[stulane]

On another topic, this brake booster crap, i have a e21 320 booster and i've read that i have to shorten the shaft to 15mm...

"E21 320i brake booster with modified shaft (shortened to 15mm)"

I don't understand this as my e30 325i booster has longer shaft so why would i want to make the e21 any shorter? I'm confused about that one.

any ideas??

[stulane]

Hi,

Have a look at the pics of the two units, e21 on the left, e30 on the right..

http://www.assassinmotorsport.com/1/

[jmc330i]

TBH, Ive only heard of the guys in the USA using the E21 320 brake servo.
Maybe its a difference between RHD and LHD??

I think there are 2 different servos for the E21 320 - one for the 320i 4pot and one for 320 6pot. Maybe you have the wrong one to fit to the E30??
You might find it a bit difficult to find an E21 320i brake servo, I would imagine they are a bit thin on the ground now.

Have you seen the posts in this thread about the different servos that can be used - Porsche 944, Renault 19 16v, VW Golf Mk2 1.3. All fairly easy to get hold of and easy to fit.

[Brianmoooore]

I don't like putting non BMW stuff into a BMW, but the golf stuff even has the same labels on it.
I'm off to visit my favourite 150mile distant scrappy on Tuesday.
Can someone please advise me as to what engine size of Golf is a suitable donor and to what registration letter range?

[jmc330i]

I don't like putting non BMW stuff into a BMW, but the golf stuff even has the same labels on it.

Neither do I, but at least VW is German

Can someone please advise me as to what engine size of Golf is a suitable donor and to what registration letter range?

Well Dave used a Mk2 Golf 1.3ltr servo with his M50 conversion. I think the Mk2 is 1984 - 1992.
Should be easy to come by, but a spacer is needed in between the master cylinder push rod and servo.

Im using the Mk1 Golf GTi servo for my S50 conversion. Im not sure on the age but would guess at pre 1984.
Not so easy to find, but a straight swap for the E30 servo - no spacer required.

[Brianmoooore]

Thanks jmc330i, that's the info I wanted. Last time I was at the scrappy's there were plenty in, but I didn't know which one I needed. Then it started to rain.

[buster]

thats great cheers guys,looks like i have a few options there,and by the looks of things the 4cylinder cover may fit all the wiring inside.I think i will have to buy one to find out.Then go from there,possibly get a used one first to try it for size.
Why did Henry place his coolant tank in the battery tray ? was it becasue of the other stuff he needed to fit like the oil booster and air filter box etc ? Or does the coolant tank need to be higher up ? i know Ian you have fitted yours in standard place but you modified the piping to the tank,on mine the pipe nearly goes up hill again to join the metal Y piece near the back of the engine .that make sense ? Will this be a problem on mine do you think ?Or do you need a photo to make sense of what im jibbering on about

[ian332isport]

Why did Henry place his coolant tank in the battery tray ? was it becasue of the other stuff he needed to fit like the oil booster and air filter box etc ? Or does the coolant tank need to be higher up ? i know Ian you have fitted yours in standard place but you modified the piping to the tank,on mine the pipe nearly goes up hill again to join the metal Y piece near the back of the engine .that make sense ? Will this be a problem on mine do you think ?Or do you need a photo to make sense of what im jibbering on about

Andy,

Henry's car is an M3, and that's where the M3 has it's coolant tank as standard. M3's never had the facelift like the regular E30's, and the tanks is always over in the battery tray. All Henry did was to fit the later style coolant tank in place of the M3 part. This is mainly to allow the use of the 2 Bar coolant tank cap that the E36 Evo runs. He was unable to find a 2 Bar cap for the M3 tank.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about the pipework 'going up hill again'. A photo would help.

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

ok thanks Ian,i will take a photo tomorrow.Also do i need that coolant cap ?

[ian332isport]

Also do i need that coolant cap ?

Not sure how important it is to be honest.

BMW decided that the EVO should have a 2 Bar cap (as opposed to the 1.4 Bar cap fitted to most other models). I fitted one on mine, and have not had any issues, and I know Henry is also using one.

I really don't know if you would have issues running the 1.4 Bar cap - probably not, but you never know...

Ian.

[buster]

quite a popular cap,most e36's a few 7's e30 318 is and e46's and e34 m5's were fitted with the 2 bar cap part number 17 11 1 742 231.Do you know how much it is fro the stealer please Ian ,thanks

[ian332isport]

quite a popular cap,most e36's a few 7's e30 318 is and e46's and e34 m5's were fitted with the 2 bar cap part number 17 11 1 742 231.Do you know how much it is fro the stealer please Ian ,thanks

Andy,

It's about Ԛ£12 from the dealer.

I'm sure when I checked a couple of years ago, it was only used on a few models, but I guess not

Cheers,

Ian.

[Sooty]

James

Well Dave used a Mk2 Golf 1.3ltr servo with his M50 conversion. I think the Mk2 is 1984 - 1992.
Should be easy to come by, but a spacer is needed in between the master cylinder push rod and servo.

Do you have any idea of the dimensions for this spacer?

Cheers

Iain S

[jmc330i]

Sooty.

Have a look at the bottom of page 7 in this thread. Dave says about cutting down an 8mm bolt for the spacer, but any rod or bar will be fine as longs as its 8mm.
I dont actually know myself cause I didnt use the Mk2 servo, but I would guess the spacer needs to be a snug fit, so it doesnt rattle and move around too much.

The length of the spacer will probably vary between cars, master cylinders and servos, so it would be case of offering your master cylinder upto the Golf servo and cutting it to length from there.

[Sooty]

Cheers James
Will give it a go tomorrow.

[buster]

Ian,
had a good look through the RS catalog (sp?) and found the pins you gave me the part numbers for.Is this the correct tool you mentioned for putting the pins and sockets in and out ? --> 162-2005.
also,do you know how many of each pin i will need ? 10 each maybe 20 ? of all 3 sizes both sockets and pins.


cheers
andy

[ian332isport]

Ian,
had a good look through the RS catalog (sp?) and found the pins you gave me the part numbers for.Is this the correct tool you mentioned for putting the pins and sockets in and out ? --> 162-2005.
also,do you know how many of each pin i will need ? 10 each maybe 20 ? of all 3 sizes both sockets and pins.


cheers
andy

Hi Andy,

Yes, that is the correct tool (it's only needed to remove the pins - they just push into place, and need no tool for insertion). Looks like this:



I don't remember how many of each size you will need to be honest. Most of the wires in the C101/X20 are quite small, so you will need more of those than anything else. You won't need very many of the sockets to go in the car side of the connector, as you will only be adding a few wires. It's the pins that you will need most of. I think the housing takes 20 pins max. It's always worth having spares though.

Your best bet is to have a look at the S50 wiring loom, and see how many of the different sized wires are there, and then decide how many to order. Saying that, they are not that expensive, so make sure you get more than you will need.

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

ok thanks Ian will order them when i finish work in the morning.
When i get them i will solder them as well as crimp them.Any chance you could e-mail me the wiring diagrams please or a list of what colour goes to what pin etc.
Reco-prop should get my prop today so when that gets back i need to make the gearbox mount ,then the engine loom and EWS wiring,also need to get one of those boxes to convert my rev counter,then the exhaust and brakes and its done !

[Jhonno]

what gear selector setup do you have to use with the s50 and e36 m3 box?

[jmc330i]

I cant remember which I used

I only had the 325i and E36 M3 5spd bits to play with and I seem to remember using bits from both to make it easier to fit.

I used the E36 M3 gearstick, and Im sure I used the E36 selector rod (part no.11) but the E30 'shifting arm' (part No.1).
Realoem E30 gearshift piccy

I think with using all the E36 parts, the M3 gearstick hit the plastic surround. Give me 10mins and I will go and have a look and see if I can remember what I did.

[jmc330i]

I remember now it was a bit of trial and error when I put mine in.

I used the E36 M3 gearstick and the E30 325i 'shifting arm' that holds the gearstick.

The selector rod Im sure was the E36 one, but I remember trying both and only one fitted without hitting the prop damper thing.
I cant find the one I didnt use, so I cant say for 100% which one I used.

Its easy enough to swap them though once the gearbox is in place, without the prop on. Just try one and see how it fits and how the gearstick moves in the cabin and then try the other. Thats how I found I needed to mix and match.

HTH

[ian332isport]

ok thanks Ian will order them when i finish work in the morning.
When i get them i will solder them as well as crimp them.Any chance you could e-mail me the wiring diagrams please or a list of what colour goes to what pin etc.
Reco-prop should get my prop today so when that gets back i need to make the gearbox mount ,then the engine loom and EWS wiring,also need to get one of those boxes to convert my rev counter,then the exhaust and brakes and its done !

Andy,

Sorry mate, I appear to have lost your e-mail address (again ). Send me a PM, and I'll e-mail the wiring details.

Cheers,

Ian.

[ian332isport]

what gear selector setup do you have to use with the s50 and e36 m3 box?

I fitted the 6 speed box, and the complete 6 speed E36 linkage. It all fitted straight on.

Ian.

[Jhonno]

just a thought bein a lazy bastard n all that..

what rad/fan are ppl running? e30/e36 rad with an electric 7 series fan?

[ian332isport]

just a thought bein a lazy bastard n all that..

what rad/fan are ppl running? e30/e36 rad with an electric 7 series fan?

I'm running a standard E36 M3 Evo radiator. Initially, I was running a 14" Pacet electric fan, but this was removed and replaced with a standard E30 Aircon Aux fan when I fitted the Aircon.

Because this is wired as a dual speed fan (only had the Pacet wired as a single speed), it actually keeps the engine cooler in traffic.

Ian.