M50 Developments - considering an M50? Read this.

[Karan]

just a thought but how bout finding a car side of the loom from a facelift car and modding that like evry1 else is doing...... prob the easiest way round the problem i think....

[teejay]

if i did that , then i would havta rip the whole wiring set of the off from the car, and i can't really get a post 88' whole body wiring set without buying a halfcut junk from the junkers......

so i have to make do with what i have and lookout for the wiring details

[buster]

hi guys,been racking my brains last few days and cant decide wether water hose from back of the head goes to the top heater matrix pipe or bottom one ?

bently manual says top but i think its bottom.
I used a dremell to cut plastic hoses so it saved me messing about removing heater pipes.

[jmc330i]

The bottom heater pipe is the inlet, and goes to the cylinder head.

I used a dremell to cut plastic hoses so it saved me messing about removing heater pipes.

How much of the pipes did you remove? I know its a very tight fit for the heater pipes.

[Martinaston]

Sorry to go back over old ground but i remember reading somthing about the new 7 series brake servo having a double chamber so they could make the unit smaller.
But i should imagine the thing is still too big for the E30 and be a bit expensive.

[buster]

i removed about an inch from the end of each pipe,i ordered the samco hoses but found that the original ones can be cut short and pipe up ok,one i just turned 180 degres and it has the right bend to line up.

I have got the plenum on and the golf servo will fit with a very small amount cut from the plenum,but i cant see how i am going to sqeeze the master cylinder in because there is no room for it,its hitting the intake duct !

[jmc330i]

i removed about an inch from the end of each pipe,i ordered the samco hoses but found that the original ones can be cut short and pipe up ok,one i just turned 180 degres and it has the right bend to line up.

Thats sounds like what Ive done with mine. Just got to find the other original hose and get it fitted.

I have got the plenum on and the golf servo will fit with a very small amount cut from the plenum,but i cant see how i am going to sqeeze the master cylinder in because there is no room for it,its hitting the intake duct !

Again, thats what Ive done. Im going to get around the master cylinder/intake boot problem by cutting about an inch (I dont know the exact amount yet) from that edge of the plenum and moving the oval shaped hole forward a little. And little bit of bending of the intake boot should help too.
This should leave room for the master cylinder and the brake fluid reservoir.

[randomdave325]

jmc. (james init) i'll be in taunton tomorrow in the afternoon. what time do you finish work? fancy a road test? and for the record people don't use a citroen zx fan as it is absolutly .
fitting a 406 one 2mo. it's well up for it. other than that 1040miles so far and it still loves it.

[buster]

i use an rs turbo one and its ok on the m20.I have seen another fan,or should i say twin fan set up that looks well man enough and cheap,range rover classic air con fans,cheap on ebay.worth a look.

[jmc330i]

jmc. (james init) i'll be in taunton tomorrow in the afternoon. what time do you finish work? fancy a road test?

Sorry mate, just seen this. I tried to call your mobile (left a message on answerphone), but I dont know if the number I got for you is still right.

[buster]

heater pipes in,golf servo and e30 m/c in,need to make a spacer now for the m/c.
Those who have made the spacer,it just goes inside the end of the m/c doesn't it ?

Hardest part of the s50 conversion so far,Trying to get rubber seal back in around the heater matrix pipes !!!!!!

[buster]

Ian,
do you know of a shorter master cylinder for the e30.Ive read a 25mm m/c from a 7 series,or possibly the m3 is 18% better and shorter.
Is this true ?

[ian332isport]

Ian,
do you know of a shorter master cylinder for the e30.Ive read a 25mm m/c from a 7 series,or possibly the m3 is 18% better and shorter.
Is this true ?

Andy,

Unfortunately, there is not a BMW master cylinder that is shorter than the E30 one. The ones from the M3 and 7 series have a larger bore, but are the same length.

I actually did a lot of research on shorter master cylinders, and did find that certain Audi/VW models use a shorter one with a suitable bore size. The reason I did not use one was because it would not mount on the Hydraulic booster unit. It may however fit okay on a vacuum servo.

Here is a picture of the Audi master against a standard 325i master.



Here is a picture that shows the size of spacer that would be required to get it to fit on a vacuum servo.



If you want the Audi master cylinder, it's probably hanging around in the garage. It's possible that I chucked it, but I don't usually get rid of stuff. I'll have a look anyway.

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

do you think it would be possible to turn down the round part that usually goes into the vacuum servo on the audi master cylinder so that it goes into the servo,also shorten the rod ? If i could do that then it should fit,but would depend on the thickness i suppose of the material on it.
Also,there are 4 take off s on the audi m/c,can i just plug 2 ?

[ian332isport]

do you think it would be possible to turn down the round part that usually goes into the vacuum servo on the audi master cylinder so that it goes into the servo,also shorten the rod ? If i could do that then it should fit,but would depend on the thickness i suppose of the material on it.
Also,there are 4 take off s on the audi m/c,can i just plug 2 ?

Andy,

As far as I remember, the diameter would actually fit inside the vacuum servo. The problem was the length of the piston rod on the Audi master cylinder.

It may well be possible to shorten the piston rod, or drill it out deeper so that it would bolt straight on. Without trying it though, it's hard to say for sure.

As for the outlets, it's just a case of blocking two of them off. Quite a lot of Audi/VW master cylinders have two blanking plugs fitted as standard, so it's not a problem.

Ian.

[buster]

great stuff Ian.My golf servo has a shortened rod anyway so it may work.I was going to have to make a spacer for it but with the audi master cylinder i may not have to.
Is the audi m/s the same size piston ?

Do you still have it,i will buy it off you if you can find it.

thanks
andy

[jmc330i]

My golf servo has a shortened rod anyway so it may work.I was going to have to make a spacer for it but with the audi master cylinder i may not have to.

Its quite likely that the Audi master cylinder will fit the Golf servo.

The one thing I found when looking for my Golf servo is that a lot of Audi, VW and Seat parts are the same or very similar.

You may have just found another brake option for the S50 conversion.

[buster]

I hope so james

[jmc330i]

Andy mate, youve probably said and i just cant see it, but what Golf servo are you using? Mk2 1300 Im guessing??

[ian332isport]

great stuff Ian.My golf servo has a shortened rod anyway so it may work.I was going to have to make a spacer for it but with the audi master cylinder i may not have to.
Is the audi m/s the same size piston ?

Do you still have it,i will buy it off you if you can find it.

thanks
andy

Hi Andy,

You can get the short Audi cylinder with a number of different piston sizes that will suit the E30. Which one you choose really depends on what brakes you plan to fit. If you have a basically standard brake setup, then there is a 23.81 bore, or a larger 25.40 if you are going for larger calipers, or want a hard brake pedal. If you let me know your preferred piston size, I will give you a list of suitable donor vehicles.

I'll have a look in the garage today, and let you know if I still have my Audi cylinder hanging around. If I still have it, it's yours for free mate

Cheers,

Ian.

[ian332isport]

Andy,

I've had a good look around, and no sign of the Audi master. Sorry

Ian.

[buster]

Ian
ok thanks for looking.I would like a 25 mm piston master cylinder because i am upgrading the brakes to 4 pots on the front.Can you tell me which one i need to get please.

James,
yeah im using the 1.3 mk2 golf servo.

[ian332isport]

Ian
ok thanks for looking.I would like a 25 mm piston master cylinder because i am upgrading the brakes to 4 pots on the front.Can you tell me which one i need to get please.

James,
yeah im using the 1.3 mk2 golf servo.

Andy,

These cars should have the 25mm cylinder:




Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

ok thanks for that Ian

[chu346]

I dunno if this is any good for you buster: https://secure9.nexternal.com/shared/St ... ID=47&All=

www.bimmerworld.com

I got one a couple off weeks ago. You will get taxed Ԛ£33 or so, by our customs

[buster]

what is it,it says link timed out and wont show.

[chu346]

Click on www.bimmerworld.com click on online catalog then look under the brakes section, then on to Performance Components and you should be able to find a 25mm master cylinder for a 325i.

[buster]

thanks but i think that master cylinder will be too long.Thats the problem i have at the moment with the standard one.I need a shorter one like the audi one Ian has shown.

[buster]

hi all.
having trouble getting hold of a audi master cylinder.Anyone know any good breakers ?

Ian,
I think im going to start the wiring now while im waiting for the prop to be done.Can you tell me what colour wires on the e36 side i need to connect to the e30 side please.
Do i need to get the top part of the c101 plug off an old e30 and cut it off,then solder the e36 ones to it ?

cheers
andy

[ian332isport]

Ian,
I think im going to start the wiring now while im waiting for the prop to be done.Can you tell me what colour wires on the e36 side i need to connect to the e30 side please.
Do i need to get the top part of the c101 plug off an old e30 and cut it off,then solder the e36 ones to it ?

cheers
andy

Andy,

I thought I had sent you my wiring charts. If not, PM me your e-mail address, and I'll send them across.

As for the connector, you have several choices:

1: Cut off the E30 car side connector, and splice an E36 one in it's place.
2: Cut off the E36 engine side connector and splice an E30 one in it's place.
3: Make an adaptor lead to fit between the original E30 & E36 connectors.

I chose to leave the car alone, and fit an E30 connector on the S50 engine harness. You can either cut one off an E30 engine loom and splice it in, or simply buy the connector from BMW, and fit new pins to the E36 loom. This is the neatest solution.

The BMW part number for the engine side of the C101 connector is:

12 52 1 707 283 - approx Ԛ£6

As for the pins that fit in this connector, you have two choices:

1: Get them from BMW.
2: Get them from somewhere else

I initially got some from BMW, but they decided it would be fun to pre crimp a length of green wire into the pins. Not a great idea if you want to crimp the pins onto the E36 S50 wires. If you want these, I have a big bag of them, but it's not ideal.

After a bit of research, I managed to find an alternative source for these pins. After even more research, I have found they are actually stocked by RS, so fairly easy to come by (my previous source was a bit more work). The RS part number is different depending on what sized wire you need to crimp onto. There's basically small, medium and large:

Small - 273-5348
Medium - 437-4709
Large - 437-4715

if you want the E30 car side crimps (sockets), you need these:

Small - 273-5354
Medium - 437-4721
Large - 437-4692

They vary in price from 11p to 14p each (+vat), so not expensive. If you have trouble ordering through RS, let me know as I have an account, and could order them for you. There may also be an RS Trade counter near by, where you could probably get them from. There's one in Newcastle if that's any use.

Newcastle Trade Counter
Dukesway West
Team Valley Trading Est.
Gateshead, Tyne & Wear
NE11 0PN

Tel: 0191 4910900

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

thanks Ian for that reply,very helpfull as always.
I am going to get an e30 engine side plug from an old e30 and then remove the e36 engine side connector and connect(solder or crimp,havent decided whats best)them to the e30 engine side plug so thats its a straight plug in to the e30 car side connector.

Newcastle isnt too far,but i can order them through work if i need some pins,but thanks for the offer on the ordering though

thanks
andy

[ian332isport]

Andy,

Unless you are crimping new pins onto the E36 harness, I would avoid crimping anything. I crimped new pins, and soldered them as well just to make sure.

If you are splicing an E30 plug onto the E36 harness, then please solder the joints. Also, it's worth staggering them along the length of the loom. If you solder all the wires at the same point, you will end up with a large bulge to hide. If you spread it out, it will be easier to hide.

You will probably need some of the pins anyway, as you will need to add more than the E30 connector comes with. My plug is fully populated without any spare holes.

If you find you need to remove any of the pins or sockets from the connectors, you will need a special pin removal tool. It's available from RS, but you can borrow mine if you need one.

Cheers,

Ian.

[jmc330i]

I crimped new pins, and soldered them as well just to make sure.

I thought I was being over careful when I did that, but atleast Im not the only one
I made a loom to go between the E30 & E36 connectors, cause I didnt want to cut either of the connectors off.

[buster]

good advice there,thanks for that guys.I think then it would be best to buy a new plug and new pins and sockets also.I didnt think about having all the soldered joints in one place and the fact it would be massive bulge to cover.The best solution is to put new pins on like you have.
Also by the sound of things i am going to have to put some new sockets in the car side connector also ? Probably need to do that for the old little e36 socket for the oil temp etc so that it can go through the c101 plug.
thankyou as always for top notch advice

ta
andy

[stulane]

Hi Guys,

I've read this post and i'm still a little stuck..

I'm getting all the parts together for my swap (e34 M50 2.5 VANOS) into my e30 320i.

The idiot who pulled the engine cut the loom so i need a replacement. I have a e36 non-vanos loom with ECU but i dont think thats gonna help.

What i need to know:
e34 or e36 loom? - can the e36 ecu be moved to the same location as the e30 or does it have to sit on the passenger side as in the e36?
ECU #'s? I'm not sure about this, a guy told me that i need a 413 ECU?

Pls let me know and then i can get the swap started.

Also need a e36 downpipe if anyone can help?

Thanks in advance.