M50 Developments - considering an M50? Read this.

[Brianmoooore]

E36 box will avoid issues with the gear shift linkage that you will get using the E30 box, but 5th gear on E36 box = 4th gear on E30 box.
To overcome this, you will need a diff for the E36 box, which is X 0.81 of that of the E30 diff.
I used a 3.07 open diff from an E28 525e, giving an e30 gearbox equivalent of 3.79.

[Sooty]

Thanks Guys. Youv'e made my mind up & stopped the headaches

Final solution #1:-
E34 525 engine.
E30 320 flywheel (cos it's about 12 lbs lighter than an E36 one).
E30 320 g/box (cos the ratios are closer to the Sport ratios than a 325).
E30 325 3.64:1 lsd diff.

Final solution #2:-
E34 525 engine.
E30 320 flywheel (as above).
E36 325 g/box.
E28 525e or 528 diff (if I can find one).

Time for bed said Zebedee

[buster]

I have noticed on the S50 sump there is a breather.Do i need to drill and tap a breather pipe into my m50 sump ?

[randomdave325]

Final solution #1:-
E34 525 engine.
E30 320 flywheel (cos it's about 12 lbs lighter than an E36 one).
E30 320 g/box (cos the ratios are closer to the Sport ratios than a 325).
E30 325 3.64:1 lsd diff.

Final solution #2:-
E34 525 engine.
E30 320 flywheel (as above).
E36 325 g/box.
E28 525e or 528 diff (if I can find one).

i don't want to complicate matters for you. but i wouldn't use the e30 flywheel. i'm using the 325 dual mass flywheel and still don't have enough torque. you really have to wind it up to get it going. i guess it would be worse with a lighter flywheel.
just a thought. gave mine a thorough road test yesterday. against a mr2 turbo, civic type r, 325 sport , 325 and a h26 (my old lump) . i'm happy to say i was between the the mr2 and the civic all the way. only let down by my suspension. it's amazing the difference a heavier lump makes. gotta raise the suspension now as the handling is none to clever at speed over bumpy roads. theres only so much bottoming out i can put up with.

[randomdave325]

i thought about the flywheel swap tho. if you do decide to do it let us know. buster. i think there a blank in the e34 sump. if it looks like it'll fit do it i reckon. it's got to be there for a reason.

[Karan]

Final solution #1:-
E34 525 engine.
E30 320 flywheel (cos it's about 12 lbs lighter than an E36 one).
E30 320 g/box (cos the ratios are closer to the Sport ratios than a 325).
E30 325 3.64:1 lsd diff.

Final solution #2:-
E34 525 engine.
E30 320 flywheel (as above).
E36 325 g/box.
E28 525e or 528 diff (if I can find one).

i don't want to complicate matters for you. but i wouldn't use the e30 flywheel. i'm using the 325 dual mass flywheel and still don't have enough torque. you really have to wind it up to get it going. i guess it would be worse with a lighter flywheel.
just a thought. gave mine a thorough road test yesterday. against a mr2 turbo, civic type r, 325 sport and a h26 (my old lump) . i'm happy to say i was between the the mr2 and the civic all the way. only let down by my suspension. it's amazing the difference a heavier lump makes. gotta raise the suspension now. theres only so much bottoming out i can put up with.

good stuff.... how did she go gainst the h26

[randomdave325]

we kept loosing him. i think it was more down to the driver than the car tho. as i said to him. i would beat me when the engine from that was in this. in his defence he's only had it 4 months and is running 18's so it much of been bumpy as hell. whereas i've had mine over 5 years and am more used to caning it.
i really really miss the h26. she used to fly. now i've just got an angry sounding low geared brick. i hope suspension, cams, diff and a chip will sort it out. still it's not all bad. the brakes are spot on. loads more feel than the standard servo. if they were going to let me down it would have been yesterday. the h26 nearly wrote off grays sport as it was. lol

[buster]

hmm,thats what i thought.I cant see the blank in the e34 one though

Ian,what did you do ?

[Karan]

we kept loosing him. i think it was more down to the driver than the car tho. as i said to him. i would beat me when the engine from that was in this.
i really really miss the h26. she used to fly. now i've just got an angry sounding low geared brick. i hope suspension, cams, diff and a chip will sort it out. still it's not all bad. the brakes are spot on. loads more feel than the standard servo. if they were going to let me down it would have been yesterday. the h26 nearly wrote off grays sport as it was. lol

u usin the little golf one dude? if so how did u fit/mod it?

i may use this with my s38 lump... as i appear to have enoiugh space for a vacuum servo

cheers mate
Karan

[ian332isport]

hmm,thats what i thought.I cant see the blank in the e34 one though

Ian,what did you do ?

Andy,

Rather than mess with the E34 alloy sump, I had a pipe spigot fitted on the side (towards the bottom) of the dipstick tube.

Cheers,

Ian.

[randomdave325]

u usin the little golf one dude? if so how did u fit/mod it?

just unbolt the e30 servo. push the master cylinder forward (no need to undo pipes) make a 10/12ish mm spacer from either 8mm bar or an 8mm bolt. put it in the master cylinder then slide on to the servo and check pedal height. adjust if necessary. razz on! you can shape the spacer using a drill and a grinder if you like. you'll see what i m mean when it's in front of you. i reckon it should be fine for m5 power. easier than messing about with the hydraulic set up. only 6 bolts and a hacksaw

[randomdave325]

hmm,thats what i thought.I cant see the blank in the e34 one though

i've got to admit that was a guess. having not seen the evo lump.
sorry bout that
dipstick tube sounds like the best plan. steel is easier to replace than alloy. i've got some pics of how i mounted the dipstick tube. i'll post them when i get chance

[Karan]

u usin the little golf one dude? if so how did u fit/mod it?

just unbolt the e30 servo. push the master cylinder forward (no need to undo pipes) make a 10/12ish mm spacer from either 8mm bar or an 8mm bolt. put it in the master cylinder then slide on to the servo and check pedal height. adjust if necessary. razz on! you can shape the spacer using a drill and a grinder if you like. you'll see what i m mean when it's in front of you. i reckon it should be fine for m5 power. easier than messing about with the hydraulic set up. only 6 bolts and a hacksaw

any adjustments required to the servo bulkhead side to fit and on the threaded road that comes out inside the car...

so the 10/12mm spacer is cos the rod in the servo is shorter on the golf?

[randomdave325]

any adjustments required to the servo bulkhead side to fit and on the threaded road that comes out inside the car...

no. none at all. just unbolt. bolt straight in. use the e30 clevis pin arrangement if you like. the joys of them being 80's german ate servo's

so the 10/12mm spacer is cos the rod in the servo is shorter on the golf

exactly!

[Karan]

any adjustments required to the servo bulkhead side to fit and on the threaded road that comes out inside the car...

no. none at all. just unbolt. bolt straight in. use the e30 clevis pin arrangement if you like. the joys of them being 80's german ate servo's

so the 10/12mm spacer is cos the rod in the servo is shorter on the golf

exactly!

u da man!!!!!!

[buster]

Cheers for the replies guys,
i think though i will drill and tap the sump as i can easily do this at work.Will do it right near the dipstick tube on the top.

Karan.
Did you buy the hydraulic servo and pipes etc ? If so i may want to buy them,let me know

[Karan]

Cheers for the replies guys,
i think though i will drill and tap the sump as i can easily do this at work.Will do it right near the dipstick tube on the top.

Karan.
Did you buy the hydraulic servo and pipes etc ? If so i may want to buy them,let me know

will let u know dude... but prob gonna be late july now....as im not working on the car til then
new sphere, e28 valve block, e23 booster..

was hunting for bits for ages......... still need pipes made obviously

[buster]

ok karan,cheers.

[buster]

question;
Does the m50 sump need the breather ?? Becasue the 525 sump doesnt have one so why does the s50 ??

Also i removed what i thought was a threaded coller to connect the air pipe on to out of the s50 sump but it isnt just a pipe fitting ,it has a long metal pipe about 4" long on the end so surely this will just suck up oil out

[Karan]

question;
Does the m50 sump need the breather ?? Becasue the 525 sump doesnt have one so why does the s50 ??

Also i removed what i thought was a threaded coller to connect the air pipe on to out of the s50 sump but it isnt just a pipe fitting ,it has a long metal pipe about 4" long on the end so surely this will just suck up oil out

maybe the crank case has one less breather on the s50... so if it was there id rather keep it.....

[buster]

your right but its the fact that the pipe connector extends into the bottom of the s50 sump that is bothering me.Why does it go in so far,surely it would draw oil up it and into the inlet plenumn

[Karan]

so r u saying that the s50 breather extends too far down into the e34 sump......... or does it extend the same into the s50 sump as standard?

....sounds like one for Ian....LOL

[Brianmoooore]

Probably irrelavent, but the M54 E39 sunp has a breather pipe teed into the bottom of the dipstick tube, like Ian says he has done.

[buster]

the breather extends into the sump the same as it did in the s50 sump,just i thought if its a breather why does it go so far down.It looks like it would suck oil out,or just the oil would go up it.

I am not too sure where this breather re joins either,i think its the inlet plenum.
I have seen a picture of that t peice bit on the base of the dipstick,i think it was a e36 one.

[ian332isport]

question;
Does the m50 sump need the breather ?? Becasue the 525 sump doesnt have one so why does the s50 ??

Also i removed what i thought was a threaded coller to connect the air pipe on to out of the s50 sump but it isnt just a pipe fitting ,it has a long metal pipe about 4" long on the end so surely this will just suck up oil out

Andy,

The S50 requires the extra fitting on the sump because it has an oil seperator on the side of the block, and also an oil drain on the underside of the plenum. Both of these need somewhere to drain into.

I'm not sure why it extends down into the oil. I suspect it's to stop oil being forced back up the pipe due to oil surge. With the pipe always submerged, this is less likely to happen. I see what you are saying about the vacuum in the inlet sucking up oil, but in practice this does not appear to happen.

Just fit the S50 extended pipe fitting into the top of the 'wing' on the E34 sump, and you should be okay. Make sure it's not in the way of the oil level sender underneath though.

Ian.

[Brianmoooore]

My M54 has the oil seperator fitted, and the bottom, presumably drain, tube from it connects, via a hose, to the tee at the bottom of the dipstick tube. This ties up nicely with Ian's description.

[buster]

hey Ian,you got a mention in this months PBMW mag for the help on the evo converted m3,well done m8

is he a member of the zone ??

Will post a pic of my sump later when the hosting web site comes back on line.

You will also be getting your name in print hopefully when i get mine done !

[ian332isport]

hey Ian,you got a mention in this months PBMW mag for the help on the evo converted m3,well done m8

is he a member of the zone ??

Will post a pic of my sump later when the hosting web site comes back on line.

You will also be getting your name in print hopefully when i get mine done !

Hi Andy,

Yes, I believe Henry is a 'zoner', but not sure if he's regular (oooer missus).

I look forward to the piccies

Ian.

[buster]

heres a pic of the pipe fitting out of the s50 sump ,drilled and tapped into the m50 sump next to the dipstick hole.

I added a copper washer just to make sure it seals up nice.




Here it is veiwed from through the oil sender hole,its clear.

[randomdave325]

job done. top work

[buster]

cheers dave.
Just about to put new pump on,isnt there any gasket for it ???
Not one listed on the etk any one know if there should be one ?

Also,does anyone now which main bearing cap had the braket on for the oil pump ?? i remember torquing it to 20nm but now ive got the angle gauge i was going to do the remainder 50 degrees but i cant remember which one it was i dont want to start disturbing caps which are tight and ok. please help someone !!

[buster]

right guys i know i keep asking stupid questions all the time but im just worried im going to screw up the engine which i really was streaching to buy in the first place.So to ease up on the daft ones all the time is there a manual i can buy for the s50b32 engine ?

BTW i sorted the main bearing cap,lined it up with old pump to see which one it was,but still unsure about sealing oil pump face

[buster]

inside the e34 oil pan is a grille type thing,does this need removing to get the sump on as i cant seem to get it on ?

heres a bad pic of it.



I have had to remove it as it wouldn't go on with it in place.I don't know why it had it,maybe becasue its a 520 sump,who knows.

Its on engine now.

Thanks Ian for the phone call to help me out,i was pulling my hair out trying to get that sump on.

[randomdave325]

it sound like you've already sorted it now but i removed the baffle plate that bolts to the bottom of the block and left the one on the sump! mines a 520 sump. should be the same

[buster]

the baffle plate in the sump wouldnt move over enough to allow the holes to line up,the baffle plate was hitting the inside of the block.

The sump holes were no more than 10mm out because the edges of the baffle were hard up against the inside of the s50 bottom end.
So i just removed it.

Now i cant get the 5 series dip stick in because there is a round thing bolted to the block which i think is piped up to the vanos units and its in the way