It looks like my M20 is on it's death bed and I still have my M30 engine sitting here waiting to be fitted to something. My car is a 320i touring currently fitted with a 2.5 M20, so this will be coming out ASAP.
The M30 has already had a new waterpump, thermostat and sump gasket. It is also fitted an M10 flywheel, M10 paddle clutch and M10 gearbox. I also have Lee's mounts ready to fit. So the lump is pretty much ready to drop in.
Things that will take further time compared to an M20 to M20 swap are going to be things like fabbing rad mounts (E34 short 535i rad), fabbing electric fan mounts (and wiring), sleeving the M30 downpipes. Also my engine is a later M30 without the C101 connector, so I will have to splice the engine loom in too. Also I will have to make mounts for the M30 airbox, E34 washer bottle etc etc.
Coolant pipe wise will I just mix and match E34 and E30 hosing?
How quick do you think I'll do it?! I'm experienced in engine swaps, especially removing them. I'm also handy with a welder and grinder...
M30 Touring Build - Done!
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Speedtouch
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I'd say a couple of days or so, to do the job properly and allow for the inevitable snags and holdups that will be encountered.
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
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ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
If everything is going perfect; 1 day out, 2 days in, since a perfect swap doesn't excist and something will go wrong; at least a week. My build took over a month, due to an electric problem, while the engine was ready to run in 1 1/2 days..
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Rav335uk
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Rob, you should be able to sort this out in a weekend at your place.
You already have most of it by reading your list.
Exhaust wise, do you have a single log manifold or a 2 piece??
You already have most of it by reading your list.
Exhaust wise, do you have a single log manifold or a 2 piece??
If you Got "Haters",Then your doing something Right!
CR24v??? Where's it all gone?? LOL
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leeparkes
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This will be your biggest pita imo.rob0r wrote:Also my engine is a later M30 without the C101 connector, so I will have to splice the engine loom in too.
Otherwise its a weekends work
Cypriotgeeza wrote:I done both my mates in my old 318is
felt so proud,even tried it with a E30 325i and got put in my place..
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Bristol_Jer
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What does it have instead of the c101, a different style plug? I've got the start of a guide to fitting the later style c101 plug, not finished it yet as I want to make sure everything works as it should (which it doesn't yet!), might help with wiring colours?
Thanks for the advice! The M20 is getting through 2 litres of water a day and suddenly started misfiring... I assumed when I started this thread that water was getting into the chambers. It turns out the fuel gauge was actually lieing and 5L of petrol stopped the misfiring! Still the engine is losing 2L of water a day and it actually turns out the water pump is leaking badly, so as long as I keep the water topped up I'm not in a such a rush for the M30 
I expect the M30 conversion will be happening in about a week or two's time, after I attend to the GF's corolla
. I’ve been threatening to do this conversion in a number of different E30s (previously a red chromie 316) and I’ve had all the bits for a long time. The current M20 also needs a new clutch as well as a waterpump so it makes sense to fit the M30 with a brand new clutch and pump in the 320i touring!
Prop”¦ With the M10 box it’s a bit of an unknown factor. My touring is a 320i manual but it’s fitted with a 2.5, I believe it has the 320i prop and box. I’m hoping the 320i prop will work, which has been rumoured, otherwise other props won’t be hard to get. I’ve heard that 325i gear linkage fits with the M10 box, but I’ll see if the 320i linkage will work, maybe not.
Rav, twin manifolds. I still have the complete E34 535i exhaust sitting outside waiting for me to chop it up. I’ve read that the E30 M20 pipes slide into the remainder of the M30 downpipes, I’ll probably weld them together. I need to replace some of the downpipe/manifold bolts though.
I hope there’s clearance for my E36 rack, as it currently clips the M20 downpipes as it is. My rack is fitted in the further back PAS holes, the linkage is E30 with the bush removed. I will also be using no PAS on the E36 rack, it can’t keep up when I’m drifting!
Lee, I’ve always considered the wiring an afterthought! One of my mates is very handy with his BMW wire colours so fingers crossed this shouldn’t be an issue.
Bristol_Jer, it sounds like it might be the same as yours, I just remember it won’t fit up to the touring’s C101.
I expect the M30 conversion will be happening in about a week or two's time, after I attend to the GF's corolla
. I’ve been threatening to do this conversion in a number of different E30s (previously a red chromie 316) and I’ve had all the bits for a long time. The current M20 also needs a new clutch as well as a waterpump so it makes sense to fit the M30 with a brand new clutch and pump in the 320i touring!Prop”¦ With the M10 box it’s a bit of an unknown factor. My touring is a 320i manual but it’s fitted with a 2.5, I believe it has the 320i prop and box. I’m hoping the 320i prop will work, which has been rumoured, otherwise other props won’t be hard to get. I’ve heard that 325i gear linkage fits with the M10 box, but I’ll see if the 320i linkage will work, maybe not.
Rav, twin manifolds. I still have the complete E34 535i exhaust sitting outside waiting for me to chop it up. I’ve read that the E30 M20 pipes slide into the remainder of the M30 downpipes, I’ll probably weld them together. I need to replace some of the downpipe/manifold bolts though.
I hope there’s clearance for my E36 rack, as it currently clips the M20 downpipes as it is. My rack is fitted in the further back PAS holes, the linkage is E30 with the bush removed. I will also be using no PAS on the E36 rack, it can’t keep up when I’m drifting!
Lee, I’ve always considered the wiring an afterthought! One of my mates is very handy with his BMW wire colours so fingers crossed this shouldn’t be an issue.
Bristol_Jer, it sounds like it might be the same as yours, I just remember it won’t fit up to the touring’s C101.
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Rav335uk
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Rob, the reason the M10 box is an unknown area is many believe it won't hold up to the torque from the m30 engine, but I think you say you're going to use a Paddle clutch set up??
The M20 pipes will slide staight in to the M30 down pipes and can be welded no problems.
Regarding the prop, I had a cusom one made up consisting of the front half of the E34 and the rear from the 320i, fully balanced for £100, i found that an quicker and easier way.
Lee has gone and used a 325 prop, i think the 320 is slightly short fo this application.
He swapped over the output gubbing on his E34 box to ususe the E30 guibo.
As to the E36 rack, can't help you there myself, but lee might be able to answer that better.
The M20 pipes will slide staight in to the M30 down pipes and can be welded no problems.
Regarding the prop, I had a cusom one made up consisting of the front half of the E34 and the rear from the 320i, fully balanced for £100, i found that an quicker and easier way.
Lee has gone and used a 325 prop, i think the 320 is slightly short fo this application.
He swapped over the output gubbing on his E34 box to ususe the E30 guibo.
As to the E36 rack, can't help you there myself, but lee might be able to answer that better.
If you Got "Haters",Then your doing something Right!
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leeparkes
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Guibo with an E36 rack will hit the manifold, the front manifold needs cutting and swaying towards the block for it to clear.
Regarding the prop im sure there was a thread in tech help not that long ago.
Regarding the prop im sure there was a thread in tech help not that long ago.
Cypriotgeeza wrote:I done both my mates in my old 318is
felt so proud,even tried it with a E30 325i and got put in my place..
Rav, I will find out about how much an M10 box can take, I have at least another E30 box. Yeah, I've fitted a paddle clutch to it, looks the part, lets just hope it holds up to a lot of clutch kicks!
E36 rack wise... I've got the rack mounted in the back "PAS" holes and the linkage is running no guibo, the two halves are bolted face to face where the guibo used to be. I'll see what happens when the engine goes in...
Prop, I'll wait and see. If I need a 325 prop or bits off it then I'll worry about that later.
This swap is a little less urgent since I'm now using my E21 M50 on the road for the time being, still it would nice to have it done in the next week or so. Realistically I've only got weeknights to do it and the car is 8miles from my home!
E36 rack wise... I've got the rack mounted in the back "PAS" holes and the linkage is running no guibo, the two halves are bolted face to face where the guibo used to be. I'll see what happens when the engine goes in...
Prop, I'll wait and see. If I need a 325 prop or bits off it then I'll worry about that later.
This swap is a little less urgent since I'm now using my E21 M50 on the road for the time being, still it would nice to have it done in the next week or so. Realistically I've only got weeknights to do it and the car is 8miles from my home!
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staley_turbo
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Mine took 2 days (non tubs) to swap. Easy when you have done one already but if its your first time I'd allow a little more time. I'm using 325 prop, works fine. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about props?
I might as well make this my build thread! The story so far... I bought an E34 535i manual and an early chrome E30 316 just before xmas last year, both very cheap. The plan was to fit the M30 into the 316 using the existing M10 gearbox. I got as far as breaking the E34, removing the engine from the 316 and replacing consumables on the M30. I also started to break my E30 touring (the one I'm now fitting the M30 into ) to supply some bits and pieces for the 316. I lost enthuisiasm for the project with summer around the corner and I rebuilt the touring to use for the summer shows I normally attend. The 316 was pushed into a corner and forgotten about...
So here's where I got up too, not pictured is the sump gasket, waterpump and thermostat replacement.
A late M30B35 from an E34 535i manual
M30 dualmass on the left, M10 single mass on the right
If I'm using an M10 box/fly I have to use an M10 clutch, these won't put up with the extra 120 or so bhp extra over an M10. So I got a paddle clutch for it, rated to 250bhp.
All fitted up
Got some E30 engine mounts from Lee , sprayed them gold, BLING
) to supply some bits and pieces for the 316. I lost enthuisiasm for the project with summer around the corner and I rebuilt the touring to use for the summer shows I normally attend. The 316 was pushed into a corner and forgotten about...So here's where I got up too, not pictured is the sump gasket, waterpump and thermostat replacement.
A late M30B35 from an E34 535i manual
M30 dualmass on the left, M10 single mass on the right
If I'm using an M10 box/fly I have to use an M10 clutch, these won't put up with the extra 120 or so bhp extra over an M10. So I got a paddle clutch for it, rated to 250bhp.
All fitted up
Got some E30 engine mounts from Lee
, sprayed them gold, BLINGI keep swapping between my proper camera and my camera phone, hence why some photos are awful!
The touring finally overheated and it was pouring out steam from the exhaust, that makes it my 2nd M20 cylinder head cracking! So I might as well put the M30 to good use... Here are some mandatory "I have removed my engine photos"
3 hours later... And it was gone.
My largeish and solidish Ford RS2000 engine mounts from Burton, cheap too. Bought them years ago for another project, so I finally get to use them.
The touring finally overheated and it was pouring out steam from the exhaust, that makes it my 2nd M20 cylinder head cracking! So I might as well put the M30 to good use... Here are some mandatory "I have removed my engine photos"
3 hours later... And it was gone.
My largeish and solidish Ford RS2000 engine mounts from Burton, cheap too. Bought them years ago for another project, so I finally get to use them.
I spent a few hours the other night getting a few things done. I removed the M20 from the workshop and replaced it with the M30.
I then turned my attention to the cooling situation. I've learned from the past that it's easier to do this while the engine is not fitted! I'm fitting twin spal fans and the E34 535i rad. This rad is very wide and not so tall, so the twin fans were an ideal choice for maximum area for cooling. One problem though... The bonnet lock and surrounding metal was in the way.
So I cut it out... I have bonnet pins somewhere I can fit... So I made some simple brackets and mounted the fans into place.
The E34 535i rad fits into the existing M20 rad mountings very nicely. I might just zip tie the bottom left corner just in case though
I then turned my attention to the cooling situation. I've learned from the past that it's easier to do this while the engine is not fitted! I'm fitting twin spal fans and the E34 535i rad. This rad is very wide and not so tall, so the twin fans were an ideal choice for maximum area for cooling. One problem though... The bonnet lock and surrounding metal was in the way.
So I cut it out... I have bonnet pins somewhere I can fit... So I made some simple brackets and mounted the fans into place.
The E34 535i rad fits into the existing M20 rad mountings very nicely. I might just zip tie the bottom left corner just in case though
I got the engine in last night, it was surprisingly easy, I don't know whether it was the smaller M10 box or what!
Rad fits... just
I think the manifold might need work. It's sitting on the linkage!
The good news is that the prop and gear linkage from the touring fits perfectly, I'm not 100% sure if they are 320i or 325i items since the car is a 320i with a 2.5 and was done in the past. I undid the sliding joint and it had to pull out maybe 1-2mm. It all bolted up lovely.
It seems that my M30 loom has got a C101 as it connected straight onto the wiring loom. All the coolant hoses look like they will work with some shortening, but the header tank hose will need lengthening to use the M20 tank on the passenger wing.
So far so good!
Rad fits... just
I think the manifold might need work
. It's sitting on the linkage!The good news is that the prop and gear linkage from the touring fits perfectly, I'm not 100% sure if they are 320i or 325i items since the car is a 320i with a 2.5 and was done in the past. I undid the sliding joint and it had to pull out maybe 1-2mm. It all bolted up lovely.
It seems that my M30 loom has got a C101 as it connected straight onto the wiring loom. All the coolant hoses look like they will work with some shortening, but the header tank hose will need lengthening to use the M20 tank on the passenger wing.
So far so good!
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Rav335uk
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Is that engine in POS 3 Rob???
Regarding your exhaust flange, can it not be heated up and rotated 90 degrees???
Mine did.
Regarding your exhaust flange, can it not be heated up and rotated 90 degrees???
Mine did.
If you Got "Haters",Then your doing something Right!
CR24v??? Where's it all gone?? LOL
As far as I know Rav, it's on the forward most holes of Lee's mounts, meaning it's as far back as I can get it. It looks close on the rad, but I'm not bothered. The plastic cover is just slightly sitting on the upper rad casing, not on the fins or anything!
Interesting thought on the manifold... I have a huge oxy-acetelene setup sitting next to the car!
Interesting thought on the manifold... I have a huge oxy-acetelene setup sitting next to the car!
Since there's been talk of my engine and the lack of space... These are how my mounts are bolted in.
As far as I know that's position 3 and the furthest back I can mount the engine, unless someone can tell me different? If I put it in position 2, the rear holes on the mounts, surely the engine will be further forward and there will be no chance of mounting my rad?
As mentioned I'm not worried about rad clearance, it won't cause any problems as it is.
As far as I know that's position 3 and the furthest back I can mount the engine, unless someone can tell me different? If I put it in position 2, the rear holes on the mounts, surely the engine will be further forward and there will be no chance of mounting my rad?
As mentioned I'm not worried about rad clearance, it won't cause any problems as it is.
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Rav335uk
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That's fine where it is, I don't have my dizzy cap cover on.
BTW, did you change the dizzy and rotor for a new one while it was out?
BTW, did you change the dizzy and rotor for a new one while it was out?
If you Got "Haters",Then your doing something Right!
CR24v??? Where's it all gone?? LOL
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leeparkes
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Pull the dizzy cap cover off and see how close it is. iirc Rav yours almost touches with the thick E34 rad.
This is mine in pos 3 with the E28 rad
That clutch & fly will make this M30 spin up proper, did you weigh the fly?
This is mine in pos 3 with the E28 rad
That clutch & fly will make this M30 spin up proper, did you weigh the fly?
Cypriotgeeza wrote:I done both my mates in my old 318is
felt so proud,even tried it with a E30 325i and got put in my place..
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Speedtouch
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Very good progress for a day's work! It'll be interesting to see how this pans out...
It'll be interesting to see how this pans out...///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
Last night before I got stuck in I had to replace the drive and PAS belt on the GF's Toyota Corolla which robbed me of some time. Then I did some odd jobs getting the engine ready such as...
Making a hybrid M20/M30 heater/header coolant pipe
Swapping the battery positive to the starter since I'm keeping the battery in the bay
Shortened and figured out which fuel pipe goes where
Swapped black for brown temp sensor, also replacing the connector as it fell off the M30 loom
Wiring the ECU live back to the battery, providing a negative cable and connecting any loose wires
By the end of the night...
[youtube][/youtube]
Engines are so much cooler without exhaust manifolds! Flames and loudness!
It took me AGES to get it running. The engine was turning over so the first thing I checked was the fuel pipes incase I got them on wrong, they were ok. Next I took a plug out to see if A) it was wet B) if it was firing. It was soaked in petrol but there was no spark at all! Cue the next 45mins going through the car with a leadlight and checking everything. Lastly I noticed the coil connection had two random aftermarket looking wires hanging off it, and then I remembed it used to have a dodgy alarm/immobiliser on the E34 donor... Sure enough there was no coil connection as the wires were not joined due to the missing immobiliser that used bypass the coil... One circle terminal later and the engine fired up without hesitation.
Still a fair bit left to do. Annoyingly I've lost the waterpump pulley, bolts and drive belt after I swapped the waterpump... Anyone got them spare?
Making a hybrid M20/M30 heater/header coolant pipe
Swapping the battery positive to the starter since I'm keeping the battery in the bay
Shortened and figured out which fuel pipe goes where
Swapped black for brown temp sensor, also replacing the connector as it fell off the M30 loom
Wiring the ECU live back to the battery, providing a negative cable and connecting any loose wires
By the end of the night...
[youtube][/youtube]
Engines are so much cooler without exhaust manifolds! Flames and loudness!
It took me AGES to get it running. The engine was turning over so the first thing I checked was the fuel pipes incase I got them on wrong, they were ok. Next I took a plug out to see if A) it was wet B) if it was firing. It was soaked in petrol but there was no spark at all! Cue the next 45mins going through the car with a leadlight and checking everything. Lastly I noticed the coil connection had two random aftermarket looking wires hanging off it, and then I remembed it used to have a dodgy alarm/immobiliser on the E34 donor... Sure enough there was no coil connection as the wires were not joined due to the missing immobiliser that used bypass the coil... One circle terminal later and the engine fired up without hesitation.
Still a fair bit left to do. Annoyingly I've lost the waterpump pulley, bolts and drive belt after I swapped the waterpump... Anyone got them spare?
I'm jealous of skills like yours! My M30 Touring has been an absolute headache of a project for nearly 2 years (with large parts of inactivity thanks to my wife giving birth to our son, then shipping the car to someone to finish who was supposed to take a few weeks and ended up taking 9 months, and was an utter fucktard).
But now it's running, I'm so glad I didn't kick the whole sorry mess into a ditch on fire - it's a monster to drive, you'll love yours when it's done.
But now it's running, I'm so glad I didn't kick the whole sorry mess into a ditch on fire - it's a monster to drive, you'll love yours when it's done.
Last night I got a few more things done. The fans and radiators were bolted in, the top and bottom hoses were trimmed and fitted and I added coolant and bled it up. With the engine being totally dry this took forever! It didn't help that the bleed screw in the thermostat housing sheared off...
With an E36 rack, there is no clearance for the front exhaust manifold and downpipe, so I got stuck in last night.
No chance it's going on like that!
I chopped the flange off the manifold to see how much room I had to the linkage, not a lot!
I cut the manifold nearly all the way through, bolted the manifold back onto the engine and bent it towards the block until I got enough clearance
Patched it up with my chunky welding!
As I've bent it towards the block, the flange will also be pointing towards the block, making fitting a downpipe very tricky. I tack welded the flange on and bent it back into a better position for a downpipe
Patched this up, and my completed manifold
Loads of room now, next job is to modify the downpipe to suit...
It's getting there!
With an E36 rack, there is no clearance for the front exhaust manifold and downpipe, so I got stuck in last night.
No chance it's going on like that!
I chopped the flange off the manifold to see how much room I had to the linkage, not a lot!
I cut the manifold nearly all the way through, bolted the manifold back onto the engine and bent it towards the block until I got enough clearance
Patched it up with my chunky welding!
As I've bent it towards the block, the flange will also be pointing towards the block, making fitting a downpipe very tricky. I tack welded the flange on and bent it back into a better position for a downpipe
Patched this up, and my completed manifold
Loads of room now, next job is to modify the downpipe to suit...
It's getting there!
I know how you feel, my E21 323i M50 took me years, more because the shell was completely shot and it was a complete restoration! Because the car wasn't finished in time for summer shows I ditched the car each year to concentrate on getting other cars done in time. I often wouldn't touch it for 8-10months at a time!ShineOn wrote:I'm jealous of skills like yours! My M30 Touring has been an absolute headache of a project for nearly 2 years (with large parts of inactivity thanks to my wife giving birth to our son, then shipping the car to someone to finish who was supposed to take a few weeks and ended up taking 9 months, and was an utter fucktard).
But now it's running, I'm so glad I didn't kick the whole sorry mess into a ditch on fire - it's a monster to drive, you'll love yours when it's done.
This one is being done out of necessity as I don't have any other car to drive!! I can't wait though
Cheers!
Thanks! Fortunately my mate who has a unit on my farm had a box full of M30 spares, so I got that sorted last night, so not to worry! Thanks anyway.zaust wrote:Well done fella. I think I may have a spare pully will be able to have a look on Sunday for you.
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Bristol_Jer
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Nice work! My conversion has taken 9 months of odd weekends and weekday evenings so am jealous of your progress! Although I have replaced all the bushes and converted the rear brakes to disc ones 
I've got an e46 rack to fit on mine, think I'm just going to leave the car with my Dad's mate and say 'make the exhaust fit around the rack' as I can't weld for shit
I've got an e46 rack to fit on mine, think I'm just going to leave the car with my Dad's mate and say 'make the exhaust fit around the rack' as I can't weld for shit