M10 box - clutch issues

[E30_Jatt]

---EDIT--- I didn't want to start a new thread so please see latest post at bottom

Today I came to fit the propshaft after replacing the centre bearing, and realised that the front part of my propshaft is too short.

I then measured from the diff flange to the gearbox prop doughnut and got a measurement of 1500mm.

The propshaft I got with the car is a total length of 1475mm. I am not quite sure if this is the original 316i prop or a different item.

What I wanted to know is, is there a prop from another E30 I can utilise which will be the right length or recommendations for places in and around the London/slough area that can lengthen and balance the prop.

Thanks
AJ

[rob0r]

90% sure it's 320i. I fitted this combo into a 320i manual touring with a 2.5 engine swap and I assume that the original 320i box was used, keeping the 320i prop and gear linkage. This also matches what others have said, that the 320i prop is slightly longer as the box is slightly shorter, like the M10 box compared to the M30. Either way, the prop and linkage on that touring was a perfect fit.

I'm planning on M30ing another 320i, this time it was an auto converted to manual. Fingers crossed that the prop and linkage fit....

Just make sure you get a clutch that is up to it. I used an uprated M10 paddle clutch from CG clutches and I wasn't totally convinced it was holding on hard launches.

[Rav335uk]

I think ROb's right, as the 320i gearbox is shorter, thus prop is longer.

[kewliost]

Im doing this conversion too with m30 and getrag 240, i contacted cg clutches about an m10 clutch and they want to know whether the car has AC? Is there different flywheels on the m10 5 speed cars with the getrag 240?

The flywheel i have is 6.3kg's and has a slightly raised friction surface like the m20 flywheel.

Also i was looking at the dual friction clutches they have, you dont think that they are up to the task of holding the m30 torque?

I asked them what the rating of the clutches where but they havnt replied to my email yet and most people just say "she'll be right" without telling you ratings

[jimbom30cab]

E30_Jatt

I've got a 320i prop in the garage, do you need me to measure it ?

[rob0r]

The CG clutch I bought was around £250 and looked liked this...


I think for reasonable use (IE not drifting) it was pretty good, but for what I wanted I wasn't sure. I didn't actually take the car drifting with the clutch before I sold it, just was a hunch. The guy at CG couldn't handle the fact I wanted an M10 clutch to go behind an M30, his head exploded at the concept! All you can ask for is an uprated M10 clutch.

Another trick that I will be trying in the future... E30 M3 flywheels allow the use of the bigger M3/M20 spec clutches. I bagged an M3 fly a few months ago and bought an M20 paddle clutch a while back. These should fit inside an M10 getrag 240 and should work with the M30.

[kewliost]

Yeah he replied to my email and said he cant help me without knowing if the car had AC or not so i didn't even bother pursuing it i just went and got a SPEC stage 2+ kit, which is rated at 269 ft-lb or 360nm and was probably cheaper at the end of the day.

Asking a few local places in Aus and no-one needed to know if it had AC all they asked is whether it was a 4 or 5 speed :/

http://www.specclutchsuperstore.com/197 ... 15434.html

Whats it like driving the 6 puck clutches? I was told to steer clear of them for daily duties

[kewliost]

Also early m10 flywheels from like 2002's and some e12's have the 228mm flywheel that you can use an m20/m3 clutch on with a getrag 240 combo and e21 323i TO bearing.

I was looking at swapping the ring gears from an m10 flywheel onto an e30 323i flywheel so i could use an m20 clutch - the m20 ring gear is 1mm larger on the mounting surface and the ring gear is 1mm thinner. So i think you have to machine 1mm off the ring gear mounting surface of the m20 flywheel to fit the m10 ring gear.

If you just mounted the m10 ring gear on you would need a lot of heat to get it on and it would be 1mm larger in dia (0.5mm on each side) not sure if that would make a difference or not.

This will be my back up but i wont be using my car for drifting so i think the SPEC clutch will be fine

[rob0r]

That 5 puck was fine for daily driving, I really didn't think it was that much worse than an OEM clutch, but that is still a sprung disc. You can get unsprung puck discs and I have heard that if not on a dual mass flywheel then these are brutal. My M20 paddle clutch is unsprung

Yeah thats right about the early M10 flys. I had a look on ebay for an M10 228mm clutch flywheel and bagged a used E30 M3 one for £65 which is exactly what I needed. So my final setup will be:

E28 M30B34 with later E34 1.3 motronic
E30 M10 getrag 240
E30 S14 flywheel
E30 M20 228mm paddle clutch
Whatever release bearing needed!
E30 320i prop and gear linkage.

[jimbom30cab]

Whatever release bearing needed!
E30 320i prop and gear linkage.

Rob, i'm pretty sure that almost all the release bearings are common so any M20 should be fin

I've got an 320i gear linkage here if you need it measuring, i can compare it to a 325i linkage also so you can see exactly how much longer the 320i is ?

[kewliost]

You will need a 30mm TO bearing with an m20 clutch kit in a getrag 240 as the m10 clutch kit stack height is 5mm taller than the m20 one

I will measure a stock Sachs m20 clutch kit and flywheel against the m10 one I ordered when it arrives

[E30_Jatt]

E30_Jatt

I've got a 320i prop in the garage, do you need me to measure it ?

Yes please, if you can.


I also went for a CG motorsport clutch, I asked for ratings when I was buying the clutch but wasn't given them, and just told that it will be up to the job. Looks the same as the one in rob0r's pic. Will find out how good it is when I get the car on the road.

[Rav335uk]

Just looked on their site, can't see one listed for the M30 5series 3.5

[rob0r]

Let us know how it works Jatt! Would be good to get a 2nd opinion

[Quaser]

can you not loosen the centre nut and extend it a bit? surely you can get 25mm out of it

[E30_Jatt]

can you not loosen the centre nut and extend it a bit? surely you can get 25mm out of it

I thought about the same thing, but the problem is the front half is too short, therefore the centre bearing sits forward of its correct position and does not line up with the holes which it mounts to.

[Quaser]

have you got the doughnut on there in between the gearbox and the prop??

[E30_Jatt]

have you got the doughnut on there in between the gearbox and the prop??

yup, bought a new one just before I went to fit the prop.

[leeparkes]

I then measured from the diff flange to the gearbox prop doughnut and got a measurement of 1500mm.

The propshaft I got with the car is a total length of 1475mm.

FWIW the 325i prop is 1483mm (which sounds like what you have)
320i prop is 1526mm.
Thats off realoem though, a genuine measurement would be good,

come on Jim get the tape out.

[leeparkes]

I thought about the same thing, but the problem is the front half is too short, therefore the centre bearing sits forward of its correct position and does not line up with the holes which it mounts to.

Something may be up with your prop, iirc even if the centre bearing is bolted up you can still extend it on the splines, centre bearing is mounted on the rear half of the prop so shouldnt move.


Just another thought if you say you need a prop @ 1500mm the E36 328i manual prop is 1492mm so near perfect.
Also the added bonus is it uses the big beefier rubber guibo (same size as standard M30)
Problem is would an M30 gearbox flange fit on a M10 box to make it work?

[E30_Jatt]

I thought about the same thing, but the problem is the front half is too short, therefore the centre bearing sits forward of its correct position and does not line up with the holes which it mounts to.

Something may be up with your prop, iirc even if the centre bearing is bolted up you can still extend it on the splines, centre bearing is mounted on the rear half of the prop so shouldnt move.


Just another thought if you say you need a prop @ 1500mm the E36 328i manual prop is 1492mm so near perfect.
Also the added bonus is it uses the big beefier rubber guibo (same size as standard M30)
Problem is would an M30 gearbox flange fit on a M10 box to make it work?

That's strange because I'm sure the centre bearing on mine is mounted on the front half of the prop. I will have to check it again, but I think some models did have it on the rear half.

Regarding if the M30 flange would mate up to an M10 box I wouldn't know, but maybe some one like rob0r or Jim may know?

[E30_Jatt]

---Latest Issue---

I went to bleed the clutch today, after trying to bleed it several times and still getting little to no resistance in the pedal, it looked like the master cylinder was dead.

I purchased and fitted the new master cylinder and realised quite quickly that I still have the same problem. The clutch pedal still has little to no resistance, the clutch slave was a new item I got with the car. I have checked the slave and it does not seem to have a leaky seal. When the piston is pushed in, it comes back out on its own with no issues of leaking any brake fluid.

What I was wondering was, is the normal e30 slave cylinder good to use with an m10 box? Or should I be using a e34 item? Or could I be missing something else?

Any help appreciated
AJ

[Rav335uk]

I use an M20 slave on the M30 box.
The only guy I know who used an M10 box on his M30 was "Robor" but not sure what slave he used without reading his build thread.

[johnl320]

I thought about the same thing, but the problem is the front half is too short, therefore the centre bearing sits forward of its correct position and does not line up with the holes which it mounts to.

Something may be up with your prop, iirc even if the centre bearing is bolted up you can still extend it on the splines, centre bearing is mounted on the rear half of the prop so shouldnt move.


Just another thought if you say you need a prop @ 1500mm the E36 328i manual prop is 1492mm so near perfect.
Also the added bonus is it uses the big beefier rubber guibo (same size as standard M30)
Problem is would an M30 gearbox flange fit on a M10 box to make it work?

Standard e30 prop has the centre bearing on the front half of the prop and is not adjustable, the rear half has the splines which extend. E30 M3 and e36 items are the opposite.

I have had this exact problem with the prop centre bearing sitting too far forward for the mounting holes. My solutiion was to drill new mounting holes for it. It his lasted for 2 years with no dramas.

[leeparkes]

E30 M3 and e36 items are the opposite.

Must be what im thinking of.

[E30_Jatt]

Yep you guys are right about the prop centre bearing being opposite way round on the M3 and E36.

I was able to sort out the problem with the short prop, I needed a 320i prop. Sweep on here had one and after getting some measurements it was good to go, its now fitted and it's a perfect fit.

BUT my latest issue is I have a problem with my clutch slave I think? the piston is to short on mine to engage the clutch?

I use an M20 slave on the M30 box.
The only guy I know who used an M10 box on his M30 was "Robor" but not sure what slave he used without reading his build thread.

I had a look on real oem and it lists the same part number for the clutch slave for the whole E30 range including the M3.

But the E34 clutch slave has a different part number.

They have some values listed there, I'm wondering if those are the lengths of the pistons perhaps, anyone know?