megasquirt, Q's

[steve_k]

Well i've been looking at going for an MS install (full package, MS3X+ COP, MAF, the lot) & from what I can find out is I can buy it all built up & ready to plug in, but how hard is it to plug in & get working?

also can you get a base map to run on till it's all mapped properly?

& where would be the best place to buy it from in the Uk?

any help & advise would be v.helpfull.
& any opinions (good or bad) are welcome.

[steve_k]

Probably the main answer i'm after is.....

how hard/easy is it to fit??

plug & play? Or rip out old loom & install new one/get auto electrian to fit it??

[e30topless]

why do you need MS ?

[steve_k]

why do you need MS ?

give myself something to do over winter,

& just the fact that I can then learn how all the leccy & spark bits work as I allready know how the mechanical parts work so thought it might be about time to learn the rest.

[e30topless]

never known anyone gain anything with MS other than wallet space !!

is your donk a standard B25?

[steve_k]

never known anyone gain anything with MS other than wallet space !!

is your donk a standard B25?

nope,

griffin motorsport stage 3 head, 274* cam.

BBTB

Cold fed induction system

+1mm overbore,

magnex 6 branch

X-pipe after the down pipes

exhaust straight through to back box

lightweight flywheel

baffled sump.

so, far from stock lol.

[e30topless]

nice head

it aint stroked or snailed so i would stick with the standard ECU/loom set up, i bet it goes quite well as it is ?

[steve_k]

Very nice head going to get a spare head i've got done exactly the same just incase it goes pop lol.

oh yes she shifts once the revs are up ;) got a chip off speedtouch running the show (been in there a while so no prob's)

based on what you just said I might go to the dyno/RR down the road in clowne & see what he charges & get it remapped fully & see whats she's like after.

[Rav335uk]

I'd agree with Topless, i've seen and driven a car with MS setup, and it was difficult to start, wouldn't idle correctly, even after months of "Tuning".
In the end it was ditched and a standard ecu put back in.

[steve_k]

Thanks rav, so thats another point to put me off lol.

seem to be a few horror stories about.

[steve_k]

Well after adding it all up to get everything needed & then mapped & after seeing what folk on other forums have said about MS I think i'll leave it.

lets just say for the cost of buying it ready built with a base map & the maf & the coil packs then the cost of mapping I might aswell go buy a btb3 manifold, E46 steering rack & fitting kit from danthe instead.

[Gunni]

Why would you need a MAF with a Megasquirt setup?

[steve_k]

Why would you need a MAF with a Megasquirt setup?

well from what I understand (not a lot) I thought you could use one with MS?

[jmc330i]

I think Gunni means, why would you use a MAF when Megasquirt doesn't need it.

[steve_k]

I think Gunni means, why would you use a MAF when Megasquirt doesn't need it.

sorry I didnt realise that you could run MS without a AFM/MAF.

[Speedtouch]

See Flappysocks' website www.diyefi.co.uk

I had one of his on a Tech 2 Sport and it was OK, although only mapped on 'Autotune', so probably not optimised and as good as it could have been.

As above, MS doesn't need a MAF or AFM - you can run it purely on the throttle body, by adding a potentiometer to provide throttle position sensing.

Cold start issues are probably down to not having the idle control valve circuit set up properly (it needs a separate driver board to get it to run).

[steve_k]

See Flappysocks' website www.diyefi.co.uk

I had one of his on a Tech 2 Sport and it was OK, although only mapped on 'Autotune', so probably not optimised.

As above, MS doesn't need a MAF or AFM - you can run it purely on the throttle body!

Cold start issues are probably down to not having the idle control valve circuit set up properly (it needs a separate driver board to get it to run).

thanks for the link speedtouch, only problem now is I can't decide wether to go for it or not now

[Rav335uk]

I wouldn't.
There's plenty of other better stand alone variants out there.
I'm looking into running the M30 with supercharger on a VEMS system.
Any input on that Gunni??

[fowler]

just remember moronic can't run COP for a 6 pot.
yes i know it can be done on 318is
steve i would speak to MR Sheps evo and run your car on alpha N with a piggy back ecu doing all hard work no COP
( Cheaper option) bit pony in my opinion but thats my take on it

middle option
to use squirt running alpha N COP. JOB done ...... few hours work fitting then off to a tuner for mapping
I would say squirt is good if you get it set-up right if it aint set-up correctly its plop all infor can be found on tinterweb. www.diyefi.co.uk flappy socks did a complete guide to doing NA m20. FREE INFO >>>>>>>>>>>www.diyefi.co.uk
Have seen and driven plenty modded motors with squirt and its good for the price cold start is the PITA but once this is sorted all is good
have seen a less specced m20b25 make just over 200bhp on squirt.

more expensive option
buy a VEMS (from gunni) FREE PLUG !!! and run it on that. slightly more costly option
VEMS can allow you to run Alpha N with COP with sequential injection ( like modern cars)
with all ECU options the intial outlay is expensive .

This then means you have new technology in a older car. with the possability to add more goodies if required
I have had turbo set-ups on squirt and vems.
squirt is good but has its limitations
VEMS awesome bit of kit so many options (too many toys too )

MY 2p Worth now discuss .........
PS. steve if you want a good forged steel crank to build a 2.7 with that griffin head and lairy cam plus squirt that will be roughly 225 + bhp

[steve_k]

Wow . Thanks for the info ben

at the end of the day i'm only thinking out loud about what I want to do to the car over the winter ;)

Also ben please bear in mind that the bottom end is 2554cc so it's not standard but combine that cc with a 2.7 crank & what sort of cc would I be looking at then?? Also what kind of power fiqure??

[fowler]

so thats 1 over bore
idealy steve you will need
320 engine complete
re bore/ hone block to STD b25 size 84.2 mm
skim block by the magic magic amount to gain optimum CR about 11to12.5 static
use 320 rods with 325 pistons with the skirts machined down ( to make them light) less receprecating (spelling error) weight
use my 324 td crank with new bearings etc
vernier pulley
272 0r 282 cam shaft
new rockers lifters valves etc
larger injectors
some kind of ECU
then you have a lunatic mobile revvy 2.7 with a shit load of torque
hope that helps
or just take a skim of STD block and raise the CR and play with vernier pulleys and cams and ECU same result
but CR cannot compensate for CC
i am full of useful stuff today
oh it will prob cost you best part of 4K all in roughly
or stick a M50 whatever init and follow the trend
or work out your CR and supercharge it ( STorm delevolments) another free plug

[fowler]

I wouldn't.
There's plenty of other better stand alone variants out there.
I'm looking into running the M30 with supercharger on a VEMS system.
Any input on that Gunni??

will run it standing on its head with its thumb up its are no real challenge there...
make suer you get ALS launch control and a solinoid to spray watercooling on intercool loads of poines to come out that old boat anchor RAV !!!

[fowler]

See Flappysocks' website www.diyefi.co.uk

I had one of his on a Tech 2 Sport and it was OK, although only mapped on 'Autotune', so probably not optimised.

As above, MS doesn't need a MAF or AFM - you can run it purely on the throttle body!

Cold start issues are probably down to not having the idle control valve circuit set up properly (it needs a separate driver board to get it to run).

thanks for the link speedtouch, only problem now is I can't decide wether to go for it or not now

They can run with out ICV no need for it i have run both my conversions with out them so U/S in my book

[steve_k]

Once again thanks for all the info ben

if I do go down the rebuild route then I might use that list of your's but with a M52B28 crank

[Speedtouch]

They can run with out ICV no need for it i have run both my conversions with out them so U/S in my book

I initially had mine without the ICV connected, but it was a b*tch to cold start, as you would have to keep revving it because as soon as you took your foot off the throttle, it would stall, which could make setting off and having to stop at junctions rather tricky - it wouldn't warm up until about a mile down the road.

So, I built the driver circuit and fitted it, which improved things.

[fowler]

too much internal lateral friction as the engine becomes "square" as the bore and stroke are very close never seen one make the claimed output but thats just me for ease i would work out what the CR is on your current engine.
Take spare head machine down for extra CR.... we are olny talkin 0.001 mm to get good bang for you buck on a STD 2.5.
but hey i am now e30 less so i have no toys to play with....

[fowler]

They can run with out ICV no need for it i have run both my conversions with out them so U/S in my book

I initially had mine without the ICV connected, but it was a b*tch to cold start, as you would have to keep revving it because as soon as you took your foot off the throttle, it would stall, which could make setting off and having to stop at junctions rather tricky - it wouldn't warm up until about a mile down the road.

So, I built the driver circuit and fitted it, which improved things.

never had that problem on the m40 or the m20 setup but i did spend time setting up cold start for donkeys, you can always set the ecu to do it for you and rev at 1200-1300rpm for a few secs the die down like modern cars when the first start

[steve_k]

too much internal lateral friction as the engine becomes "square" as the bore and stroke are very close never seen one make the claimed output but thats just me for ease i would work out what the CR is on your current engine.
Take spare head machine down for extra CR.... we are olny talkin 0.001 mm to get good bang for you buck on a STD 2.5.
but hey i am now e30 less so i have no toys to play with....

so do tell, how would I go about working out the CR for my current engine??

[Rav335uk]

I wouldn't.
There's plenty of other better stand alone variants out there.
I'm looking into running the M30 with supercharger on a VEMS system.
Any input on that Gunni??

will run it standing on its head with its thumb up its are no real challenge there...
make suer you get ALS launch control and a solinoid to spray watercooling on intercool loads of poines to come out that old boat anchor RAV !!!

Ok, whats ALS launch control then?

[reggid]

the problem with standalone is idle, cold start, post start and warm up type stuff that the factory spends big bucks on but many do not realise its importance until it is not done right. You'd want a ICV if you have an engine with any decent performance cam or light flywheel and it gets below 10*C or a large variation winter to summer and you drive on the street often. There are good gains to be had from getting rid of motronic on a performance M20, i would run MAP or blended don't do just Alpha N it is too primitive for a street car IMO but still works fairly well.

[b12rlw]

I've got a b25 turbo running squirt and apart from me being a little silly chasing a gsxr without a proper map, I've not had any problems. I don't use an idle valve, I've got that output for use with water spray and the car idles sweet. The ecu is Easy wired with a new loom. I've added an extra fusebox/relay board for stuff like fuel/ fan relays etc, it runs MAP and I'm really pleased with how it went together. I did have problems with both injector driver circuits going pop but that was soon repaired.

[b12rlw]

I've got a b25 turbo running squirt and apart from me being a little silly chasing a gsxr without a proper map, I've not had any problems. I don't use an idle valve, I've got that output for use with water spray and the car idles sweet. The ecu is Easy wired with a new loom. I've added an extra fusebox/relay board for stuff like fuel/ fan relays etc, it runs MAP and I'm really pleased with how it went together. I did have problems with both injector driver circuits going pop but that was soon repaired.

[Gunni]

I wouldn't.
There's plenty of other better stand alone variants out there.
I'm looking into running the M30 with supercharger on a VEMS system.
Any input on that Gunni??

It would be ultra simple and easy.
one coil, 6 coils, wasted spark coils or VAG coils, whatever it can do it.

[fowler]

just a small calculation for you steve:
CR = SV+CCV+HGV+DHV+EDV
CCV+HGV+DHV+EDV

Where CR = compression ratio
CCV = combustion chamber volume
HGV = head gasket volume
DHV = deck height volume
EDV = effective dome volume
SV = swept volume

[steve_k]

just a small calculation for you steve:
CR = SV+CCV+HGV+DHV+EDV
CCV+HGV+DHV+EDV

Where CR = compression ratio
CCV = combustion chamber volume
HGV = head gasket volume
DHV = deck height volume
EDV = effective dome volume
SV = swept volume

& there goes concord right over the top of my head

I can do most things on these lumps but working out the CR??

Well erm.......................................