NE Rolling Road Day

[DaveD]

It all depends on Vsports correction figures..my whp (which is the only true figure)was 135, up from 126 when i had it done before...............does any one have the makers bhp at the wheels for a standard car?

[buster]

hi all
that was a good day. some intresting results
my e36 m3 evo knocked out 297.1 bhp and 282 ftlb torque
i would of like some more bhp but iam happy with the torque
does anyone know what the avis blue 3.0l m3 achieved. i would have liked to stayed till the end and watch but i had to go

best noise goes to the tuned e36 325. you could feel the vibrations through the concrete floor!
graph here
http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_p ... 38513&PN=1

vids on youtube

Mine was 12 hp less than yours ,mine was down on torque also at 264 ftlb.

If you mean my mates 3ltr it made 274 hp

[trackpig]

[quote="

If you mean my mates 3ltr it made 274 hp

274bhp?
so slightly down on stock 286. so are we saying vsports dyno gives low readings. or that its very accurate and our cars are not giving full power?

even though i dont like the sound of it, i think its the later

[buster]

not sure mate.I think there were 4 cars that were standard and made there quoted power.So probably our cars.

[Kos]

It all depends on Vsports correction figures..my whp (which is the only true figure)was 135, up from 126 when i had it done before...............does any one have the makers bhp at the wheels for a standard car?

is 126 @ the wheels the chipped UK figure dave ??

[DaveD]

It all depends on Vsports correction figures..my whp (which is the only true figure)was 135, up from 126 when i had it done before...............does any one have the makers bhp at the wheels for a standard car?

is 126 @ the wheels the chipped UK figure dave ??

Yes it is

[bmechanic]

How doo!!, knew you lot would have some good pic and vids of yesterday I've but a vid of my M3 and Busters 325 on youtube that I toke on my phone, so bit shit




my figures were 174bhp thats down 12bhp on standard, BUT! torque was about 255lb.ft up from 236lb.ft stock, I forgot my sheet at Busters last night so not sure of exact number

[beardymat]

the white touring i brought to jason @ chipped uk which adams now owns made exactly the same wheel horse power figure on both dynos but the flywheel figure was less at vsport. my car was down from standard by 15 bhp but spot on torque whilst billgates sport made 3bhp less than standard.

as said before, wheel horse power is where its at

[adamS]

My touring made 133.8 at the wheels. 162 fly and 196 talks.

I notice on my air-fuel graph its dropping to 12:1 at very high revs. Is that normal?

[ric325i]

hello people sorry i didnt stay long but i had to drive to manchester and back which was not pleasent.
thankfully it was not in my 335i.

i drove my 335 to manchester and im having a few water temp issue but its running really good and fast!

wish i got on the rollers as i think im not kicking out the full torque as the power comes in high in the revs.

bu ti was not there long.

i also think i would have took the best noise of the day but i need to shush the car slightly i think.

[Kos]

It all depends on Vsports correction figures..my whp (which is the only true figure)was 135, up from 126 when i had it done before...............does any one have the makers bhp at the wheels for a standard car?

is 126 @ the wheels the chipped UK figure dave ??

Yes it is

nice one, proves gumballs dyno is on par with others !!

[buster]

Hi guys,
Just checked my plugs.Do you think my missfire had something to do with 2 of the spark plugs being loose ?

[DaveD]

is 126 @ the wheels the chipped UK figure dave ??

Yes it is

nice one, proves gumballs dyno is on par with others !!

miller maf=+9bhp@wheels

quote="buster"]Hi guys,
Just checked my plugs.Do you think my misfire had something to do with 2 of the spark plugs being loose ?[/quote]
errrr possibly!

[Vsport]

[quote="

If you mean my mates 3ltr it made 274 hp

274bhp?
so slightly down on stock 286. so are we saying vsports dyno gives low readings. or that its very accurate and our cars are not giving full power?

even though i dont like the sound of it, i think its the later

Our dyno has proven to be almost 100% accurate with standard cars, look at the lad that brought in the frshly rebuilt engine, it made EXACTLY the book figures!

bear in mind that most cars are down on standard power, its natural with age and milage that the engine wiull wear and produce less power.

[DaveD]

I feel that it's the computers interpretation of the data that can be misleading..the only true reading it (the rollers) produces is that at the wheels the rest is a computation...the Americans usually only quote whp and I can see why

[bmechanic]

[quote="

If you mean my mates 3ltr it made 274 hp

274bhp?
so slightly down on stock 286. so are we saying vsports dyno gives low readings. or that its very accurate and our cars are not giving full power?

even though i dont like the sound of it, i think its the later

Our dyno has proven to be almost 100% accurate with standard cars, look at the lad that brought in the frshly rebuilt engine, it made EXACTLY the book figures!

bear in mind that most cars are down on standard power, its natural with age and milage that the engine wiull wear and produce less power.

I think it looking accurate I most say, I don't think there anything wrong with my car been down 12 bhp, its due its next service soon and I'm going to put a K&N panel filter in it too and then I'll go back up to Vsport, its likely it could get it back. S50 I've been told do repond well to been serviced, its possible that the red 4door 3.0L just needs the Vanos filter and bolts changing and the right oil, it had no service history and the guy didn't know that there was a Vanos filter and if this is getting blocked the Vanos is not likely to work as it should as it needs about 85 bar of oil pressure to work, that's my theory anyway.

found a good link here its for the 3.2 evo but the intake side the same as the 3.0L http://mukerji.co.uk/vanos/

[buster]

i'm sorting out this missfire and i want to go back to see what its putting out.
Not checked yet,but im hoping the missfire ha something to do with 2 loose plugs.

[ShepsEvo3]

It all depends on Vsports correction figures..my whp (which is the only true figure)was 135, up from 126 when i had it done before...............does any one have the makers bhp at the wheels for a standard car?

Correction factors can be manipulated on some machines to give figures you want. The DynoDynamics machine I had on loan a while back had to have these figures entered into the computer. Vsports figures doesn't suggest to me that they were manipulated, as Vsport says, standard cars with wear and tear on the engines can make less power than standard, but also I have seen standard cars in poor condition with a humungous amount of miles make more than standard.

Dave as you said about the wheel figures.... "which is the only true figure", I am not arguing here, but I feel I should put across another view. As Vsports suggested about wear and tear, that does not apply only to the engine unfortunately. The transmission, diff, wheel bearings, brakes all suffer from this too. So if your engine is down on power at the wheels by say 20bhp, you could blame the engine when the real problem could be binding brake or rough/tight wheel bearing. The way the car is strpped down too on higher powered cars can also cause lower than expected wheel power figures. I wasn't there, but I suspect there were only chocks on the front wheels and a strap on the rear of the car for safety only and not pulled down? If they were pulled down tight, the power figuers would have been less.

Another thing to consider, a car with say 150 bhp at the wheels on a Dyno Dynamics machine probably wont make the same power another dyno. Roller diameter and weight all pay a part in it.

The main thing is that any adjustments or modifications should be compared on the same dyno, otherwise things can get very confusing!

[ric325i]

buster i would put money on the spark plugs being the problem!

easy fix

oh and have you thought of putting the X pipes in the exhaust? i heard you say it and i think it will raise the back pressure, get more power

p.s i will be up for the drag strip soon - in a few weeks when the girlfriend has let go off my balls. whens the next one?

[billgatese30]

here we go then

power graphs

Flywheel power and torque



Rear wheel power

[ric325i]

1st one to put the graph up look liek a really nice power curve

good to see almost 170bhp from the tech2

[billgatese30]

yep, plastic bumper rightness

[ric325i]

plastic bumber goodness.

i am really gutted i could not hand around to test mine.

i may have to find a rolling road near manchester to get a reading now before i start playing with the power of mine

[reggid]

here we go then

power graphs

Flywheel power and torque



Rear wheel power

those rwhp are spot on the money i have seen 3 plastic bumper m20b25 post

105rwkw (141rwhp)
102rwkw (137rwhp)
103rwkw (138rwhp)

on a dyno dynamics shootout mode on a different continent.

What were the rwhp and bhp values of some of the other cars?

EDIT:just noticed shootout 4 was used when shootout 6 is the proper correction to be used for all NA 6 cylinder cars

[BD76]

My old 2.0 nova was 160 brake and me m8s got a 3.0 turbo in his and thats 320
these cars cannot b driven in the wet

[ShepsEvo3]

And 4th gear used? Our DynoDynamics rep recommends pwer runs to be done in 3rd...which would give you a slightly higher figure too

[buster]

they said it doesn't matter which gear they run.

[ShepsEvo3]

Oh dear! It definately matters

[buster]

EDIT:just noticed shootout 4 was used when shootout 6 is the proper correction to be used for all NA 6 cylinder cars

shit,is that true ?

[bmechanic]

I've put "Dyno Dynamics" in google image search and found a lot pics of Dyno Dynamics results and I'm not sure about witch gear they should be in but it seem to be randomly 3rd or 4th, but reggid I think has a point about witch Shoot they use there a Monaro witch looks supercharged on shoot 8f, a swift on shoot 4, a impreza shoot 44, RX7 shoot 3R and super turbo shoot 6f here the link make your own conclusion http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=Dyn ... art=0&sa=N

[reggid]

the gear will affect the rwhp somewhat in that a lower gear (3rd vs 4th) will make a bit more rwhp because the wheels are rotating slower meaning less power is required to rotate wheels at the slower speed.......what effect this has on the calculated bhp i don't know as we don't use that here (just rwhp is used) so i don't know how it works although you'd hope that the calculation of drivetrain losses can account for this.

shootout 4 is for 4 cyl, shootout 6 is 6cyl and shootout 8 is 8cyl and a f means force induction eg 8f (i.e. supercharged 8 cylinder monaro). This locks in the ramp rate of the machine and the assumed drivetrain inertia which does affect rwhp calcs.

[trackpig]

why is it that my engine redlines at 7400rpm but my graph from vsport only shows up to 7000rpm??

how does vsport measure rpm on the dyno?? why is there confusion about what gear the cars should be tested in, the manufacturer of the dyno should recommend the gear and the tester should use that gear??

[ShepsEvo3]

The DD machine has several ways of measuring RPM and I found that feature to be one of the best features of the dyno.

The sales guy Mike Guerney told me that DD recomend doing power runs in 3rd gear. What this recomendation is for I don't know, but probably part and parcel of the correction process for flywheel figures?

TRACKPIG.... your car was possibly loosing power before 7000RPM and I suspect the operator probably thought it pointless going to the limiter?

[billgatese30]

TRACKPIG.... your car was possibly loosing power before 7000RPM and I suspect the operator probably thought it pointless going to the limiter?

i talked about this with the operator (as mine doesn't have a limiter) so he only took it to 6500 which is where i asked him to take it

but he was saying that personally they would only take it just a little bit past where it stared to tail off, however they say customers feel short changed if they don't take it to the red line

[ShepsEvo3]

I normally take them to the limiter, or if it looks too lean, I stop or if there is no limiter I go about another 600 rpm after the power drops off.

But i like to see what AFR's are close to the limiter, as this is where good improvements can be made there!