Project-M45 super charger (developments)

[appletree]

Right as am sure some of you will know i've been thinking of either doing an turbo conversion (project-m42 turbo) or building a 2.1ltr m42 like tim_s. well ive choose neither. Ive now gone out and got a eaton m45 super charger.

Ive the ball rolling and got an M42 from JC-BM on hear. The idea with this engine is to use it to help mock up the set-up then if it all works ok, probably re-build it, paint it and then drop that in with the convertion bolted on.

hear it is


Its covered 90k and was running fin until it the car ws broke for spares

so far i,ve only stripped the engine partly to have a look at it as i don't want to strip it fully until I know the conversion works.







since those pictures I,ve got the s/c and got a load of bits ready to start the conversion.

My idea is to build up the conversion on my running IS (in storage for the winter) get it mapped on that engine, run it for a bit and then swop over to the above engine and get it mapped on the rollers by ant once ive got a few miles under my belt.

Enjoy the pics sofar!!


hears my supercharger. Eaton m45, I know a lot of people have said its to small to be any good but I think its gonna give a nice helping hand to the IS.



this is a pair of useful looking hoses I picked up from the scrap yard.



These are a few bits I picked up from the auto jumble the other week end. Turbo boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, and exhaust heat rap.



I've got a fair bit of stainless tubing to conect the hole set-up together from 3â€a- Âaâ€a

[Kedge]

Good look mate, certainly looks an interesting project!

Think i might be going down the NA tuned root soon!

[e30_Turbo]

You need to speak to Lennie, he was moving house and getting his interweb connection sorted last time I spoke to him. I'll drop him a tex later and see if he can't give you some pointers.

( he's running a eaton sc from a Merc on his 2.7)

HTH, Mark.

[appletree]

Ive also got a

Ford Zetec coil pack and wiring to allow me to be able to use M/S to fire each coil indepently rater than using the montronic which can only fire pairs asfar is i understand.

just orderd a e36 aircon pully to run the S/C 6 lane flat belt.

also ordered the inlet for the S/C off bmw, my idea is to use as many dealer parts as i can ao that i "should" be able to get prts for it in the future.

ive got a baileys resuculating dumpvalve coming to.

more pics when bits start to arrive

[appletree]

You need to speak to Lennie, he was moving house and getting his interweb connection sorted last time I spoke to him. I'll drop him a tex later and see if he can't give you some pointers.

( he's running a eaton sc from a Merc on his 2.7)

HTH, Mark.

Nice one mate! that would be good, the eaton m45 is used on the merc 2.3 but with a different inlet to the onefrom the bmw mini cooper s ( like mine)

[e30_Turbo]

Nice one mate! that would be good, the eaton m45 is used on the merc 2.3 but with a different inlet to the onefrom the bmw mini cooper s ( like mine)

I think Lennies is a M62 or something, he was under the impression it was a M90 but not so.

Here's his website: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/suemanley1/

And you be wise to read:

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... pic&t=9947

HTH, Mark.

[lentec]

Spot on mark mine is the M62 from the 2.3

As i remember the M45 is good for anything up to 2lt so too small for 6pots all good for 4s tho

I hope you dont intend to run those rubber pipes on the boost side? as the sure can make you jump when they burst.

Cant see from your pics has your charger got a no-load bypass built in?

[Turbo-Brown]

Ford Zetec coil pack and wiring to allow me to be able to use M/S to fire each coil indepently rater than using the montronic which can only fire pairs asfar is i understand.

You sure the Zetec coil pack is capable of individual fire?

I'm about 99.9% sure that it's just a paired affair with 1&4 and 2&3 being triggered together wasted spark stylee.

If you do want to go sequential, you need a cam position sensor too which I'm guessing the M42 doesn't have?

Anyway, cool project!

What sort of power you aiming for?

[Dan318-is]

M42 has cam position sensor and individual coils from the factory.

[appletree]

Ant is going to be doing the mapping and the building of the megasquiert loom and tld me to find a ford zetec coil pack for the above reason. so i got one. £5 off ebay so its not the end of the day if its not needed.

The above black hoses were got to try and make the inlet from the s/c curve back up towards the front of the car and towards the air filter. there reason there good is that the out let on the charger is a oval shape and co are the ends of them.

lentec- which side of your s/c have you put the throttle body? ive been looking around on the web and there set ups with the TB on either side of the charger. if i can run it after the charger it would be good as then i wouldn't have to mess about with throttle cable lengths and mounts and trying to get from oval to round with addapter plates.

[keggy]

wot gains r expected from this supercharger??

[pacerpete]

A cracked head and a blown profile gasket !

[lentec]

A cracked head and a blown profile gasket !

lol
Only if not done properly!!

You can run the T/B either side of the charger but if its on the hot side you MUST have a good bypass/BOV system to stop things blowing apart when you change gear.

[appletree]

just had a look at your wed page lennie, thats somevery nice work you've done. i'am gonna be using a large reseculating dump valve.

as far as i can see the m45 doesnt have a bay pass so thats why am using the dump valve, if the dump valve works by using the vacum from the inlet manifold to lift the dump valve valve and release the chagered air that would meen that (although it should'nt happen) if the s/c cant supply enough air for the engines needs it will lift the dump valve and draw air through the dump valve system.

having just wrote that, if at idal the inlet was in vacum but the Tb was restricting the flow then i would end up with the dump valve costantly releaving pressure and a constant sssssshhhhh if it was atmosferic D/V.

[lentec]

having just wrote that, if at idal the inlet was in vacum but the Tb was restricting the flow then i would end up with the dump valve costantly releaving pressure and a constant sssssshhhhh if it was atmosferic D/V.

Unless you have a 2 way solanoid inline so the atmos BOV only opens when the throttle is fully closed! it still gives a chuff between gears but dosent hiss when you hiss when you hit the go pedal
and you would still need a recirc for part throttle.

[appletree]

what do you mean by the inline solanoid? i have a bailey recirc DV off an VAG 20v T.

can i run the recirc D/V and then have the suction line in to the inlet manifold to lift the valve when the engines in vacum and the throttle shut and the infeed to the D/V after the S/C and the out let before the S/C??

[lentec]

A picture says a thousand words

[appletree]

that helps but now i've got another question! what do you mean wen you say "BOV only open hen s/c is turnd off" ? is'nt it bening driven all the time? or have you got it clutched?

when does your " recirc bypass" open? and for what reason??

thanks for the help

[lentec]

Yes i have a clutch on the pulley. very handy device.

The recirc opens whenever there is vacuume in the manifold so the S/C isnt working against itself at part/closed throttle.

[e30_Turbo]

Lennies S/C is very cool. one minute it's not there then BANG it is!

Can't do that with my turbo, although now I don't have any boost till 3k anyway!

[jkarran]

I've been considering an M45 conversion too.

What did you use for the recirculating valve? It loos like a modified remote thermostat and wastegate actuator. Will a recirculating dumpvalve (Standard VAG/Bosch or Bailey) not work as a recirculating valve for an M45?

What's the point of the atmospheric dump valve, does the re-circulating valve not flow enough or is it just for the sound?

Cheers,
James

[appletree]

I think if i,ve understud it right the the idea with lentecs setup is that at part throttle (on a long motorway cruise) the s/c will be by past and the setup will be basicaly N/A so you should get alot better MPG. but when he boots it the clutch on the s/c will engage and you hit warp speed!

i think it is probably better to have a recirc dump valve as then if for any reason the s/c cant keep up with the engine the dump valve will open and rather than chargerd air escaping the vacum from the engine will suck air through the dump valve "by pass" by passing the s/c. But if you spec the charger right and get the corret belt ratios then this should not be a problem.

[lentec]

Thanks mark you wait till the next phase

James i used a modified recirc valve from a volvo 240 it is enough on its own but i had the atmos one kicking about and wanted to put it to some use.

Its not just for the sound tho it seemed a good idea to releive any presure when the S/C is turned off quickly ie: between gears and prevent it from stalling.

[appletree]

wonder if theres a clutch set up for the m45

[jkarran]

Volvo 240 re-circulating valve? Was there a turbo 240 or is it the thermostat housing from a 240? I'm confused (easily done ) Also is it a butterfly throttle type valve or a lifting disk type arrangement?

Sorry for all the dumb questions.

I think I'll just use a recirculating dump valve for the bypass though an atmospheric dump valve on the plenum, post-intercooler might be a good safe guard against bent butterflies/throttle shafts.

[nwmlarge]

have you checked out the http://www.downingatlanta.com/da_superc ... fo_new.htm

[jkarran]

wonder if theres a clutch set up for the m45

I'd have thought one off another Eaton would be easy enough to fit. MR2 4-AGZE has a magnetic clutch I think as do most modern SC production cars (why doesn't the cooperS?).

jk

[appletree]

Ya, seen the downing atlanta kit quite dear an dose n't run a intercooler. An when a american mag (grass roots iirc) fitted it 2 a e30 IS they found a big inprovement tuck it up 2 189 bhp iirc but the fueling was poor as they was using the standard management. So hopefully with M/S and inter cooler i will be sumware close.

[appletree]

From what i have read, head scratching and my intuition as an instrumentation engineer, often working with control systems. It would seem best to use a throttle body before the charger thus reduceing the inherant likely hood of the charger staling/producing excessive discharge pressures in the inlet manifold, a reciculating dump valve (feeding back directly to the sc inlet) a hot wire type mass air flow meter, and a lmbda sensor in the exhaust, thus providing a self compensating closed loop system ie self checking feeedback. Question will megasquirt suport all thes inputs, does anybody support my views or fundamentally disagree, or am i overcomplicating things? Cheers Matts dad

[lentec]

The T/B before S/C is the better option if the charger is permanently engaged IMO
The only thing is that you will want as little pipework as poss between the S/C and the head (ie: the link nwmlarge posted above) as i dont know how a large volume between T/B and intake will affect running/driveability?

With MS you dont have to run a MAF at all but ant is the man to talk to on that tho

[appletree]

I imagine that in the middle band of charger rpm ie after it has delt with leakage at low rpm and before it gets its knickers in a twist at high rpm the pressure after the charger should be fairly constant, and if geared correctly the recirc should be just passing a bit so things should not be too bad. The stored mass of air might even help things out a bit, taken to the limits minimal volume might give instant response maybe even a bit harsh, very large volume things could be a bit damped. The responses of super chargers and turbo's obviously differ and from what i've read sc respond better at low engine RPM presumable as being positve displace ment the boost is instantly available. Time will tell Mats Dad

[jkarran]

A reasonably large plenum/runner volume will act to damp the pulsating pressure from the supercharger (the Eaton is supposed to be pretty good already due to its twisted rotors and port design). This would be especially important if you plan not to run an intercooler. Personally I'm planning to run a small intercooler (CooperS core minus the end tanks weded directly to the plenum but mine's going in a kitcar and on a small engine) and a relatively large plenum. I will probably run a bypass valve from the exhaust port of the SC straight back to its inlet.

jk

[appletree]

Jkarren would you be intrested in a genuine bmw inlet pipe? ive just bought one then last night changed the hole approch to the install and so dont need it it cost me £36.96 so if you or any one else is intrested give me a shout!

lentec how have you done the setup for the brake servo vacum pipe? have you left it in the normal place or haver you moved it? were 2?

[lentec]

lentec how have you done the setup for the brake servo vacum pipe? have you left it in the normal place or haver you moved it? were 2?

I used a single checkvalve from a 316

I had two pipes i used the one on the engine side of the throttle

[appletree]

ok i had abit of a change of plan with regards the position of the S/C, rather than move the alternator to the oposit side and mount it in place of the alternator i have desided to mount it on the inlet manifold much like downing altanta have done with there setup.

so, me and my dad started to make the manifold last night, hear are the pics so far.


this is the piece of metal i am going to start and make the manifold from, the idea is that this will bolt directly on to the lower inlet manifold with the ingecters in.

this is 100x50 box section 3mm wall.

first we cut it to size +abit

once we maked it out all we had to do was to drill out all the holes for the studs.



this is the next step once the port holes have been machined in to the manifold.

what i am going to do is split the length of one side and then machine a groove 2mm deep the opposit side to the split to allow the box to be "open" up with out bending the sides that will need to stay flat to make a good seal to the manifold, then weld a 3" section of flat bar into the split side to make a shape like this.



picture is on its side, the widest part will be at the top

this was firstly to make the S/C level to the bonnet ( coponsate for the engins 40 degree slant) and also to give alarger planum volume