Forget 24v, m20 powahhhhh is where its at!!!!!

[maggspower]

Sorry I don't get chance to get on here too much these days, but I thought this was worthy of a post. Its sort of a backwards thread as most of the work is done, but there you go............. That me the backwards man

[youtube][/youtube]

Remember the m20?

Its that engine that used to go in the e30...........The nice factory one was the m20b25, plenty of torque, epic noise on song, and real easy to work on. The approved tuners got hold of them and turned them into 2.7L, then the masses went further and got 2.8L, 2.9 and so on.

Then the people wanted 24 valves, this engine was the future and it was easily fitted into the e30, I have done some myself, it made the m20 look like it was from the victorian era. But this left the poor old m20 in the hands of the turboists (nothing wrong with that), and the scrap pile. No one liked them any more

Times have changed........................

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Its a 3.1 litre now, at one point it produced 291bhp on the rollers, but has now had the ignition timing knocked back a little to a safer zone, and has 280bhp@6850. Power was still climbing at this point..........Some more playing would no doubt yeild more power, but this will do for now

I'm not one for power figures really, I'm more interested in how things drive, and this does so very nicely indeed, sounds ok too

[Cypriotgeeza]

That moment when the butterflies closed

has it been cammed? or is the internals standard other than the ITB's?

Major respect for sticking with the M20!

Looking forward to more updates!

[maggspower]

That moment when the butterflies closed

has it been cammed? or is the internals standard other than the ITB's?

Major respect for sticking with the M20!

Looking forward to more updates!

The engine block and head are m20, not much else is, and they have been seriously "messed" with

[suchy]

Oh I've just wet my pants upon viewing that. Just off for another tissue and I'll watch again... brb...

[pianist]

Very nice indeed

[bab-91]

Bloody hell!

[jmc330i]

Nice work Byron

[Rav335uk]

[jimbom30cab]

Big fan of your work Byron but this is something else !!

Nice one

Let me know when the local car show is this year mate

[maggspower]

Cheers James, Rav and Jim

A good mate of mine Dan (_Dan_ on here), also has been involved with this, and deserves credit. I hope that we can work together in the future on similar projects.

Theres a youtube video of the build coming...... but it will take a little while to do, everyone involved is busy/has proper jobs But we will be doing the same for all jobs now, got some nice ones coming up

But in the mean time I'll update this as a a backwards build thread

[matt86]

That is very nice Byron! Good job. I wont ask how much it cost. Lol

[steve_k]

well done byron & _dan_, good to see the m20 getting some love once in a while.

been thinking about ITB's & emerald on either my h27 or 2.6 h26 lumps, still collecting the parts for the ITB's though

keep it up & lets get the m20 back where it belongs

[_Dan_]

Cheers James, Rav and Jim

A good mate of mine Dan (_Dan_ on here), also has been involved with this, and deserves credit. I hope that we can work together in the future on similar projects.

, bring on more emerald builds, thoroughly enjoyed this project.

well done byron & _dan_, good to see the m20 getting some love once in a while.

been thinking about ITB's & emerald on either my h27 or 2.6 h26 lumps, still collecting the parts for the ITB's though

keep it up & lets get the m20 back where it belongs

Cheers steve, good luck with your build emerald is the way forward.

[maggspower]

As most of you know the Hartge h27 belongs to Iain. After several meetings working out a spec for this build, I quickly realised that this was not going to be your average m20 freshen up, it was the kind of thing to get the juices really flowing.

So between us we began to get the parts together......

Some donor engines




M54 and a good m20b25, and that is about it for the standard stuff. Both were stripped down to their component parts.

Its easier to bead blast engine blocks outside rather than in the blast cabinet.



Ready for paint core plugs removed.

[Jookeone]

Amazing work with this engine!

Just wondering what's emerald?

Cheers!

[Bristol_Jer]

Amazing work with this engine!

Just wondering what's emerald?

Cheers!

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/

[reggid]

what cylinder head work and cam?

the m20 has been given a new life by the introduction of the RHD ITBs as power is easily pushing past the el cheapo 24V swaps.

just the other week a 2.8L build (the eta rod, b25 piston budget bottom end) with 272 cam made 230 lb-ft and 250bhp with 195lb-ft at 2500rpm.

[Jookeone]

Thanks Bristol_Jer I had never heard of it

[Kedge]

what cylinder head work and cam?

the m20 has been given a new life by the introduction of the RHD ITBs as power is easily pushing past the el cheapo 24V swaps.

just the other week a 2.8L build (the eta rod, b25 piston budget bottom end) with 272 cam made 230 lb-ft and 250bhp with 195lb-ft at 2500rpm.

This sounds mighty interesting, could work well with my 2.8.

[pikanibbles]

Nice to see a hot n/a M20. I do prefer the sound of the 12v over the 24v.

[DanThe]

Sounds fruity

[maggspower]

So after considerable thought, we began to narrow down our options of hardware, all of the internals are uprated or customised in some way or another. Pistons were the next big choice.

This is what we went for


After the piston choice was made, the head was next. I had a few in stock to go at.



I decided on a low milage, virgin head (never skimmed), that was in great shape, no detonation marks and all the waterways still the same shape as they left the factory. They do suffer with corrosion on the exhaust side if the coolant has too little antifreeze in it. I had both genuine and AMC aftermarket heads to choose from, but an OEM one seemed like the right choice here for this build.



The bottom one is our head after pressure testing. The top one a genuine Hartge h27, that was used as "inspiration" for the porting work. Although in the end the work carried out to the head far exceeded what was done on the Hartge. Sadly this one is scrap with the usual 885 cam journal crack other wise it would have been used.



Then the real work began.........

[bab-91]

Byron, more! Stop drip feeding us!

[maggspower]

Byron, more! Stop drip feeding us!

Don't get angry, this is just the foreplay

[Kedge]

Byron, more! Stop drip feeding us!

Don't get angry, this is just the foreplay

You some kind of woman? We're not interested in foreplay!

[maggspower]

Byron, more! Stop drip feeding us!

Don't get angry, this is just the foreplay

You some kind of woman? We're not interested in foreplay!

Ok......Going in dry it is then

[Rav335uk]

Byron, more! Stop drip feeding us!

Don't get angry, this is just the foreplay

You some kind of woman? We're not interested in foreplay!

Hahahahahaha

[bab-91]

Don't get angry, this is just the foreplay

You some kind of woman? We're not interested in foreplay!

Ok......Going in dry it is then

Why does everything on Zone have to revert to sodomy

I'm dying to ask the cheeky cherub/vulgar question about cost, for an engine build like this, not the above.

[maggspower]

Why does everything on Zone have to revert to sodomy

I'm dying to ask the cheeky cherub/vulgar question about cost, for an engine build like this, not the above.

Apologies, thats the zone for you, back on topic

You know what they say, if you have to ask................

Anyway I began work on the cylinder head, this area is where most of the power can be gained.

Started with the chambers, getting them roughly the desired shape.



With them all roughed out, they were measured, and then balanced for size.





With them all within a margin for size, the chambers were all finish polished.



Before the finished polish, the ports were all roughed out to the correct shape and size. These were done emulating the Hartge h27 head, and a template one that I have had flow benched a few times. I must say here that a flow bench is a tool and not gospel when it comes to head modding.



I always leave skimming the head to last, that way the surface does not get damaged and I can decide how much I want to take off.

[SteSE]

Top work

[reggid]

How does the Hartge flow compare to stock?

if its like the Alpina the inlet port doesnt flow much more than stock on the flow bench at 10”a (its feels a lot better shape over the short side and smoother) but the exhaust port does flow a lot better.

Glad to see you didn’t convert to the hemi chamber like Alpina as I think this would have been a step in the wrong direction.

Did you retain stock valve size?

[maggspower]

How does the Hartge flow compare to stock? if its like the Alpina the inlet port doesnt flow much more than stock (its just smoother) but the exhaust port does.

Did you retain stock valve size?

I don't know, never tested the Hartge one. Any 885 casting head flows well on the inlet side, it doesn't need much doing there, although improvements were made. The exhaust is quite cramped around the bowl area especially with the style of stem/valve back used on the exhaust side, so is easy to make it flow better.

Largely irrelevant as bigger valve were used, chamber work improved things too.

The problem with these comparisons head to head as it were, is that they were all done just by blokes, I heard the guy that did the Hartge UK heads was just a dude in a shed, and that is no disrespect to dudes in sheds but i have seen a few Hartge heads and they have been different. So I don't think Hartge was handing out templates for the porting.

Never seen an Alpina cylinder head in the flesh, but they seemed to have a more consistent approach with the hemi chamber design, still all done by hand though.

I like that human involvement though, it means some are better than others, depending on what sort of day "Terry" or "Gunther" was having

[bab-91]

You know what they say, if you have to ask................

FOOKING, MEOW!


I'm going to hover around and see if I can learn something. Keep it coming, enjoyable read.

[reggid]

How does the Hartge flow compare to stock? if its like the Alpina the inlet port doesnt flow much more than stock (its just smoother) but the exhaust port does.

Did you retain stock valve size?

I don't know, never tested the Hartge one. Any 885 casting head flows well on the inlet side, it doesn't need much doing there, although improvements were made. The exhaust is quite cramped around the bowl area especially with the style of stem/valve back used on the exhaust side, so is easy to make it flow better.

Largely irrelevant as bigger valve were used, chamber work improved things too.

The problem with these comparisons head to head as it were, is that they were all done just by blokes, I heard the guy that did the Hartge UK heads was just a dude in a shed, and that is no disrespect to dudes in sheds but i have seen a few Hartge heads and they have been different. So I don't think Hartge was handing out templates for the porting.

Never seen an Alpina cylinder head in the flesh, but they seemed to have a more consistent approach with the hemi chamber design, still all done by hand though.

I like that human involvement though, it means some are better than others, depending on what sort of day "Terry" or "Gunther" was having

the stock head flows well looking from a stricktly flow point of view but the flow stalls when you start moving alot more air, its easily fixed but big strokers power do nose over quite early if not addressed particularity with OEM intake which exacerbates the issue.

Dudes in sheds are good but you need to find the right dude....
my current head was "machine" ported and finished by hand so its consistent but the issue is its just not just very good compared to whats possible. the new head was done by a dude in a shed and its miles better i'm slowly getting closer to actually being able to bolt it to a bottom end.....

[maggspower]

You know what they say, if you have to ask................

*********, MEOW!


I'm going to hover around and see if I can learn something. Keep it coming, enjoyable read.

You know you are more than welcome to shoot a PM over if you want anything done. There should have been a at the end of that.