New member with 323i

[Tineca]

Hi folks my name is Jed. Just picked up this E30 yesterday. It's a lovely car. It needs work but it's not too bad. The owners have had it for 28 years. It was an emotional sale for them. Plans are to keep it original and do a resto as time goes by. Needs new arches, perhaps a bonnet, drivers seat repair, drivers electric window motor and lock actuator, some minor welding to rear sill areas. Has been filled and looks OK but I want it to be decent.

[flybynite]

Nice to see another 323i on here, looks unmolested and I think you are doing the right thing keeping it that way.

Must have been a bit hard letting it go, I have had mine for over 30 years now and couldn't think of parting with it.

[Cloggy Saint]

Two stereos? That's just greedy.

[Tineca]

Ha the two stereos are fab, alpine radio cassette and a 90s CD player. One connected to the front speakers one to the back. I intend to keep it and enjoy it for several years. I know very little about them. I am a Sunday morning mechanic but going to have a go at the cambelt as it looks like a reasonable job. Thanks jed

[ah]

Love an original Old 323i and yours falls in that bracket.

[flybynite]

Love an original Old 323i.

Don't want to shatter the rose-tints but the E30 323i engine was not their best. It was often mated to a small-case diff and a weak E21 gearbox which the later engines tended to make short work of. The cam made the top end rattle and the pistons slapped.

They had 'character' but that is not what you bought one of those for. Went like stink in the day though

Old 323i.

? The OP has one of the newest (and not a bad thing in some respects)

[martauto]

Welcome to the zone mate, loads of info on here, sit back and enjoy it !!

Mart.

[Tineca]

Thanks mart

[rix313]

I really enjoy seeing original and uncommon spec cars like this

[Tineca]

Thanks mate going to keep it original in fact just located a blaupunkt radio

[Andyboy]

I saw a mint bronzit beige C plate 323i 2 door last week in Sheffield. Looked completely original, driven by a guy in his mid 60's.

YWU is a Leeds plate iirc.

[Andyboy]

Love an original Old 323i.

Don't want to shatter the rose-tints but the E30 323i engine was not their best. It was often mated to a small-case diff and a weak E21 gearbox which the later engines tended to make short work of. The cam made the top end rattle and the pistons slapped.

They had 'character' but that is not what you bought one of those for. Went like stink in the day though

Old 323i.

? The OP has one of the newest (and not a bad thing in some respects)

The 325i was the proper one. Late 323i's from mid 84 had the bigger diff (I never broke a 168 though), 150 bhp and they gradually erased some of the under bonnet nonsense like that ridiculous vacuum retard system fitted to manual gearbox cars. 150 bhp cars were less cammy due to the improved lobe profile. The 260 manual box was just about unbreakable. 245 'Doglegs' were absolute shite.

[flybynite]

The 325i was the proper one. Late 323i's from mid 84 had the bigger diff (I never broke a 168 though), 150 bhp and they gradually erased some of the under bonnet nonsense like that ridiculous vacuum retard system fitted to manual gearbox cars. 150 bhp cars were less cammy due to the improved lobe profile. The 260 manual box was just about unbreakable. 245 'Doglegs' were absolute shite.

You're not wrong.

I had (and still have) one of the first 150 bhp cars. I have had it for over 30 years and it has been in the family since '86.

I did not break the 168 as such but the LSD did not grip for long, the 245 dogleg was made of chocolate and went the way of the wind quite quickly. The 260 that went in its place did need a rear bearing which as you know is a pain but it did 100k after with no issues.

It was the piston-slap that got me

When I retired it after 10 years and bought a 325i it was a revelation!

As I said it is no bad thing the OP has one of the last ones

[Tineca]

That's good to hear

[hennabm]

Hi Tineca - welcome to another 323i owner.

[Tineca]

Hey thanks for the welcome

[hennabm]

Look forward to the resto thread.

[Sanchez]

Welcome, nice original looking e30 there.

[Tineca]

Thanks been getting some great help from the folk on this forum

[agisthos]

The OP's car is very nice, and very clean engine bay.

I had (and still have) one of the first 150 bhp cars. I have had it for over 30 years and it has been in the family since '86.

It was the piston-slap that got me

I am interested to know when the change to a 150 bhp variant occurred in the life of the 323i. What was your build date? And what were the changes that gave the extra 11 hp, because the ECU looks the same according to Realoem. Was it just a change in the cam, or other things as well like distributor (curving) being different?

Also you said you had the first 150bhp model but it still came with the smaller diff. Does this smaller diff only take under 1 litre fluid?

I do note you mention piston slap a few times in other threads, I have an August 84 and it never slapped. Was fine when starting from cold. I just did a rebuild with 81mm oversize pistons, and again no slap. But I am talking Australia and our idea of cold is 5 degrees above c....

[agisthos]

Late 323i's from mid 84 had the bigger diff (I never broke a 168 though), 150 bhp and they gradually erased some of the under bonnet nonsense like that ridiculous vacuum retard system fitted to manual gearbox cars. 150 bhp cars were less cammy due to the improved lobe profile. The 260 manual box was just about unbreakable. 245 'Doglegs' were absolute shite.

This is where I get confused. So the later 150 bhp had the less aggressive cam? I though it was more cammy? Do we know what the cam measurements are on the 323i, both cam variants? because its impossible to find this info. If any of you guys know post away....

[Andyboy]

The 323i came out with 139 bhp. That was less than the previous E21 K Jetronic with 143 bhp. Not only was it slower than the E21, it wasn't a deal faster than a good 320i. They were upgraded around March/April 1983 - cam, exhaust front pipe/silencer and the distributor although it wasn't announced as a model change until September 1983. At the time my Dad was BMW GB's technical manager in charge of the press fleet amongst other things. A couple of long term loan cars were recalled on the sly. The driver was asked to drop it at his local BMW dealer whereupon a covered truck was waiting to whisk it away to Bracknell where the revised parts were fitted and the car returned late afternoon. BMW dropped the vacuum advance/retard distributor a year later, using the advance only unit from the automatic on all cars. The ECU is the same on all cars including the 320i. All that does is open and close the injectors that are the same as 320i ones. Bosch revised the ECU when BMW dropped the vacuum retard on the distributor.

BMW stopped supply of the original 323i cam in early '83 and the later one was the default cam, unique to the 323i.

The type 168 diff was good enough really - E36 320i's have 150 bhp and run a 168 without a problem. The bigger 188 diff (medium case) arrived for Autumn 1984 on autos and 5 speed standard cars. This was just an E28 diff with a new rear alloy cover and smaller output shafts. But, 323i's with the sports (dogleg) gearbox retained the 168 small case. The final drive was 3.45 on auto and overdrive cars or 3.23/3.25 on cars with the sport gearbox and earlier 139 bhp cars with whatever gearbox.

Originally, the 245 dogleg box wasn't listed as an option and 320i's used either a Getrag 240 or a ZF S5/16 box.

[flybynite]

I am interested to know when the change to a 150 bhp variant occurred in the life of the 323i. What was your build date? And what were the changes that gave the extra 11 hp, because the ECU looks the same according to Realoem. Was it just a change in the cam, or other things as well like distributor (curving) being different.

You are giving the ECU more credit than it deserves, back then it was done by working metal not silicon. AFAIK the cam was not changed, There was a piston change 9/83 and mine has a build date around then so I am guessing the bump in power was done with compression. It also was when the piston-slap came in.

Also you said you had the first 150bhp model but it still came with the smaller diff. Does this smaller diff only take under 1 litre fluid?

Yes that is the one, you can also tell by the number of bolts in the back cover. Mine was an LSD so obviously different oil

I do note you mention piston slap a few times in other threads, I have an August 84 and it never slapped. Was fine when starting from cold. I just did a rebuild with 81mm oversize pistons, and again no slap. But I am talking Australia and our idea of cold is 5 degrees above c....

There was another piston design change about a year later (so yours may have had them from the start) I put them in on the second re-build which helped but did not cure the problem. Spoke to a couple of other 323i owners at the time who had the same problem which BMW GB acknowledged but never actually cured. One theory was the fuel in the UK at the time.

Mine was built as an Alpina from new by the supplying dealer but AFAIK the engine was not altered as that could only be done in Germany at the time

[hennabm]

Mine has always suffered from piston slap when cold. I've had it since it was 40k miles. I put it down to the first year of it's life and used as a press car.

A mate with a May 83 323i, has never had the same, even though his was a company car originally but always driven by the same person.

[flybynite]

Mine has always suffered from piston slap when cold. I've had it since it was 40k miles. I put it down to the first year of it's life and used as a press car.

A mate with a May 83 323i, has never had the same, even though his was a company car originally but always driven by the same person.

That is really interesting, I had always made the assumption that the piston-slap came with the power bump end of '83.

If it is any reassurance, mine slapped like the proverbial when cold but when I stripped it down the engine was perfect, no wear at all. All the factory honing marks still in the bores. Couldn't find a single thing out of spec.

The only thing I could see were faint witness marks on the piston skirts, hardly anything on the bores. By the sound it made you would think the bore was oval enough to get your hand past it.

Confused the heck out of me and by all accounts BMW were no better off either

[Speedtouch]

A tip you can do to improve L-Jetronic is to remove the centrifugal rev limiter (contact and spring) that is built into the underside of the rotor arm, which abruptly cuts the engine power at around 6,000 rpm; the ECU in any case has a built in rev limiter, that provides a more progressive cut at around 6,250 rpm.

I did this to both my pre-facelift 1984 & 1987 320i's, back in the day when I regularly indulged in high rpms for traffic lights grand prix, etc.