Toyo proxes t1-s for a track toy? Opinions needed

[Jon_Bmw]

I've been thinking about these tyres for a track day toy, not an e30 but some jap rubbish. On the car at the moment is 195/60 15 i think, which is rubbish for track days lets be honest, feels like you are on stilts really. not mentioning that they are crappy perellis.

Bear in mind at this point this is for dry track days.

These proxies can be had for peanuts in 195 50 15 V rated, now what I want to know really, is has anyone used them on a track. I'm slightly worried about them overheating and falling apart as can apprently happen with eagle F1's. This causes extreme tyre wear and means you get through a set in a day.

I'm not bashing Eagle F1's as I rate them very highly, heck i have a set kicking about somewhere, but will the proxies do the same as the F1's. Has anyone had an experience with them on fast road or track days, i don't mean pottering round A roads fairly fast either. Full on going at corners for 15 mins at a time.

So questions really:

Will the Proxies overheat?
Will they offer good levels of grip in the dry?


Now you are probably thinking why not just use some branded slicks and get loads of grip as its a dedicated toy. The reason being is I am VERY loothe(spel?) to using slicks without a roll cage, for obvious reasons.

So opinions on these proxies would be good, god anything will be better than those perellis!

[Dunx]

T1-s are very soft heard they grip well but run out very quickly

the size your using is smaller than the oem size so speedo would be out - but Im sure you know that

t1-r's are the new ones - and theyre supposed to last better - thinking I'll be running these on the e30 when I get tyres next.

[Jon_Bmw]

T1-s are very soft heard they grip well but run out very quickly

the size your using is smaller than the oem size so speedo would be out - but Im sure you know that

t1-r's are the new ones - and theyre supposed to last better - thinking I'll be running these on the e30 when I get tyres next.

I thought they might be quite a soft compound, I suppose if they last 2 or 3 track days I could be convinced. Seems a shame when I can get them for £25 a tyre. Yeah no worries about the fact the tyre size is smaller, makes no difference to me

Hmmm i'll have to look into the t1-r's then perhaps.

Thanks for your opinion

[fuzzy]

t1-r did replace the t1-s, i use the t1-r on my car,they are indeed very soft and wear out quick but offer great grip in the dry.its the only tyre i use.

[E30Mark]

Jon, where do you get proxes for £25 ea? i need two for the front of mine after the 'Haynes day' bash...

I run toyo's on the rear of mine, they got slightly chewed up after the stint at Haynes, i don't know how they would last on a proper trackday...

[Jon_Bmw]

Jon, where do you get proxes for £25 ea? i need two for the front of mine after the 'Haynes day' bash...

I run toyo's on the rear of mine, they got slightly chewed up after the stint at Haynes, i don't know how they would last on a proper trackday...

Through a trade price at a garage I used to work for. The reason they are that cheap is because they are 195 50 15 i guess and its a trade price. I'm not sure what 205 55 15 would be, considerably more I would imagine. If you are interested in the 195 50 15s and I do get some, I could stick you down for a couple i'm sure at cost plus 10% i'm sure

I get the feeling the tyres would fall to bits, but I may just try them to see.

[Jhonno]

t1-r's are the new version.. harder wearing and better compound

im running them on my coupe in 205/50/16 flavour and they've done 12k or so and still have 5mm of tread in the middle!! worn slightly on the inner edges, but im gonna swap left to right etc to get more mileage out of them

[Jon_Bmw]

t1-r's are the new version.. harder wearing and better compound

im running them on my coupe in 205/50/16 flavour and they've done 12k or so and still have 5mm of tread in the middle!! worn slightly on the inner edges, but im gonna swap left to right etc to get more mileage out of them

Well if they can be persuaded to do 12k+ mileage then i'm sure they can be persuaded to do 2 or 3 track days, if they start overheating i'll have to come off for a bit.

[Jhonno]

i reckon they will stand up to a track day or 2.. make sure you increase pressures in them of course

there are a few thousand more miles in these tyres for sure

[E30Mark]

Through a trade price at a garage I used to work for. The reason they are that cheap is because they are 195 50 15 i guess and its a trade price. I'm not sure what 205 55 15 would be, considerably more I would imagine. If you are interested in the 195 50 15s and I do get some, I could stick you down for a couple i'm sure at cost plus 10% i'm sure

Jon, can you get me a couple of the Toyo's? 195 / 50 15's is what i'm running anyway!

[Jon_Bmw]

Through a trade price at a garage I used to work for. The reason they are that cheap is because they are 195 50 15 i guess and its a trade price. I'm not sure what 205 55 15 would be, considerably more I would imagine. If you are interested in the 195 50 15s and I do get some, I could stick you down for a couple i'm sure at cost plus 10% i'm sure

Jon, can you get me a couple of the Toyo's? 195 / 50 15's is what i'm running anyway!

Mark i'm just going to france for a week tomorrow, but send me a PM in about a week and i'm sure I can get you a couple, it might be at £25+ the dreaded, i can't remember off the top of my head.

[E30Mark]

Cheers Jon,

I'll PM you in a weeks time,

Bon voyage!

[Huge]

FWIW, I use T1-Rs on my (ahem) Honda Integra-R, although the size is a bit different at 195/55/15..

Done a couple of track days and they seem great to me - the 2 fronts are still there after more than 10K miles.. They squeal a lot at speed but are very forgiving - although I couldn't say how much that is down to the Honda chassis.

I bought two 205/55/15s for my 318-iS and I pay £65 each fitted - exactly the same as the 195/55s - but both these are about £20 more that the 195/50s..

[dazleeds]

slightly ot

but im fitting new wheels to the mrs Is anytime now

ats cups 7x15s

my Q is will 195x55x15s be ok for the rims??
im also gonna get the toyos but if i got to 205s the price doubles

will the 195s be cool??

cheers

[Huge]

Daz,

I can only give my experience but I've bought T1R's in 195/55/15 and 205/55/15 and they both cost £65/tyre.
It's only the 195/50/15 size that is cheaper..

The 195/50/15 will fit your wheels OK but the diameter is smaller than the 2 other sizes so you will be running higher revs at cruising..

cheers,

[stE30]

.



god dude i hope your having a gigle!
Pirelli have never made a bad tyre.
In fact none of the top 6 or so manufacturers in the world have, there may be the odd exception as with the 4x4 tyre made in America for a Ford 4x4 vehicle.
The top manufacturers are, Bridgestone, Dunlop, Goodyear, Michelin, Pirelli and Yokohama.
You may dislike the tyres you have on your car because there is too much give in the side wall. How old are they? Rubber is porous and does deteriorate with age, they are std road tyes though aren`t they?
Pirelli are as good at making tyres as anyone else, i know i used to work for them!
If you want track day specials buy Toyo 888`s they are not slicks and are road legal they will last 2 to 3000 miles too maybe, maybe not actually.
If you are talking track tyres the Pirellis on your car will probably not feel good but the chances are that they were made to cover big mileage like 20 odd thousand miles you will be lucky to get half of that from Toyo`s, any Toyo`s....r`s or s`s
I know i`ve had them (T1 `S) fitted to a car in the past, they are good, great in fact.
Saying that the Pirellis are shite is like saying that an e30 m3 is not economical. You are totally missing the point there, take the P6000, quite an ordinary tyre, yes they are now, but also very economical because they use less rubber and less carbon black in the manufacturing process, they use more silicone because it gives a longer life and less rolling resistance and therefore better fuel economy than other manufactuers comparable tyres at that time (of general sales release).
good but not for ragging your car round a track compared to racing tyres.
I`m not ranting e.t.c. it`s just my opinion.
Buy the 888`s or buy the Dunlop track day specials but you won`t get them for peanuts !
Toyo are trying to corner a market and make a name for themselves so for now you will get T1 r`s or T1 s`s cheap.
like i said, i`m not ranting honest but horses for courses e.t.c.

[Jon_Bmw]

I've been thinking about these tyres for a track day toy, not an e30 but some jap rubbish. On the car at the moment is 195/60 15 i think, which is rubbish for track days lets be honest, feels like you are on stilts really. not mentioning that they are crappy perellis.

Bear in mind at this point this is for dry track days.

These proxies can be had for peanuts in 195 50 15 V rated, now what I want to know really, is has anyone used them on a track. I'm slightly worried about them overheating and falling apart as can apprently happen with eagle F1's. This causes extreme tyre wear and means you get through a set in a day.

I'm not bashing Eagle F1's as I rate them very highly, heck i have a set kicking about somewhere, but will the proxies do the same as the F1's. Has anyone had an experience with them on fast road or track days, i don't mean pottering round A roads fairly fast either. Full on going at corners for 15 mins at a time.

So questions really:

Will the Proxies overheat?
Will they offer good levels of grip in the dry?


Now you are probably thinking why not just use some branded slicks and get loads of grip as its a dedicated toy. The reason being is I am VERY loothe(spel?) to using slicks without a roll cage, for obvious reasons.

So opinions on these proxies would be good, god anything will be better than those perellis!

god dude i hope your having a gigle!
Pirelli have never made a bad tyre.
In fact none of the top 6 or so manufacturers in the world have, there may be the odd exception as with the 4x4 tyre made in America for a Ford 4x4 vehicle.
The top manufacturers are, Bridgestone, Dunlop, Goodyear, Michelin, Pirelli and Yokohama.
You may dislike the tyres you have on your car because there is too much give in the side wall. How old are they? Rubber is porous and does deteriorate with age, they are std road tyes though aren`t they?
Pirelli are as good at making tyres as anyone else, i know i used to work for them!
If you want track day specials buy Toyo 888`s they are not slicks and are road legal they will last 2 to 3000 miles too maybe, maybe not actually.
If you are talking track tyres the Pirellis on your car will probably not feel good but the chances are that they were made to cover big mileage like 20 odd thousand miles you will be lucky to get half of that from Toyo`s, any Toyo`s....r`s or s`s
I know i`ve had them (T1 `S) fitted to a car in the past, they are good, great in fact.
Saying that the Pirellis are shite is like saying that an e30 m3 is not economical. You are totally missing the point there, take the P6000, quite an ordinary tyre, yes they are now, but also very economical because they use less rubber and less carbon black in the manufacturing process, they use more silicone because it gives a longer life and less rolling resistance and therefore better fuel economy than other manufactuers comparable tyres at that time (of general sales release).
good but not for ragging your car round a track compared to racing tyres.
I`m not ranting e.t.c. it`s just my opinion.
Buy the 888`s or buy the Dunlop track day specials but you won`t get them for peanuts !
Toyo are trying to corner a market and make a name for themselves so for now you will get T1 r`s or T1 s`s cheap.
like i said, i`m not ranting honest but horses for courses e.t.c.

The above was in reference to using the perilli tyres that were on the car on a track. I.E they are shit. I'm sure they are a good tyre on the normal road, if you want to get lots a mileage out of them. But the topic title kinda gives away what the tyres are used for

I'm on a budget(arn't we all) so I was just trying to establish what people thought of these t1-s. Not flame the poor perillis. They just have no use for my intended purpose

[M5pilot]

I just came back from Oulton Park today in my M5.

Had these tyres on 17's at the rear and they were really good until a point.

Once they got really hot the back end started stepping out and lots of sideways action was experienced

[Jon_Bmw]

I just came back from Oulton Park today in my M5.

Had these tyres on 17's at the rear and they were really good until a point.

Once they got really hot the back end started stepping out and lots of sideways action was experienced

Sounds like a continuos good point to me

[MikeeMiracle]

I have done a few trackdays on T1S and T1R's. They will both melt by lunchtime leaving you with less grip and a lot of frustration that you can't enjoy the rest of the day as the tires are shot. The Toyo's are brilliant road tyre's but do not cut it on track in any way shape or form. I managed to use 3mm of T1R's in just 4 laps of the 'ring. The following day at Spa-Francoshamps I did 20 laps. If you look at the treds afterwards, the tred blocks had 4mm on 1 edge left and 1mm on the other edge....this is of each tred block!!! In effect I had to drive home with 1/4 or 1/3 of the normal contact patch on the road. This was all in my Civic Type-R.

If you don't want to go for dedicated semi-slicks like the Toyo 888's or the Dunlop Formula R then if you can get them in the right size, Yoko Parada Spec 2's are simply the nuts. Over a T1R they have around 25% more dry grip, tons more traction, and a nice and stiff sidewall for when your REALLY leaning on the car. I recon the Parada's are the best gripping tyre you can get on the road short of semi-slicks. They have very large tred blocks so it almost functions as a semi-slick but still has better than expected wet grip too.

[m-dtech]

i like yokahamas

[Jon_Bmw]

I have done a few trackdays on T1S and T1R's. They will both melt by lunchtime leaving you with less grip and a lot of frustration that you can't enjoy the rest of the day as the tires are shot. The Toyo's are brilliant road tyre's but do not cut it on track in any way shape or form. I managed to use 3mm of T1R's in just 4 laps of the 'ring. The following day at Spa-Francoshamps I did 20 laps. If you look at the treds afterwards, the tred blocks had 4mm on 1 edge left and 1mm on the other edge....this is of each tred block!!! In effect I had to drive home with 1/4 or 1/3 of the normal contact patch on the road. This was all in my Civic Type-R.

If you don't want to go for dedicated semi-slicks like the Toyo 888's or the Dunlop Formula R then if you can get them in the right size, Yoko Parada Spec 2's are simply the nuts. Over a T1R they have around 25% more dry grip, tons more traction, and a nice and stiff sidewall for when your REALLY leaning on the car. I recon the Parada's are the best gripping tyre you can get on the road short of semi-slicks. They have very large tred blocks so it almost functions as a semi-slick but still has better than expected wet grip too.

Ah good, its nice to have another first hand opinion. We actually only do half track days currently, due to fecking about with trailers and such like.

Do you think the excessive tyre wear was to due to it being front wheel drive, or did they wear the rear tyres too? Only because they'll be going on a rear wheel drive 200sx.

When you went to the ring, did you do 4 continous laps, or did you let them cool down in between??

[MikeeMiracle]

Only because they'll be going on a rear wheel drive 200sx.

When you went to the ring, did you do 4 continous laps, or did you let them cool down in between??

LMFAO @ 200SX, I would say they stand no chance of lasting. The same dodgy wear patterns were on the rear tyre's too. Bear in mind the grip levels at various wear rates. The T1S have awesome grip......for about 2mm of tred, then they grip drops off very quickly until you have say 40% of the tred left and they are useless at that point and may aswell be junked. The T1R have a much stiffer sidewall so that helps if your a smooth driver as you can get say 85/90% of the cornering speed when new when they are on their last 15/20% of grip left but only if you can drive very smoothly.

I may aswell have worked for Toyo. I first discovered them on the Civic and preeched to the civic forums about them for 2/3 years, expesically when the T1R's came out. After the Yoko Parada's Spec 2's came out though (the first tyre with an acceptable wet grip level from Yoko IMO,) I soon shut up. The Yoko's are soft but the huge tred patterns means the tred blocks do not move around as much, do not heat up as much and hardly melt at all. My mate got 3 track days out of them.

At the ring I did 2 x 2 laps. I bought a 6 lap ticket but was forced to give this away as I would have had no grip left for Spa (Belgian GP track) the following day.

[oldroydsr4]

The Toyos T1R are great trackday tyres offer great allround performance , use them on a 350bhp mr2 turbo track car. However did a set of rears on 1 track day so beware. can't complain for £25ea though.

dave

[Jon_Bmw]

Only because they'll be going on a rear wheel drive 200sx.

When you went to the ring, did you do 4 continous laps, or did you let them cool down in between??

LMFAO @ 200SX, I would say they stand no chance of lasting. The same dodgy wear patterns were on the rear tyre's too. Bear in mind the grip levels at various wear rates. The T1S have awesome grip......for about 2mm of tred, then they grip drops off very quickly until you have say 40% of the tred left and they are useless at that point and may aswell be junked. The T1R have a much stiffer sidewall so that helps if your a smooth driver as you can get say 85/90% of the cornering speed when new when they are on their last 15/20% of grip left but only if you can drive very smoothly.

I may aswell have worked for Toyo. I first discovered them on the Civic and preeched to the civic forums about them for 2/3 years, expesically when the T1R's came out. After the Yoko Parada's Spec 2's came out though (the first tyre with an acceptable wet grip level from Yoko IMO,) I soon shut up. The Yoko's are soft but the huge tred patterns means the tred blocks do not move around as much, do not heat up as much and hardly melt at all. My mate got 3 track days out of them.

At the ring I did 2 x 2 laps. I bought a 6 lap ticket but was forced to give this away as I would have had no grip left for Spa (Belgian GP track) the following day.

Hmm with 275bhp I am now starting to wonder whether they will hold up, but the perellis did, but they are reknown for being a hard compound. I guess there is one way of finding out. Try try try. I might have a serious look into those yoko's, before reading what you wrote, i always thought that they were not that good in the wet, but you seem to disagree with that. I have some eagle f1's for rain anyway.

Whilst were on the rough topic off track tyres, I have also been offered some part worn slicks which i will know the history off, now I was considering running them on one axle only purely because I have no cage, and am worried by the obvious rolling issue. Would front end grip be more important, i am thinking it would and be more gentle with the right pedel?

What do we think?

[MikeeMiracle]

The E30 might be a lot kinder to tyre's but I do not know yet. I can only offer experiences which were with a civic type-r.

Im very curious to see what people say about running slicks on only one axle as im relatively new to RWD but on FWD it's a definate no no!...............well if you drive it properly that is.

[handpaper]

I've done a fair bit of checking on forums (including this one), review sites and the like and it seems that a set of T1-Rs will suit my 320i nicely.
Trouble is, ever since 'Tokyo Drift' came out, every bloody riced-up Civic* and Corolla just has to have a set, which means there's none left for me! My local tyre place is 'waiting for the boat to come in'
Is the T1-S that much worse? They have those, at least.
They're just for general road use, mainly, but I am going to the 'Ring 22-23/07 and would like to stay on the grey stuff

*No offence meant, MikeeMiracle. Real Type-R Civics that shred tyres at the 'Ring are not rice.

[MikeeMiracle]

Mate, You'll have to go pretty low to offend me

Im really unsure what you mean by the term "rice." A typical Max Muppet's car that looks like it can do 1000mph but in reality can barely break 100mph? Please explain.

The T1S are that much worse unfortunately. It's mainly due to the tyre wear and how much grip it leaves you with afterwards. They grip drops off very quickly when you get to around 60% of tred left leaving you wanting to change them when you still have 3/4mm of tred left.

[handpaper]

Im really unsure what you mean by the term "rice." A typical Max Muppet's car that looks like it can do 1000mph but in reality can barely break 100mph? Please explain.

That's exactly it. See http://www.riceboypage.com for a fuller explanation. I'll have to remember the term 'Max Muppet'

Luckily camskills had four T1-Rs in 205/50-R15 for £190 (£10 off for buying four - thanks Brian). Hopefully I'll have them by Monday.

What beats me is why anyone would put wide, sticky rubber on a drift car.......

[MikeeMiracle]

Well my car definately wasn't rice in that case. I've always been a performance man, not a poser.

Besides, half the fun of being able to drive properly is embarassing posers in more powerful cars. Generally people with Beemers (no offence) or Audi TiT drivers.