Adjustable topmounts.

Post Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:44 pm

Hi guys.

Posted in here as there's more chance of a sensible reply than in the tech section!

I'm looking for some camber and castor adjusting topmounts for use on standard struts (IE not coilover struts with 2.25" springs).

I'm looking to fit E36M3 front struts in place of my E30M3 ones and want to be able to adjust the geometry (see my post on M3 Alignment recently in the tech section).

Does anyone know of a suitable product, and where to get it in the UK> Many thanks.

Jai

Post Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:36 am

Hi

I have these for sale and can get mounts to use the standard springs

Jason

Post Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:27 pm

As an alternative to Jason's offereing, you could use these

They require sleeves to match your shock insert and you'll also need access to a camber/castor guage for setting up prior to drilling the mounting holes too

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:09 am

The ground control ones look the absolute nuts.. What's required to fit standard springs? A new spring cup or something like that?

Seeing as I shall only really need to adjust them once (properly anyway) I might be better off going for they type reccomended by BadDave. I spose to the same end it wouldn't hurt to have a go at modifying the E36 M3 Evo ones I have and drilling them/finishing them with the aid of an alignment rig.

Has anyone got a solid top bearing type topmount on an otherwise fast road car? I'd like to do the occasional trackday and the like but it wont be a full on track car ever. How does the lack of large rubber bush affect the handling/nvh? Does the car become harsh?

Does anyone have any helpful opinnions?

Cheers guys.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:42 am

Hi for a road car try k-mac ones

Jason

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:22 pm

Whereabouts can you get them in the UK guys?

Cheers..

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:23 pm

dont think you can..

import.. but makes them cheeeeaap cheeeep atm

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:28 pm

jai - I've been looking at some front toppies for a while. tried to get a group buy rolling some time back- you'll see it if you look in the group buy section. Take a look at what I was offering and if you find cheaper start your own group buy mate. I'll get my name down for starters.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:40 pm

Import from Australia or the US?

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:41 pm

Yeah - either is fine. Mine were made in UK though. but not the cheapest I think.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:45 pm

US.. K-mac are $345+ shipping atm - so Ã‚£175+shipping

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:49 pm

I think the ones I was looking at came in at about 220 delivered, made in the UK buy MED iirc. They looked like a nice design. They were on a height adjustable collar too.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:54 pm

Yeah but you would need 10 people..

these work out about the same with single purchase..

Wonder how many they'd want to do a group buy..

if more than one person wants, should combine the shipping

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:03 pm

No need for 10 people for the MED ones. The one set only price was only a few quid more expensive, like about a fiver I think. Not trying to advocate any particular set - just sharing what I found when I looked in to it a while ago.

but, yes - we defo need to group up for a buy that's for sure.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:37 pm

The MED ones look like they have solid bushings rather than the inclusion of the polyeurathane section that the K-Mac ones have. As my car is going to be used on the road more than any track action, I think I'd like to keep some compliance in the system...

I don't need a huge ammount of adjustment. With all standard topmounts the castor and camber using the E36 stuff is nearly bang on for E30's; I'm after the adjustable ones so I can exactly match the E30 M3 Evo specs and to allow for manufacturing differences. Looking to get 9.5 degrees of castor and 1 degree of negative camber on both sides with 17 minutes of toe.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:29 pm

Be interesting to see the m3 top mounts. afaik most of the castor comes the control arm bushes. I presume that's 17mins of toe-in - that should be achievable just from the tracking adjustments.

Is 1deg neg camber enough? what's the stock e30 setting?

Been meaning to say for a while - I love your avatar - top stuff

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:34 pm

Castor comes from the horizontal difference in the apparent upper mount and apparent lower mount of the strut in McPhearson strut systems. That can come from an offset bush moving the bottom or an adjustable mount moving the top..

The tracking will adjust the toe yes.. Just mentioned it.

The stock E30 setting for the M3 is 9 degrees 30 minutes of castor and 55 minutes of camber if I recall.. It's in the tech section/links thingy. Have a look at my post on M3 alignment recently in the tech section.

The E36 topmounts are trÃƒ©s cool but obviously only for an E36. Will have to get some photo's up. To use them they'll need modifying. I think some sort of clamp plate affair would be best so they can be adjusted on car.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:48 pm

jaistanley wrote:Castor comes from the horizontal difference in the apparent upper mount and apparent lower mount of the strut in McPhearson strut systems. That can come from an offset bush moving the bottom or an adjustable mount moving the top..

Yeah - I meant to phrase it as a question - do the top mounts add castor above and beyond what the control arm bushes give?

jaistanley wrote:
The tracking will adjust the toe yes.. Just mentioned it.

The stock E30 setting for the M3 is 9 degrees 30 minutes of castor and 55 minutes of camber if I recall.. It's in the tech section/links thingy. Have a look at my post on M3 alignment recently in the tech section.

The E36 topmounts are trÃƒ©s cool but obviously only for an E36. Will have to get some photo's up. To use them they'll need modifying. I think some sort of clamp plate affair would be best so they can be adjusted on car.

Not see the e36 ones, I'd like to see some photos. I suspect that even if they're easily modifiable they'd still cost a packet new? I think my standard e30 top mounts were about 70 a piece!

Do you mean all e36 mounts, or just the e36 m3 ones?

If you want to get to m3 spec - can you just use e30 m3 top mounts?

Post Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:49 am

Top mounts can add more castor on top of what the TCA bushes will yes.. Basically it's the angle of the strut when looking at the car side on.

The E36 ones I have are the M3 Evo ones. The standard E36 ones are concentric I believe. The Evo ones are WAY offset. I shall try and get a photo tomorrow. They are part of the package that increases the E36 castor from a std 3.something degrees to 7.something! They are quite expensive new I think, not mega money though. They incorporate a smaller, but still rubber, pillow section. The concern when using them (re-drilled) in an E30 is that the strut will hit the inside of the strut tower. No more than using any other adjustable/modiied topmount though.

Going for M3 spec is a matter of matching parts to alignment (basicaly I'm chasing getting the same numbers after I finish as an M3 would leaving the factory). I already have full M3 running gear on one car and was going to swap that over before but because of a few reasons (ABS and bigger brakes mostly) I'm going for E36 stuff in the project car. The E30M3 and std E30 suspension is a lot more closely related (geometry wise) than the M3 purist bummers would have you believe. BMW didn't use pentograms and virgin blood

. The M3 topmounts are concentric (and the same I believe) as normal E30 ones.

PS: Get your OEM parts from ZimmerBimmer1! I recently saw his reply to a topmount question at around Ã‚£37 each!!! The offset (plus or minus 30 minutes) BMW ones are no-doubt more.

Post Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:25 pm

cheers Jai - I think you still mis-understood me

I know that top mounts *can* change castor and I know what castor is. I was just wondering if the m3 one DO change the castor?

I'd love to see the e36 photos

As for the oem topmounts - I did get them from Paul - maybe they were 70odd for the pair - either way typical expensive bmw parts

M3 purist bummers

lol

Post Thu May 01, 2008 10:44 am

All e30 top mounts are the same unless they are camber correction top mounts designed for crash damage. Which are also the same but with the mounting holes in a different position.

Post Tue May 06, 2008 1:49 pm

he's rite there!!

Post Wed May 07, 2008 8:55 am

I am trying to get another batch of these finished end of May.

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... top+mounts

Post Sat May 10, 2008 10:34 am

The Ground Control ones are the daddy, however as a rule its not good practice to change camber and castor on the top mount alone.

The e36 has 3 different types of top mount, normal is a plain centred top mount, 3.0 the strut is mounted rearward to add castor, the evo has a slightly different set up, so the strut is mounted rearward and outward. its a common thing on the e36 to use the evo ones the wrong way round, this adds about 3.5 degrees or something.

I use AST ones from Powerstation, they are as adjustable as the like of Eibach, but a bit cheaper, however they do drop the car about 40mm as the top nut on the strut is now above the top mount instead of recessed into it.

I tried some of the type posted by BadDave, I wouldn't touch them again, they where a very poor design imho, adjustment on the car was not possible and they didn't have the level of preciseness that you would expect. Plus i have heard reports of the failing under hard use.