suspension setup for brands hatch

[gareth]

what range has it got? Might not be enough for brake disks.
They are quite handy, i.e. holding on the exhaust manifold after a cold start to see if one cylinder isn't firing properly.

It's got a range of -30°C to +500°C, not the highest top end out there but pretty good

Another thought, what sort of temperatures should i expect to see on the tyres?

It would be great to hear your feedback from the trackday. Will you be keeping a record of your settings, Gareth? I'm guessing timing equipment won't be allowed, though...

I like the nitrogen suggestion above.

I should be keeping a record of settings. ideally i want to have a 'road' setup with less camber to save straight line tyre wear as this is my daily driver, then a 'track' setup aimed more at handling and preserving the tyres under sustained hard cornering etc.

It's all a learning curve though and i'm not expecting to break records but the engineer in me insists on tinkering with everything, just because i can! It's rare to be able to compare suspension changes back to back and will be interesting to see.

I'm not sure if lap timing is allowed but i have no facility to do this. I have two brothers and a mate or two who will be there so no doubt one of them will time a lap or two just out of curiosity. i think i'll wait intil the day is over before asking the times though, after all that's now what i'm there for.

if i get round there 5 seconds slower than a saxo but have fun and a rewarding drive, i'll leave happy

[AlpineAde]

Gareth, you can get a fairly reasonable idea of laptimes by having a video camera in the car. Use your video editing software to check off the times at the start/finish line (or any consistent point on the circuit) and calculate from there. Easily accurate to a tenth of a second.

[UweM3]

what range has it got? Might not be enough for brake disks.
They are quite handy, i.e. holding on the exhaust manifold after a cold start to see if one cylinder isn't firing properly.

It's got a range of -30°C to +500°C, not the highest top end out there but pretty good

Another thought, what sort of temperatures should i expect to see on the tyres?

It would be great to hear your feedback from the trackday. Will you be keeping a record of your settings, Gareth? I'm guessing timing equipment won't be allowed, though...

I like the nitrogen suggestion above.

I should be keeping a record of settings. ideally i want to have a 'road' setup with less camber to save straight line tyre wear as this is my daily driver, then a 'track' setup aimed more at handling and preserving the tyres under sustained hard cornering etc.

It's all a learning curve though and i'm not expecting to break records but the engineer in me insists on tinkering with everything, just because i can! It's rare to be able to compare suspension changes back to back and will be interesting to see.

I'm not sure if lap timing is allowed but i have no facility to do this. I have two brothers and a mate or two who will be there so no doubt one of them will time a lap or two just out of curiosity. i think i'll wait intil the day is over before asking the times though, after all that's now what i'm there for.

if i get round there 5 seconds slower than a saxo but have fun and a rewarding drive, i'll leave happy

make sure they hide the stop watches, no joke

[AlpineAde]

make sure they hide the stop watches, no joke

That's true here in upside down land, too. You do not want to be seen using timing gear. Some organizations will actually ask you to leave the facility if caught.

[Brian28]

MSV own staff are also pretty clued up, so if they notice people "texting" on the pit wall they have been known to have a word. If it feels scary you're going quick enough , don't worry too much about lap times. Somebody will have an in car camera that will give you a near enough idea of times, or else keep an eye on the car clock first full lap and count your laps, will give you a rough idea of the average, ie ten laps in XX and a half minutes, you are also safer as this isn't really "using timing equipment" so no risk to you or the organisers.

[GeoffBob]

I like the nitrogen suggestion above.

Nitrogen expands (when heated) just like any other gas in accordance with the ideal gas law. Not to mention the fact that the air we breath is already 78% percent Nitrogen and is available for next to nothing from your nearest air compressor.

It seems to me that the practice of filling car tyres with Nitrogen has been handed down from the aircraft industry, where aircraft tyres are filled with nitrogen because a) it is reasonably inert (won't oxydise the rubber) and b) is free from moisture.

Compressed air contains both condensation and oxygen, potentially shortening the life of the tyre and rim. It is, however, a misconception that filling a tyre with pure Nitrogen will keep tyre pressure constant with temperature.

[Jhonno]

i have yet to adjust the front but this evening i turned the rear camber adjusting eccentric bolts 180° and now have about 2.7° positive camber. I'll have a crack at the front tomorrow

-ve surely?!

[Dezzy]

I like the nitrogen suggestion above.

Nitrogen expands (when heated) just like any other gas in accordance with the ideal gas law. Not to mention the fact that the air we breath is already 78% percent Nitrogen and is available for next to nothing from your nearest air compressor.

It seems to me that the practice of filling car tyres with Nitrogen has been handed down from the aircraft industry, where aircraft tyres are filled with nitrogen because a) it is reasonably inert (won't oxydise the rubber) and b) is free from moisture.

Compressed air contains both condensation and oxygen, potentially shortening the life of the tyre and rim. It is, however, a misconception that filling a tyre with pure Nitrogen will keep tyre pressure constant with temperature.

All the cost of filling nitrogen to car tyres has been taken up by F1 development

[E30ToRing]

Gareth, you can get a fairly reasonable idea of laptimes by having a video camera in the car. Use your video editing software to check off the times at the start/finish line (or any consistent point on the circuit) and calculate from there. Easily accurate to a tenth of a second.

This is a good plan. Brands won't allow suction mountings for the camera, though. I found out the hard way!

[gareth]

i won't really worry with timing and won't have a camera on board. i dont want to get chucked out!

my brother said there's an app for some posh wizzy phone that records lap times for you all by itself! coolness!

i have yet to adjust the front but this evening i turned the rear camber adjusting eccentric bolts 180° and now have about 2.7° positive camber. I'll have a crack at the front tomorrow

-ve surely?!

err, yes! i really must post online when i'm more awake!

[UweM3]

there you go

http://www.racechrono.com/news/?p=97

[AlpineAde]

i won't really worry with timing and won't have a camera on board. i dont want to get chucked out!

A camera won't get you chucked ~ as long as it is mounted in a way that the organizers are happy with. The days I do allow "sticky mounts"...which is cool for me.

there you go

http://www.racechrono.com/news/?p=97

There's a fellow on another forum I'm a member of who uses this app. It's pretty good from what he reports.

[gareth]

that's the kiddie shame my phone is so outdated really

i've been tweaking and set the car up at a reasonable starting point with about 2.7° camber on the rear and about 3.7° on the front. i can't get more camber than that, though i can add more castor but due to thow the top mounts work it will reduce camber.

i'll have a play with the ratio between the two on friday

[Motorhole]

Nitrogen expands (when heated) just like any other gas in accordance with the ideal gas law. Not to mention the fact that the air we breath is already 78% percent Nitrogen and is available for next to nothing from your nearest air compressor.

I wanted to say this...(being a physicist)...but I didn't have the bottle! Well said GeoffBob.

[gareth]

well, final prep completed...
rear seats and trims removed for what it's worth (still got the LPG tank in the spare wheel well but i'm not pulling that out!!!)

and most importantly, i cleaned it as we all know clean cars feel faster!

wish me luck, i'm outta here at 6am

[AlpineAde]

Enjoy the day, mate! They are great fun.

[billgatese30]

Good luck Gareth, remember, have fun and watch those mirrors

[Dezzy]

Good luck mate

[Brian28]

Sphincter control being tested just about now I reckon

[gareth]

Sphincter control being tested just about now I reckon

yep, it was going like a rabbits nose

All told, it was a very good day! It was wet at first but dried out by lunchtime.

In the wet/damp i had more heat on the inside edge of the tyres, then when i dried out that swapped over as i could corner harder and load up the tyres more. Overall, the tyre wear was very even with no need to swap the front left. a quick look round the paddock showed some very poorly looking front left tyres though!

I didn't play with the camber in the end as it seemed about right, instead i concentrated on balancing the shocks out a bit better and learning the lines.

I generally kept the tyre pressures to 40psi hot. each time i came in i had to drop them back down from 42ish

the brakes held up ok for most of it, though i new have a pad wear warning light on. i've not checked yet but it might just be a melted sensor - i had brake disc temperatures of up to 450°C at one point and my EBC reds held on ok! after that session, the brake pedal feels a lot softer and responds so a 'pump up' so i boiled my new ATE blue fluid! whoops!

my new rad and oil cooler worked though, that's the first time i've been able to constistantly belt the car around for more than 5 mins without it getting hot and angry with me!

My diff is definately a bit tall for belting round there though, paddock hill bend was 3rd then dropping to 2nd for druids, then up to third down the hill, back to second (very high RPM here) for graham hill bend, then 3rd then 4th on cooper straight, then 3rd from surtees right round to 4th on brabham straight.

that said, an unofficial birdie told me after we left that i was getting down to 1:03.5 with a passenger on board

oh, i managed an average of 6.1mpg too

the only 'real' problem i had during the day was when we left. upon driving out of the paddock it seems my clutch has died it got me home but is making a thumping noise and i can feel it through the pedal.

but it was too much fun to care about that minor trivia! Cheers for all the help lads

[Brian28]

Good man Gareth

[GeoffBob]

Congrats Gareth. Sounds like you had both an enjoyable and productive time (and a fair bit of fun using your new IR temp sensor)

[gareth]

well i pulled the gearbox off yesterday (not a fun job with a M30 i can assure you!) and found the clutch problem. luckily the clutch is actually ok, the flywheel mounting bolts were all loose and one had just started catching on the clutch plate!

[stoneyV6]

Sounds like you all had a good day ,, brands is a bit of a hike for me so i gave this one a miss,, just found this vid from a seven cossy and near the end is a white touring and a white E30.

[GeoffBob]

well i pulled the gearbox off yesterday (not a fun job with a M30 i can assure you!) and found the clutch problem. luckily the clutch is actually ok, the flywheel mounting bolts were all loose and one had just started catching on the clutch plate!

Oh my goodness Gareth A disaster that was waiting to happen. Good job you caught it when you did. Loctite the bolts down for heavens sake!

[gareth]

that's me! that corner where the seven cought me up was a bit sketchy, the car in front was pulling off but understeered straight across the track in front of me as he was on a wet line to turn into the pits! Missed that in the video though.

the other white E30 is danny_duke01 on here, driving mostly sideways

[gareth]

well i pulled the gearbox off yesterday (not a fun job with a M30 i can assure you!) and found the clutch problem. luckily the clutch is actually ok, the flywheel mounting bolts were all loose and one had just started catching on the clutch plate!

Oh my goodness Gareth A disaster that was waiting to happen. Good job you caught it when you did. Loctite the bolts down for heavens sake!

tell me about it! new bolts and plenty of loctite 638 high strength retainer should do it!

[UweM3]

well i pulled the gearbox off yesterday (not a fun job with a M30 i can assure you!) and found the clutch problem. luckily the clutch is actually ok, the flywheel mounting bolts were all loose and one had just started catching on the clutch plate!

Oh my goodness Gareth A disaster that was waiting to happen. Good job you caught it when you did. Loctite the bolts down for heavens sake!

tell me about it! new bolts and plenty of loctite 638 high strength retainer should do it!

holy cow, that was lucky! a flywheel out of control is no joke.
I never reuse flywheel bolts, they are just a few ££'s and come coated with thread lock from BMW. I know OTT, but I d not change flywheels once a month so this ins't really a huge expense.

[Jhonno]

Gareth.. Was that you belting down the outside lane of the M20 about 8:00-8:30 then..?!

[gareth]

ahaa, the M20, heading the wrong way from the M25 to brands hatch, in convoy with a blue seat leon with no sense of direction and late for signing on? could have been yes!
mine has black BBS's and a towball

[Jhonno]

..and a 'Ring sticker on the back left corner of the bootlid? Blue Leon rings a bell (I don't take much notice of things like that, but an E30 I double take..)

We were in the inside lane with a trailer, on the way to the Chunnel, not that you would have noticed us!

[gareth]

yep, that was me
i did notice a load of cars on that road with empty car trailers so probably saw you on my way past.
i like the fruits of your shopping trip by the way

[Jhonno]

I need to stop spending on building and start actually spending on track days at some point!!

[gareth]

I need to stop spending on building and start actually spending on track days at some point!!

too right!

[RPM]

How was the new surface Gareth?

Heard its a bit sketchy in the wet at the mo?

Playing there this friday