Big Brake Kit recommendations

[Ace 325i]

Thanks for the quick reply!

They will be okay for my pre-facelift 325 chromie? No fitting/compatiblity issues? I am on 14"(?) bottletops at the moment.

EBC - red/yellow - which one would be ideal for a more road orientated set up?

[keri-WMS]

Thanks for the quick reply!

They will be okay for my pre-facelift 325 chromie? No fitting/compatiblity issues? I am on 14"(?) bottletops at the moment.

EBC - red/yellow - which one would be ideal for a more road orientated set up?

Ahhh.....You'll need 15" BBS's really but other than that it's all good. Reds are ideal for road/trackday use etc, Greens are "fast road" but we really don't rate them as Reds seem better when cold and more consistent.

It's just about possible to do a custom version of the kit with shorter brackets, 260mm-ish discs, and silly wheel spacers to fit the 14's.....but a set of 15's will be cheaper (esp some of the aftermarket ones)!

eBay etc (the 16/17" Alpina Reps fit as well):
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0396365796
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0523024765
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0443942961
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0386217316

[Ace 325i]

I am looking to upgrade my rims - Looking possibly at 16" BBS RS for the future but 15" BBS seem to be my choice until funds permit!

Slightly OT, but would this kit be okay with 16" BBS RS rims? I understand these are 5 stuf fitment - can adapters be used or would a conversion be neccessary?

Thanks!

[keri-WMS]

I am looking to upgrade my rims - Looking possibly at 16" BBS RS for the future but 15" BBS seem to be my choice until funds permit!

Slightly OT, but would this kit be okay with 16" BBS RS rims? I understand these are 5 stuf fitment - can adapters be used or would a conversion be neccessary?

Thanks!

So later on you'll be fitting 5-stud hubs (M3 front struts?) and 16" 5-stud BBS's? I don't have a kit for the M3, but I do have one (prototyped and awaiting testing) for the E36 which might fit with some tweaks. That uses a 325mm disc though thinking about it, and would need 17's unless you're really lucky, plus if the BBS RS rims are really deep that might create new problems as the spokes end up where the outer part of the caliper should be.

Whatever the case, the basic caliper/pad/brake lines part of the kit will be re-usable in future 5-stud WMS (E30 M3) kits so you wouldn't need to start again!

[Ace 325i]

For now, I'll be getting the 15" bbs! This shouldn't be problematic i hope.

I will get back to you on this!

Thanks for all your information .

[keri-WMS]

For now, I'll be getting the 15" bbs! This shouldn't be problematic i hope.

I will get back to you on this!

Thanks for all your information .

No problem! Let me know as soon as you know - while I've got them on the shelf now, each batch tends to go quite rapidly.

[The_Diddler]

Keri

I'll take a front set please, lets beat the VAT rise and get em ordered, PM on its way

[keri-WMS]

Keri

I'll take a front set please, lets beat the VAT rise and get em ordered, PM on its way

Good man!

[keri-WMS]

Should have done this ages ago:
http://www.keri.co.uk/wms/4P025-E30-280 ... otated.pdf

Open this PDF, print it out, check the scale....and see if the WMS kits will fit in your wheels!

Accuracy should be within 1.0mm but can't be 100% guaranteed, but it's a very good guide.

[keri-WMS]

Just a heads-up as I have made the PDF more accurate - there's more room in the centre than was shown in the previous version so I've orverwritten it with the corrected one (ie the links are still correct.)

[e30nail]

Do you have any numbers that show how much the 280mm kit inreases the brking force by, compaired to a standard set of brakes.

[Dezzy]

Do you have any numbers that show how much the 280mm kit inreases the brking force by, compaired to a standard set of brakes.

Lots and lots

[keri-WMS]

Do you have any numbers that show how much the 280mm kit inreases the brking force by, compaired to a standard set of brakes.

There IS an increase in torque, but the main thing you'll want to improve are other factors: lighter parts / improved brake modulation ("control") / resistance to heat and abuse.

If you go for a huge torque increase at the front you mess up the front-rear brake bias, meaning the fronts lock up too easily - so the increase offered by the WMS kit is designed to keep a sensible balance. What you'll find they feel a bit like OEM, but with "loads in reserve" when you need it!

If you want more front power for some reason there are two options though:

1 - Use the 1.38/1.38 piston size WMS calipers instead of 1.25/1.25.
2 - We are working on launching the 300mm kit for all those 16"+ people!

Lots and lots

lol, what Dezzy said!

[Dezzy]

Please keep me posted on 300mm discs and brackets mate. I would be very interested. Cheers

[keri-WMS]

Please keep me posted on 300mm discs and brackets mate. I would be very interested. Cheers

Will do - you not keeping your BBS's then?

[Dezzy]

Got some 16" ACT alloys. They look like bbs but are 7.5j. I wanted m3 16" bbs but they are too rich for my blood.

I will keep the 15" so I can change if I want but with 225/40x16 t1rs the grip should be improoved too.

[keri-WMS]

Got some 16" ACT alloys. They look like bbs but are 7.5j. I wanted m3 16" bbs but they are too rich for my blood.

I will keep the 15" so I can change if I want but with 225/40x16 t1rs the grip should be improoved too.

Sounds cool! I'm going to have two versions of the 300mm kit, one using a cheap but heavy disc which is a bit flatter than ideal, but if it fits in people's wheels there's no big issue. For the other I hope to use a deeper disc (about the same as the G60 one) to maximise wheel clearance - this one is a really really nice disc as well, and will be better for handling. At a later date it'll be alloy bell time as well.

For both versions I'll have PDF templates again, so people can see what'll fit in advance!

[Dezzy]

The second disc sounds nice what about drill or grooved?

[keri-WMS]

The second disc sounds nice what about drill or grooved?

Grooved as an option, don't do drilled discs due to the cracking risk!

[Dezzy]

Chop chop then mate let's have them.

[keri-WMS]

Chop chop then mate let's have them.

Yupyup, within a month (I hope), starting with the cheapest version....

[keri-WMS]

So who's got 16's then!!!!

www.keri.co.uk/wms/4P144-E30-300mm-T20-rotated.pdf
www.keri.co.uk/wms/4P028-E30-298_5mm-T20-rotated.pdf

Two kits, sharing the same bracket. The deeper one is more expensive, but gives more wheel clearance.

Has anyone got a 16" Alpina or 17" 'pina rep they could try these in by any chance?

[Rav335uk]

I can i have 16" alpinas or will these clear BBS 003's too.

[keri-WMS]

I can i have 16" alpinas or will these clear BBS 003's too.

I don't know chap!

If you want to know if they'll fit print them out and try them inside your wheels or ones you might be buying, or maybe we can get a few types tested by any kind hearted members who already own them?

[Rav335uk]

Will do and get back to you.

[keri-WMS]

Will do and get back to you.

Sweet!

I've got projected prices, and time for part numbers as well or confusion will rein!

4P025 (280x22mm - existing 15" fit kit as a reference) £439.75+vat, before 5% zoner discount
4P028 (298.5x24mm - best for wheel 16" clearance) £487.43+vat, before 5% zoner discount <<< EDIT 2 now looks like being £455.18+vat
4P144 (300x26mm cheap and heavy/duty 16" kit, great if you have room! ) £451.66+vat, before 5% zoner discount <<< EDIT 2 now looks like being £447.63+vat

[appletree]

Keri, do all the kits use the same caliper? think ive got the 284mm G60 version from you on mine. Could you do an "upgrade" kit, new carriers and dics?

ive got 16"s at the minute and dont need the spaces that you origonaly supplied to clear the back of the rim. so could probly run the 298 or 300mm kit

[keri-WMS]

Keri, do all the kits use the same caliper? think ive got the 284mm G60 version from you on mine. Could you do an "upgrade" kit, new carriers and dics?

ive got 16"s at the minute and dont need the spaces that you origonaly supplied to clear the back of the rim. so could probly run the 298 or 300mm kit

Hi Mat! Yup, same basic caliper (you do indeed have the G60 280x22 based disc) - although they would need rebuilding with wider caliper-spacers to fit the 24mm and 26mm wide 300mm discs.

Also I changed the spec very slightly for (late '09 and...) 2010-on to shorter pistons plus resulting changes in bracket offsets and width spacers: so what I would suggest to anyone upgrading from WMS 280mm > 300mm to be sure of a perfect fit is:

- I supply 300mm brackets, £TBC but in the region of £93.12+vat/pr including the threaded inserts.
- I supply 300mm discs, £TBC but in the region of £63.74+vat/pr for the 4P144 ones and £118.72+vat/pr for the deeper 4P028 ones! EDIT - 4P028 ones now look like being £91.26+vat/pr!
- If using the cheaper 4P144 disc you need 5.25mm standoffs, £TBC but maybe £19.20+vat/set, also longer M12 capheads are needed.
- I shorten your pistons for the shorter ones to meet the new "2010" spec, this is only £11.52+vat for the 8.
- I supply the longer caliper-assy bolts and wider caliper-spacers for 24mm or 26mm discs, £45.30+vat for two calipers.
- I supply 8 new piston seals, £14.21+vat for the 8.

All these prices are to be confirmed, and are for shiney CNC parts where possible....with luck I can cut some of the costs a bit.

In the meantime you could print out the two "beta" stage 300mm PDFs and see if either fit in your wheels?

[keri-WMS]

Well I got the prototype pair of the low-profile 4P028 discs back today, and the (batch price) machining was less than I predicted! So the kit and it's discs have a lower predicted RRP:

4P028 300x24mm WMS 4 pot kit = £#see page 1#+vat predicted
4P028 300x24mm replacement discs = £#see page 1#+vat/pr predicted

Can't wait for the first batch of brackets now (and therefore the final kit RRP!)!!!

[Theo]

What would be really good is if you did a 295(ish)x25(ish) 2 piece front setup to fit under 15" BBS. Please.

[keri-WMS]

What would be really good is if you did a 295(ish)x25(ish) 2 piece front setup to fit under 15" BBS. Please.

An "ultimate 15" BBS" kit is on the drawing board! 290mm+ rotor with a bigger caliper..........and "more features" but that would be telling!



Won't be cheap though, most people will still be best off with the 4P025 (280x22 G60 based one).

[Theo]

Meh, I'm not most people. Needs to have a 2 piece rotor IMO.

Can lend an M3 strut in exchange for a fat discount

[keri-WMS]

Meh, I'm not most people. Needs to have a 2 piece rotor IMO.

Can lend an M3 strut in exchange for a fat discount

Oh realy, like that is it matey!!!?

You may have a deal if your sexy track car has room for some nice big WMS stickers...

(Is there a detached M3 strut off your other car now then....?)

[Theo]

They're not off the car, but the car is on axles stands so I could have one off in a jiffy.

[keri-WMS]

They're not off the car, but the car is on axles stands so I could have one off in a jiffy.

Hmmm, sounds like a plan - I could pop round next week maybe? (up to my neck in VAT at the moment )

Drop me a PM!