How many guys on here take part in the Milltek series?
Editted title so reflect new name.
Production BMW Championship (was Milltek?)
Moderator: martauto
-
320Touring
- E30 Zone Team Member
- Posts: 12316
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Glasgow (Scotland)
Tsk! and there was you talking to a mod about it 
I'd be up for doing a few races this season, if I can find a decent track slag
I'd be up for doing a few races this season, if I can find a decent track slag
The big Unit Parts Clear out Make me an offer on parts!
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 81#2766881
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 81#2766881
No LSD'shoshy wrote:how do you guys find the speed and performance?
Are LSDs allowed?
what kind of tyres are required, is it a control tyre like the kumho?
This yr tyres are Toyo.
For full (draft 2006) regs look at http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=62820
straight line speeds are not that high but a well set up car corners pretty quickly - but as all cars are pretty evenly matched speed doesn't really matter.
If I were to enter, would the m40 be advantage, disadvantage or indifferent.
sorry to ask that question guys, but it's got to be done
I've already got a 2x318i e30s anyway so that's what I'll be using regardless, I was just wondering what you guys think.
sorry to ask that question guys, but it's got to be done
I've already got a 2x318i e30s anyway so that's what I'll be using regardless, I was just wondering what you guys think.
E46 M3 CSL but dreaming of another E30.
-
Brian28
- E30 Zone Squatter
- Posts: 1596
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Bournemouth
- Contact:
Very hard to call really. 320s had more wins last season, but there were more of them, Jez Clarke won in a 318, but he's an awesome pilot (with all due respect to everybody else) and could probably win races on a ride on lawnmower. But, the weight limit for 318s has been reduced this year, so they should be much more competitive and it'll be a really interesting season. Some twistier tracks (Pembrey, poss Brands Indy) will be better for 318s, some tracks (Snetterton) will be better for the gruntier 320s, and corners on individual tracks will suit one better than the other so should be really close racing and better than the usual one make series where the cars (if legal) are all identical so although there is close racing, sometimes very little overtaking. Yup, definitely looking forward to it 
. Within the mix, there is also different levels of experience and vastly different budgets and levels of car prep, so no matter how fast/slow you are there should be someone to race with. (That's what I'm hoping for anyway as I'll be one of the slow ones 
)
. Within the mix, there is also different levels of experience and vastly different budgets and levels of car prep, so no matter how fast/slow you are there should be someone to race with. (That's what I'm hoping for anyway as I'll be one of the slow ones )For sale - E30 320i racer project - sold.
cool. I like the fact that the weight limnit has been dropeed. wil have a proper read of the new draft regs tomorrow.
would you say that budget has a big impact on the quickness of the cars? Or is it just in terms of better brakes and suspension?
Am I allowed rear disk brake conversion?
Sorry for all the question guys. You help is much appreciated!
would you say that budget has a big impact on the quickness of the cars? Or is it just in terms of better brakes and suspension?
Am I allowed rear disk brake conversion?
Sorry for all the question guys. You help is much appreciated!
E46 M3 CSL but dreaming of another E30.
rear disk conversion is allowed, which is handy cos i have a 325 based rear end (!). On the basis that i tend to finish nearer the back than the front this apparently makes little difference. AFAIK i have the only car with rear discs up to end of 2005. However i am (obviously) not the fastest driver.
http://www.selocmotorsport.com/ some of the regulations can be found here but i think the latest 2006 regs are not published there yet. try the www.seloc.org website shown above. You'll need to register.
Budget does not necessarily have an impact on quickness of car - you could spend thousands paying someone to build it for you and look after it or do all the work yourself and be no different. The regs are deliberately written to prevent people spending more money to get quicker.
However there are a few areas where budget might impact, these are:
choice of suspension: budget is spax/avo/similar single adjustable dampers and spring set for around Ԛ£300 - 350 or the Leda/Gaz/somehting else again with single adjustable dampers plus coil over for Ԛ£700 to Ԛ£1200.
Also a choice to polybush or not i suppose these are around Ԛ£250 a set but bmw oem are too soft and a 15year old car will probably need all replacing anyway and polybush are a LOT easier to fit than the bmw oem bushes.
There are probably other areas with a cost choice but i can' think of any right now.
Another area cost/budget can affect is not speed of car but how many rounds you can afford to enter and travel to i.e. likelihood of points scoring.
To give you an idea of top speed (in a 320) you could expect to reach about 110 mph at the end of the Snetterton back straight and have to use 5th gear (welcome to no torque) for about 200m before braking for the left right corner - otherwise you would hit the limiter in 4th.
On Silverstone national, IIRC i didn't use 5th but got pretty close to the top of 4th before having to brake which i think is about 105 mph indicated. These aren't exact figures as the speedo needle shakes a bit at that speed and it helps to concentrate on the braking point...
http://www.selocmotorsport.com/ some of the regulations can be found here but i think the latest 2006 regs are not published there yet. try the www.seloc.org website shown above. You'll need to register.
Budget does not necessarily have an impact on quickness of car - you could spend thousands paying someone to build it for you and look after it or do all the work yourself and be no different. The regs are deliberately written to prevent people spending more money to get quicker.
However there are a few areas where budget might impact, these are:
choice of suspension: budget is spax/avo/similar single adjustable dampers and spring set for around Ԛ£300 - 350 or the Leda/Gaz/somehting else again with single adjustable dampers plus coil over for Ԛ£700 to Ԛ£1200.
Also a choice to polybush or not i suppose these are around Ԛ£250 a set but bmw oem are too soft and a 15year old car will probably need all replacing anyway and polybush are a LOT easier to fit than the bmw oem bushes.
There are probably other areas with a cost choice but i can' think of any right now.
Another area cost/budget can affect is not speed of car but how many rounds you can afford to enter and travel to i.e. likelihood of points scoring.
To give you an idea of top speed (in a 320) you could expect to reach about 110 mph at the end of the Snetterton back straight and have to use 5th gear (welcome to no torque) for about 200m before braking for the left right corner - otherwise you would hit the limiter in 4th.
On Silverstone national, IIRC i didn't use 5th but got pretty close to the top of 4th before having to brake which i think is about 105 mph indicated. These aren't exact figures as the speedo needle shakes a bit at that speed and it helps to concentrate on the braking point...
calder
cheers calder! some cool info there!
I have already joind the seloc forum so I can browse the regs etc.
I'm planning on the following:
318i w/ rear disks
poly bush all round
standard front disks (vented 325) but some kind of race pads
h&r cup kit suspension
running on 15inch bbs.
do they specify tyre sizes? I was hoping to run the smallest profile possible to glean some extra accel?
I have already joind the seloc forum so I can browse the regs etc.
I'm planning on the following:
318i w/ rear disks
poly bush all round
standard front disks (vented 325) but some kind of race pads
h&r cup kit suspension
running on 15inch bbs.
do they specify tyre sizes? I was hoping to run the smallest profile possible to glean some extra accel?
E46 M3 CSL but dreaming of another E30.
-
JimmyC
- E30 Zone Squatter
- Posts: 1537
- Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Southend ESSEX
- Contact:
Sounds like a good entry level route there mate. Have a good read through the seloc forums, and dont be shy to ask any questions!!
Whats you username over there, so we can keep our eyes peeled?
Poly bushes are a must, if you take that route then speak with Dave Mullendar he gets a full set of powerflex bushes for about Ԛ£100 if memory recalls.
BBS wheels are run by a few competitors, just make sure you have enough ducting to get some air into the brakes as the BBS are a faily closed wheel.
If you go for it drop me a mail as I have a some good deals sorted for competitors with cobra seats, GAZ shocks (custom build jobbies), and some others which I cant remember.
Whats the HR stuff like? any good, fully adjustable? just curios
Tyres are 195/50 toyo R888's
With regards to 318/320 debate this goes on alot on the forum, from recent testing at brands, I think the final conclusion was that a 320 is easier to get the times out of but a 318 is perfectly capable of them to if you know how to drive it- apparently different driving styles required
just doing a disc conversion on mine to at the mo!
Where you based??
Whats you username over there, so we can keep our eyes peeled?
Poly bushes are a must, if you take that route then speak with Dave Mullendar he gets a full set of powerflex bushes for about Ԛ£100 if memory recalls.
BBS wheels are run by a few competitors, just make sure you have enough ducting to get some air into the brakes as the BBS are a faily closed wheel.
If you go for it drop me a mail as I have a some good deals sorted for competitors with cobra seats, GAZ shocks (custom build jobbies), and some others which I cant remember.
Whats the HR stuff like? any good, fully adjustable? just curios
Tyres are 195/50 toyo R888's
With regards to 318/320 debate this goes on alot on the forum, from recent testing at brands, I think the final conclusion was that a 320 is easier to get the times out of but a 318 is perfectly capable of them to if you know how to drive it- apparently different driving styles required
just doing a disc conversion on mine to at the mo!
Where you based??
hoshy wrote:cheers calder! some cool info there!
I have already joind the seloc forum so I can browse the regs etc.
I'm planning on the following:
318i w/ rear disks
poly bush all round
standard front disks (vented 325) but some kind of race pads
h&r cup kit suspension
running on 15inch bbs.
do they specify tyre sizes? I was hoping to run the smallest profile possible to glean some extra accel?
I'm hoshy on seloc too haven't posted yet.
wow full set for under 100, sounds good to me!
I'm in Kingston but the car is in shrewsbury at my father's place. He's a mechanic with his own garage, so hopefully he can help my with some of the heavy stuff like brake conversion etc.
I'm planning on entering the last few races of the coming season, I need lots of time to get the money together and work on the car etc.
It will be a budget/entry level car but I've never raced more than go-karts before (club 100) so it will be cool just to get started.
195/50 sounds like a good choice. what sort of money are we looking at for a season of tyres? I hope I won't have to change every race due to budget, but how long can I stay competitive for on one set?
Any of you guys done wet races? I can imagine it's quite fun?
I decided to go for h&r cup kit becasue it's a very popular kit here. not adjustable though, so it it's not stiff enough then I may have to reconsider. I'm more than happy to take advice on suspension (and everything for that matter).
haven't posted yet.wow full set for under 100, sounds good to me!
I'm in Kingston but the car is in shrewsbury at my father's place. He's a mechanic with his own garage, so hopefully he can help my with some of the heavy stuff like brake conversion etc.
I'm planning on entering the last few races of the coming season, I need lots of time to get the money together and work on the car etc.
It will be a budget/entry level car but I've never raced more than go-karts before (club 100) so it will be cool just to get started.
195/50 sounds like a good choice. what sort of money are we looking at for a season of tyres? I hope I won't have to change every race due to budget, but how long can I stay competitive for on one set?
Any of you guys done wet races? I can imagine it's quite fun?
I decided to go for h&r cup kit becasue it's a very popular kit here. not adjustable though, so it it's not stiff enough then I may have to reconsider. I'm more than happy to take advice on suspension (and everything for that matter).
E46 M3 CSL but dreaming of another E30.
hi hoshy,
I bought a total of 6 kumho tyres last year and didn't use all of them.
the Toyos for this year are expected to be around Ԛ£75 each but the wear rate isn't yet known (i think). you would probably be ok to allow for buying 6 in a year and maybe not wearing out all of them.
Depends on how much you thrash them and do testing or trackdays. Trackdays can be hard on tyre wear as you could do typically 2 hours track time in a day whilst a race day would be a lot less e.g. 2 races + 2 x qually would be 1hr 20 mins max.
rear anti-roll bar - well its the same for everyone - not all the cars had them anyway?
lap times vary from track to track and depending on weather, rain can spread the times out, a short dry track will bunch them up. As a quick guide, a race at Lydden hill in July 05 the best race lap times were 51.354 to 53.420 across a field of 11 on a short dry cicuit - that also wasn't an official series race, hence the small grid.
try http://www.msttiming.com/ and look under BARC with last years calendar.
The top few cars will be within a couple of tenths if not hundreths in qually lap times.
I bought a total of 6 kumho tyres last year and didn't use all of them.
the Toyos for this year are expected to be around Ԛ£75 each but the wear rate isn't yet known (i think). you would probably be ok to allow for buying 6 in a year and maybe not wearing out all of them.
Depends on how much you thrash them and do testing or trackdays. Trackdays can be hard on tyre wear as you could do typically 2 hours track time in a day whilst a race day would be a lot less e.g. 2 races + 2 x qually would be 1hr 20 mins max.
rear anti-roll bar - well its the same for everyone - not all the cars had them anyway?
lap times vary from track to track and depending on weather, rain can spread the times out, a short dry track will bunch them up. As a quick guide, a race at Lydden hill in July 05 the best race lap times were 51.354 to 53.420 across a field of 11 on a short dry cicuit - that also wasn't an official series race, hence the small grid.
try http://www.msttiming.com/ and look under BARC with last years calendar.
The top few cars will be within a couple of tenths if not hundreths in qually lap times.
calder
Only just noticed this.
I'll put my hand up. I also write the regs!
The Toyos are more like Ԛ£55 each this year
I'd budget on 8 tyres per season but we don't know excactly how the Toyos will wear.
I managed 5 podiums, 1 pole and 1 fastest lap this year... in a 318... which is for sale
I'll put my hand up. I also write the regs!
The Toyos are more like Ԛ£55 each this year
I'd budget on 8 tyres per season but we don't know excactly how the Toyos will wear.
I managed 5 podiums, 1 pole and 1 fastest lap this year... in a 318... which is for sale
This is a most interesting thread, i have to say i joined up to the one where the regs are and it looks bloody good fun. No funds to do something like this for a few years but i'm definatly keeping my eye on it.
You must get this question all the time:
What sort of money could you enter a car in and say do three quarters or the years races? Now that is vague so hopefully this might help:
Forget the price of the car, m40's and m20's 2.0l can be picked up fairly cheap.
A cage whats the going price on that, i can weld it in so no fitament costs?
Bushes all round - Ԛ£100?
Stripping all the stuff off and selling and morsels( -100quid)
Tyres-8x Ԛ£60
Bucket seat with that lateral head restraint thing- Ԛ£???
Harnesses - Ԛ£70?
Ԛ£100-150 of safety featues, such as fire exting. cut off switch etc
Strut brace- Ԛ£50 if its allowed
Helmet- i allready have one for motocross but don't knwo if that meets regs.
What is the cost of entering races? I think the membership to the club is Ԛ£75 up from Ԛ£50 iirc, but thats nothing serious.
Do you think you could do it for under Ԛ£2500 bearing in mind no garages would get anywhere near the car. And would the car be competitive or do you need to spend upwards of 5G for that to happen(off the top of my head i can't imagine spending 5 grand on an m40 car but anythings possible i'm sure).
Also what engine mods are allowed, i think the throttle body is limited to standard but what about increasing compression and doing headwork, are there any limitations on that?
Hopefully everyone might benifit from answers to this post??
Jon
You must get this question all the time:
What sort of money could you enter a car in and say do three quarters or the years races? Now that is vague so hopefully this might help:
Forget the price of the car, m40's and m20's 2.0l can be picked up fairly cheap.
A cage whats the going price on that, i can weld it in so no fitament costs?
Bushes all round - Ԛ£100?
Stripping all the stuff off and selling and morsels( -100quid)
Tyres-8x Ԛ£60
Bucket seat with that lateral head restraint thing- Ԛ£???
Harnesses - Ԛ£70?
Ԛ£100-150 of safety featues, such as fire exting. cut off switch etc
Strut brace- Ԛ£50 if its allowed
Helmet- i allready have one for motocross but don't knwo if that meets regs.
What is the cost of entering races? I think the membership to the club is Ԛ£75 up from Ԛ£50 iirc, but thats nothing serious.
Do you think you could do it for under Ԛ£2500 bearing in mind no garages would get anywhere near the car. And would the car be competitive or do you need to spend upwards of 5G for that to happen(off the top of my head i can't imagine spending 5 grand on an m40 car but anythings possible i'm sure).
Also what engine mods are allowed, i think the throttle body is limited to standard but what about increasing compression and doing headwork, are there any limitations on that?
Hopefully everyone might benifit from answers to this post??
Jon
as far as I can see from the regs. no engine or ecu tweaks full stop.
you can do:
brakes
suspension
strut braces
lightening of car.
I'm planning on sorting my car for about 1 to 1.5k. I've already got the car and I'll have free profrssional help to fit the bits.
Do alot of guys drive their cars to and from the track? I know there are plenty of issues around doing it but it looked like one or two people did, after reading the seloc forum?
you can do:
brakes
suspension
strut braces
lightening of car.
I'm planning on sorting my car for about 1 to 1.5k. I've already got the car and I'll have free profrssional help to fit the bits.
Do alot of guys drive their cars to and from the track? I know there are plenty of issues around doing it but it looked like one or two people did, after reading the seloc forum?
E46 M3 CSL but dreaming of another E30.
- a small note on Liams post IIRC the Ԛ£55 is a one off offer that may have a limited life i.e. to mid 06, Ԛ£75 is the regular price, i stand to be corrected of course.
5 stud conversion is not permitted in the regs - but what would it gain?
Correct on engine and ECU - in sumamry only BMW parts for THAT engine allowed and work is only allowed within BMW service tolerances e.g. for skim and bore.
Cost: for car only Ԛ£2,500 is probably achievable if you have acces to garage facilities, tools and help for no cost. Buying your tools and buying labour obviously costs.
Race suit, boots, helmet, flameproof underwear will be additional, say Ԛ£500 to Ԛ£750.
Remember cost of ARDS test and medical say aruond Ԛ£250
Suspension: costs as above, but this doesn't include replacing old stock parts.
race fees havent been announced yet but typically Ԛ£150 to Ԛ£180 per race - depends on which circuit.
Remember to allow for transport/travel costs, diesel for towing, hire purchase of tow vehicle and trailer or jsut petrol if you drive the race car but then there's insurance, road tax and MOT.
Costs at circuit: bacon sandwiches and grease burgers - accomodation: tent or 5* hotel - take your choice?
5 stud conversion is not permitted in the regs - but what would it gain?
Correct on engine and ECU - in sumamry only BMW parts for THAT engine allowed and work is only allowed within BMW service tolerances e.g. for skim and bore.
Cost: for car only Ԛ£2,500 is probably achievable if you have acces to garage facilities, tools and help for no cost. Buying your tools and buying labour obviously costs.
Race suit, boots, helmet, flameproof underwear will be additional, say Ԛ£500 to Ԛ£750.
Remember cost of ARDS test and medical say aruond Ԛ£250
Suspension: costs as above, but this doesn't include replacing old stock parts.
race fees havent been announced yet but typically Ԛ£150 to Ԛ£180 per race - depends on which circuit.
Remember to allow for transport/travel costs, diesel for towing, hire purchase of tow vehicle and trailer or jsut petrol if you drive the race car but then there's insurance, road tax and MOT.
Costs at circuit: bacon sandwiches and grease burgers - accomodation: tent or 5* hotel - take your choice?
calder
The tyres are confirmed at Ԛ£49 each, good eh?
On engine work, there are strict limits for head skimming and overboring - it's all in the regs. Engines are power tested at each race meeting so any "naughtiness" will quickly be discovered.
I put together a spreadsheet of parts needed to build a new car. It came to Ԛ£4000-4500 depdending on a few things. But that included things like new control arms, 6 tyres, new radiator and all joints and bushes etc etc. Ԛ£3k is the minimum I would budget for getting a car to the first race.
On engine work, there are strict limits for head skimming and overboring - it's all in the regs. Engines are power tested at each race meeting so any "naughtiness" will quickly be discovered.
I put together a spreadsheet of parts needed to build a new car. It came to Ԛ£4000-4500 depdending on a few things. But that included things like new control arms, 6 tyres, new radiator and all joints and bushes etc etc. Ԛ£3k is the minimum I would budget for getting a car to the first race.
-
JimmyC
- E30 Zone Squatter
- Posts: 1537
- Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Southend ESSEX
- Contact:
I'll be driving to the races next year, and hopefully home from most!!!
If you are looking at a real tight budget i'd drop brian28 an email as from meeting and speaking with him, he and his brother are prepparing 2 very cost effective cars.
There are other things you forget about like the Ԛ£200 odd quid for the timing transmitter thingy (tech I know!!)
I must say I started looking at a sub Ԛ£3k build but have probably hit closer to Ԛ£4k but it will be a very high spec car, definately one of the safest out there due to the full on cage I have gone for. Its also going to be one of the stiffest out there due to this. I started off with the i'll get a cheap cage, cheap seat mentality then after speaking with the likes of liam and seeing that massive khumho crash at Mallory thought an extra Ԛ£1k on safety isn't really that much when its your life your talking about.
It should also be a strong performing car as I have splashed out on suspension etc and stripped the car back to shell and fully rebuilt (or will be). Only weakness in the package will be the driver
Anyway point to my ramblings, you can spend as little or as much as you like and no matter where you end up across that spectrum the racing will still be close and good and down to the driver primarily- due to the very consise regs that Liam must have spent ages sorting
If you are looking at a real tight budget i'd drop brian28 an email as from meeting and speaking with him, he and his brother are prepparing 2 very cost effective cars.
There are other things you forget about like the Ԛ£200 odd quid for the timing transmitter thingy (tech I know!!)
I must say I started looking at a sub Ԛ£3k build but have probably hit closer to Ԛ£4k but it will be a very high spec car, definately one of the safest out there due to the full on cage I have gone for. Its also going to be one of the stiffest out there due to this. I started off with the i'll get a cheap cage, cheap seat mentality then after speaking with the likes of liam and seeing that massive khumho crash at Mallory thought an extra Ԛ£1k on safety isn't really that much when its your life your talking about.
It should also be a strong performing car as I have splashed out on suspension etc and stripped the car back to shell and fully rebuilt (or will be). Only weakness in the package will be the driver
Anyway point to my ramblings, you can spend as little or as much as you like and no matter where you end up across that spectrum the racing will still be close and good and down to the driver primarily- due to the very consise regs that Liam must have spent ages sorting
got to agree I wasn't up for skimping on the roll cage. I believe that a fully welded cage is best?
as for the rest of the car, I can deal with old parts as upgrades over time... not the most cost effective, but enough to get me racing.
don't want to skimp on brakes, tyres, cage, seat an general upkeep
as for the rest of the car, I can deal with old parts as upgrades over time... not the most cost effective, but enough to get me racing.
don't want to skimp on brakes, tyres, cage, seat an general upkeep
E46 M3 CSL but dreaming of another E30.
That Mallory crash was scary and he was very liucky to walk away, albeit 6 teeth down (he swallowed them!!), the cage is the most important part of the car and you should never skimp on this. Then the suspension, brakes, and always buy the best you can afford, and then spend anything left on tuition and leave the engine to the end, preparation is the key to all this
please contact admin with regard to sig
He was under severe pressure from my driver coming out of Gerrards and just got sideways on the exit, 2 wheels on the grass which catapulted him across the track at a 45deg angle and into the tyre barriers, the datalogger showed the impact at 90mph and the car flew 8ft in the air on impact, bloody scary stuff! 
please contact admin with regard to sig