3.6 or 3.8 M5
Moderator: martauto
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Davenotouring
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The 3.8 is 340bhp, and has the 'Nurburgring' adjustable suspension. Very expensive for replacements of original equipment. The engine is slightly more fragile apparently too.
The 3.6 is 315bhp and 'rock-solid', although my mate 3.6 lost oil pressure and quickly expired, so you never know!
Hope this helps and gets you started.
The 3.6 is 315bhp and 'rock-solid', although my mate 3.6 lost oil pressure and quickly expired, so you never know!
Hope this helps and gets you started.
Nissan 200SX S14a - Track Slag
BMW 328i Cab - Daily Slag
i like the 3.8 personally, never been in one, but the idea of 6 seperate throttle bodies and coil packs for each cylinder is insane, it's like 6 little engines all in harmony producing massive power, i have also heard the 3.6 is a tougher engine too, can anyone tell me why? maybe it's because you have less webbing between the cylinder, to get the 3.6 to 3.8 BMW Motorsport bored the cylinders so they are wider, and so you only have 5mm of metal between each cylinder, which isn't a lot considering the heat and forces generated to produce 340bhp!
oooh i like hydraulic suspension, i've got it on my Xantia, and it works 100%, doesn't cost that much, spheres are £20 each from GSF, and when they do the work of springing and damping then it's VERY cheap compared to the costs of buying a spring and damper seperately.
i know on an M5 it's there to de/compress the damper for stiffer springing rate, but it's such a basic idea, i REALLY have no idea why people are so scared of such an idea, they are SO simple and SO cheap and work better than springs both in comfort and roadhandling. You gotta just read a bit about them and you'll see what your missing.
oooh i like hydraulic suspension, i've got it on my Xantia, and it works 100%, doesn't cost that much, spheres are £20 each from GSF, and when they do the work of springing and damping then it's VERY cheap compared to the costs of buying a spring and damper seperately.
i know on an M5 it's there to de/compress the damper for stiffer springing rate, but it's such a basic idea, i REALLY have no idea why people are so scared of such an idea, they are SO simple and SO cheap and work better than springs both in comfort and roadhandling. You gotta just read a bit about them and you'll see what your missing.
I know the system your Citroen uses, I could be wrong but I dont think the M5 works like that. I think its a bit more complex. You are probably right about the engine's. They probably just bored out the 3.6. Most manufacturers do that, its cheaper.
maybe the bmw's one is all hydraulic, but i can certainly promise you the ones on the citroens are VERY complex, most use a computer to control a comfort sphere based on speed, acceleration, pedal movements, steering speed, steering angle, body roll, deceleration, and have all sorts of weird valves all over, my car has the hydraulic fluid controling the suspension, brakes, steering and clutch as well as a switchable sports mode on the dash 
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Davenotouring
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The Citroen uses a different system completely, it doesn't have shocks and springs as far as I know. It is literally a hydraulic system.
The Bmw just has adaptable dampers depending on what setting they are on. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The Bmw just has adaptable dampers depending on what setting they are on. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Nissan 200SX S14a - Track Slag
BMW 328i Cab - Daily Slag
err. the m5 suspension is entirely different to the citroen stuff. £20 for citroen spheres is all very nice, but the adjustable m5 dampers are around £500 each from the dealer. And they are not that much cheaper anywhere else. Although you can revert it to normal dampers (like the 3.6) if you're really strapped for cash. But then you will have to change all of the dampers and springs in one go.
FWIW there's not much difference in the 3.6 and 3.8. I've been in both quite a few times. The 3.8 is more costly to maintain though. personally I'd be inclined to get a good 3.6 and have fun. 3.8's are nicer and more desirable, but you'll need deep(er) pockets.
FWIW there's not much difference in the 3.6 and 3.8. I've been in both quite a few times. The 3.8 is more costly to maintain though. personally I'd be inclined to get a good 3.6 and have fun. 3.8's are nicer and more desirable, but you'll need deep(er) pockets.
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stuartgallafant
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deian, can you check your PM inbox mate
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Dan318-is
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Dude if looked after iv heard the 3.8 is actually stronger! its a completely different machine and i would have one anyday over a 3.6, although i obv wouldnt say no to one of them eitherbmpaul wrote:3.6 will be less troublesome- cant really compare citroen and bmw suspension and as we know bm prices are not the cheapest at the best of times!!!!!
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miniblob
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I would go for the 3.8 anyday!!
Have heard that the 3.6 can be cheaper to run though - but i don't care about practical stuff like that!!
Have heard that the 3.6 can be cheaper to run though - but i don't care about practical stuff like that!!
327 Touring with bass!!!
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3.6s aren't properly fast, although it depends what you're comparing them too. Compared to 90% of the cars on the road you'll make them look very silly. An e30 325i for instance would disappear in the M5s automatic dipping rear view mirror like it still had the handbrake on. At about 130 when the e30 is starting to gasp the M5 would be hitting the powerband in top and you'd get to see the speedo point to 140, 150, 160, 170 in what seems like a not very long time at all. So not crazy fast nowadays but what other handbuilt saloons can you buy for £2k - £4k that will headbutt 170 in utter comfort and still allow you to pimp down to the shops in luxury?
My last 3.6 would bum e36 M3 Evos and wipe its cock on the curtains before telling the e36 to get the breakfast on.
3.8s are obviously faster, although in isolation you aren't going to be annoyed you paid half price for 9/10ths of the car.
My last 3.6 would bum e36 M3 Evos and wipe its cock on the curtains before telling the e36 to get the breakfast on.
3.8s are obviously faster, although in isolation you aren't going to be annoyed you paid half price for 9/10ths of the car.
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Fushion_Julz
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The real problem with 3.8 M5s is that most came with 6 speed boxes and they ARE more fragile than the 5-speeds...
3.6s all had 5 speeds and standard dampers/springs...
early 3.8s had 5 speed boxes and EDC was an option
later 3.8s had 6 speed boxes and EDC was fitted to almost everyone although I believe officially an option.
3.8 is faster...but both are true super saloons and real Q-cars in that, wheels apart, it is hard to tell them from a standard 535/540.
A 3.6 M5 is faster than a standard 540i..even a manual one, but not a lot. What is certainly better is the handling..the M engine is lighter thean the V8 and revs better, too, on throttle bodies.
Seeing that you can get a 3.6 M5 in decent condition with history (important unless you're prepared for BIG bills) for <£5K and a 540 manual is like rocking horse shit and likely to cost about the same, I'd stick with the M5...They are at the bottom of their price bracket about now...Can only go up in value as a proper classic car and the last hand-built M car...
3.6s all had 5 speeds and standard dampers/springs...
early 3.8s had 5 speed boxes and EDC was an option
later 3.8s had 6 speed boxes and EDC was fitted to almost everyone although I believe officially an option.
3.8 is faster...but both are true super saloons and real Q-cars in that, wheels apart, it is hard to tell them from a standard 535/540.
A 3.6 M5 is faster than a standard 540i..even a manual one, but not a lot. What is certainly better is the handling..the M engine is lighter thean the V8 and revs better, too, on throttle bodies.
Seeing that you can get a 3.6 M5 in decent condition with history (important unless you're prepared for BIG bills) for <£5K and a 540 manual is like rocking horse shit and likely to cost about the same, I'd stick with the M5...They are at the bottom of their price bracket about now...Can only go up in value as a proper classic car and the last hand-built M car...
1987 Henna Rot M3 (was 195bhp CAT..now more and no cat)
2001 E46 330i SE Touring (manual)
2001 E46 330i SE Touring (manual)
This one's even got LP f'kin' G
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1994-BMW-M5-3-8-4 ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1994-BMW-M5-3-8-4 ... dZViewItem
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Demlotcrew
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3.8 any day!
All 3.8's had EDC even if the button was not present in the dash.
3.8's are not more fragile than a 3.6 thats just total bull.
Stretch your money and buy a 3.8 with four pot brakes and six speed with a fith door
Andrew
All 3.8's had EDC even if the button was not present in the dash.
3.8's are not more fragile than a 3.6 thats just total bull.
Stretch your money and buy a 3.8 with four pot brakes and six speed with a fith door
Andrew
sorryDemlotcrew wrote:3.8 any day!
All 3.8's had EDC even if the button was not present in the dash.
3.8's are not more fragile than a 3.6 thats just total bull.
Stretch your money and buy a 3.8 with four pot brakes and six speed with a fith door
Andrew
what's a fith door?
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Andy335Touring
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Touringtoby wrote: sorry
what's a fith door?
I am such a greedy bastard I have both!
They are both superb machines and even a 3.6 will see off even the best 2.7's once over 60mph. Handling and balance is bloody excellent for such a lardy car.
3.8's: 6 speed manual with 4 pots and 18" Parallel wheels only came from 1994 onwards with the wider grill. 6 Speed Manual is ok. ALL 3.8's had EDC dampers, later ones had the button to keep it in permanent sport mode but this can be fitted to any EDC equiped car as many M5 owners are now finding.
The EDC system when working properly is brilliant and well worth keeping. EDC dampers do not need to be replaced in axle pairs either. You can put it in S mode and the ride gets very firm, firmer than an E30 with a Cup kit! Car just sticks to the road and has huge grip.
Removing the EDC seriously devalues the car. Don't buy one if you can't afford to change the EDC dampers.
The 3.8 is MUCH gruniter low down than the 3.6 and top end pulls alot harder. It's like the difference between a standard 2.5 and a very good 2.7. The 3.6 really needs to be wound up hard to get the best out of it and it's a real screamer of an engine. An absolute hoot to drive.
3.8 is more powerful everywhere ESPECIALLY over 100mph by which time a 3.8 will be a few car lengths infront. A 3.6 feels fast once revved up, the 3.8 just feels fast everywhere.
I used to think the 3.6 was stronger than the 3.8 but found this is total cack. Both units will fail if abused. These cars need proper warming up and many owners cane them from cold which drastically reduces engine life. They take a long time to warm up!
The late 3.8's are the best by far and there is a huge premium to pay for them. The 6 spped box has superb ratios and can sit on the motorway at 100mph at just under 3500rpm. The bigger 4 pot brakes are way superior to the standard brakes. You get a massive floating 345mm disk up front. The braking power is simply awesome as I found at Oulton Park even with standard pads.
3.8 Tourings are extremely desirable in any form but the best ones again are the late ones - which are seriously expensive to purchase and are very rare. All LHD.
3.8's respond extremely well to modifications aswell. A few members of M5board.com has fitted Schrick cams and had remaps and hitting 365bhp. My own 3.8 has had a remap and the difference that made was quite substantial.
Now here's the best bit! Fuel economy and Insurance. Classic policy costs less than an E30 Sport.
Fuel economy is no worse than a 325i (it's better really) as long as the MAF and Lambda sensor are working properly. On a run, with a 6 sped box and it's matching 3.23:1 final drive the 3.8's give around 32mph average.
Oh, and the noise! Automotive Porn. People who have moved to E39 M5's after owning an E34 miss the noise and handling the most (+ the better build quality)
Buy one in Avus Blue and everyone knows it's an M5. At lights or in traffic I get so many people staring at the front brakes.
As for 540i 6 speed manual vs 3.6/3.8 - no contest. Where's the revs?? The 3.8 has massive low end torque and it's a 7250rpm screamer too.
The only complaint I have about them is crap steering boxes. Luckily my 3.8 Servotronic box is still very tight.
Comparing the 3.8 to more modern cars:
3.6 vs ZM Coupe - ZM starts pulling away gently in every gear.
3.8 vs ZM - nothing in it
The ZM is alot faster than most people think! They are quicker than 3.2 Evo's.
Alpina B10 V8 vs 3.8 - nothing in it
E39 M5 vs 3.8 (in the dry) - E39 M5 only gently pulls once getting into the nether regions of the speedo
E39 M5 vs 3.8 (in the wet) - Take one look at the back end of the E39 because that's the last you'll see of it.
E60 M5 vs 3.8 - 3.8 owner should have more sense because his penis will shrink very fast after the traumatic beating he will get.
E55 AMG (New one) - 3.8 owner should have more sense because his penis will shrink very fast after the traumatic battering he will get.
3.8 vs Honda Civic Type R (they always have a go) - You can start behind one at the lights, the Type R can get the better start, you'll pass it just as you get into 3rd gear and leave it for dead.
3.8 vs Honda S2000 - 3.8 owner will slow down just so that he can hear the most awesome induction roar of the S2000.
Not so modern
3.6 vs E30 325i with 180bhp - E30 owner will need good eyes to see the number plate for long
3.8 vs E30 325i with 180bhp - E30 Owner will need binoculars.
3.6 vs Alpina C2 with MBE and Cam - Off the lights the Alpina is superior, but after 70mph the 3.6 will start leaving it for dead.
E34 535i vs 3.8 - 3.8 would have done 4 gear changes by the time the 535i has done 2.
E30 m3 215bhp vs 3.8 - By the time an m3 gets to 110, a 3.8 is doing 145mph.
On the track: (assuming you can drive and have excellent tyres)
Makes mince meat of TVR's except the newer bastard fast ones.
Will be on par with a good 240bhp E30 M3. Round the bends M3 will catch up and then be left on the straights.
3.8 vs Porsche GT3 Race car - do it just to hear the GT3 go past and make insane noise. Don't even try and keep up because your penis will disappear.
Sorry for writing such a long reply......I just happen to have alot of fun with m5's!
Sal
They are both superb machines and even a 3.6 will see off even the best 2.7's once over 60mph. Handling and balance is bloody excellent for such a lardy car.
3.8's: 6 speed manual with 4 pots and 18" Parallel wheels only came from 1994 onwards with the wider grill. 6 Speed Manual is ok. ALL 3.8's had EDC dampers, later ones had the button to keep it in permanent sport mode but this can be fitted to any EDC equiped car as many M5 owners are now finding.
The EDC system when working properly is brilliant and well worth keeping. EDC dampers do not need to be replaced in axle pairs either. You can put it in S mode and the ride gets very firm, firmer than an E30 with a Cup kit! Car just sticks to the road and has huge grip.
Removing the EDC seriously devalues the car. Don't buy one if you can't afford to change the EDC dampers.
The 3.8 is MUCH gruniter low down than the 3.6 and top end pulls alot harder. It's like the difference between a standard 2.5 and a very good 2.7. The 3.6 really needs to be wound up hard to get the best out of it and it's a real screamer of an engine. An absolute hoot to drive.
3.8 is more powerful everywhere ESPECIALLY over 100mph by which time a 3.8 will be a few car lengths infront. A 3.6 feels fast once revved up, the 3.8 just feels fast everywhere.
I used to think the 3.6 was stronger than the 3.8 but found this is total cack. Both units will fail if abused. These cars need proper warming up and many owners cane them from cold which drastically reduces engine life. They take a long time to warm up!
The late 3.8's are the best by far and there is a huge premium to pay for them. The 6 spped box has superb ratios and can sit on the motorway at 100mph at just under 3500rpm. The bigger 4 pot brakes are way superior to the standard brakes. You get a massive floating 345mm disk up front. The braking power is simply awesome as I found at Oulton Park even with standard pads.
3.8 Tourings are extremely desirable in any form but the best ones again are the late ones - which are seriously expensive to purchase and are very rare. All LHD.
3.8's respond extremely well to modifications aswell. A few members of M5board.com has fitted Schrick cams and had remaps and hitting 365bhp. My own 3.8 has had a remap and the difference that made was quite substantial.
Now here's the best bit! Fuel economy and Insurance. Classic policy costs less than an E30 Sport.
Fuel economy is no worse than a 325i (it's better really) as long as the MAF and Lambda sensor are working properly. On a run, with a 6 sped box and it's matching 3.23:1 final drive the 3.8's give around 32mph average.
Oh, and the noise! Automotive Porn. People who have moved to E39 M5's after owning an E34 miss the noise and handling the most (+ the better build quality)
Buy one in Avus Blue and everyone knows it's an M5. At lights or in traffic I get so many people staring at the front brakes.
As for 540i 6 speed manual vs 3.6/3.8 - no contest. Where's the revs?? The 3.8 has massive low end torque and it's a 7250rpm screamer too.
The only complaint I have about them is crap steering boxes. Luckily my 3.8 Servotronic box is still very tight.
Comparing the 3.8 to more modern cars:
3.6 vs ZM Coupe - ZM starts pulling away gently in every gear.
3.8 vs ZM - nothing in it
The ZM is alot faster than most people think! They are quicker than 3.2 Evo's.
Alpina B10 V8 vs 3.8 - nothing in it
E39 M5 vs 3.8 (in the dry) - E39 M5 only gently pulls once getting into the nether regions of the speedo
E39 M5 vs 3.8 (in the wet) - Take one look at the back end of the E39 because that's the last you'll see of it.
E60 M5 vs 3.8 - 3.8 owner should have more sense because his penis will shrink very fast after the traumatic beating he will get.
E55 AMG (New one) - 3.8 owner should have more sense because his penis will shrink very fast after the traumatic battering he will get.
3.8 vs Honda Civic Type R (they always have a go) - You can start behind one at the lights, the Type R can get the better start, you'll pass it just as you get into 3rd gear and leave it for dead.
3.8 vs Honda S2000 - 3.8 owner will slow down just so that he can hear the most awesome induction roar of the S2000.
Not so modern
3.6 vs E30 325i with 180bhp - E30 owner will need good eyes to see the number plate for long
3.8 vs E30 325i with 180bhp - E30 Owner will need binoculars.
3.6 vs Alpina C2 with MBE and Cam - Off the lights the Alpina is superior, but after 70mph the 3.6 will start leaving it for dead.
E34 535i vs 3.8 - 3.8 would have done 4 gear changes by the time the 535i has done 2.
E30 m3 215bhp vs 3.8 - By the time an m3 gets to 110, a 3.8 is doing 145mph.
On the track: (assuming you can drive and have excellent tyres)
Makes mince meat of TVR's except the newer bastard fast ones.
Will be on par with a good 240bhp E30 M3. Round the bends M3 will catch up and then be left on the straights.
3.8 vs Porsche GT3 Race car - do it just to hear the GT3 go past and make insane noise. Don't even try and keep up because your penis will disappear.
Sorry for writing such a long reply......I just happen to have alot of fun with m5's!
Sal
that made me laugh!-
Ziggy
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Running costs - I know petrol's similar to a 325i, & insurance isn't that far off. But for someone who maintains a 325i themself, how much extra is it going to cost to look after either a 3.6 or 3.8 m5 (or a 540i manual)? Is there anything you'd do yourself, or is the SH all important? Costs per service or per year would be useful!
Also, how much are parts? I know about the EDC dampers, but what's everything else like (compared to a 325i if you like!)? 2nd hand availability? Cost of a gearbox / engine (god forbid!) if it does all go tits up?
If you could find one, how much would you pay for either model (or a 540i manual)? Not minty mint, but not a liability!
I'm not sure if I could bring myself to sell the cab, but I've had it longer than any other car I've owned & I've been thinking about an m5 (probably a 3.6 to start with) for a while now...
Also, how much are parts? I know about the EDC dampers, but what's everything else like (compared to a 325i if you like!)? 2nd hand availability? Cost of a gearbox / engine (god forbid!) if it does all go tits up?
If you could find one, how much would you pay for either model (or a 540i manual)? Not minty mint, but not a liability!
I'm not sure if I could bring myself to sell the cab, but I've had it longer than any other car I've owned & I've been thinking about an m5 (probably a 3.6 to start with) for a while now...
E30 in need of wiring loom smoke since April '11...
Parts can be more expensive. Small things like Spark plugs, Coils (on 3.
, Distributer caps, rotor arms etc etc.
Alot of the stuff is just standard E34 stuff so it's not expensive.
Working them is a little harder than an E30 but nothing major.
The exhaust is bloody heavy!
I would avoid a 540i personally.
Sal
, Distributer caps, rotor arms etc etc.Alot of the stuff is just standard E34 stuff so it's not expensive.
Working them is a little harder than an E30 but nothing major.
The exhaust is bloody heavy!
I would avoid a 540i personally.
Sal
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Fushion_Julz
- E30 Zone Camper
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I've seen useable 3.6 M5s with some history for around £4k in fair condition...A decent one with lowish miles and FSH probably £5k upIf you could find one, how much would you pay for either model (or a 540i manual)? Not minty mint, but not a liability!
3.8s from £6k for the saloon upto £12k+ for the LEs and Tourings start at £8k
You could pick up a 540 auto for around £3k, I reckon...but a manual would be hard to find and probably command a bit of a premium on the price just fro being so scarce!
Remember early V8s suffered from Nikasil problems, too!
1987 Henna Rot M3 (was 195bhp CAT..now more and no cat)
2001 E46 330i SE Touring (manual)
2001 E46 330i SE Touring (manual)
540i is a time bomb.
3.6 M5 much better as a proper drivers car.
Someone can buy my 3.6 for £2250 - needs bodywork attention though- just panels need sorting out and a new rear screen.
Sal
3.6 M5 much better as a proper drivers car.
Someone can buy my 3.6 for £2250 - needs bodywork attention though- just panels need sorting out and a new rear screen.
Sal
Just be more specific and admit it - you liked the Penis shrinking part ennit!
You'll be reading that bit over and over again at 4am .... I know your sort!
Sal
You'll be reading that bit over and over again at 4am .... I know your sort!
Sal
I will make your penis Shrink in my 3.8! Well I will try anyway.
Sal
Sal
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Ziggy
- E30 Zone Team Member
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Thank fcuk I've not got £2250 burning a hole in my pocket - a couple of months ago I'd have just bought it & then I'd have been in serious trouble about not being able to afford to go on holiday with the Mrs!!M5pilot wrote: Someone can buy my 3.6 for £2250 - needs bodywork attention though- just panels need sorting out and a new rear screen.
E30 in need of wiring loom smoke since April '11...