Changing a starter on a M5 V10

[Rav335uk]

Was reading this over on the E30forum,
Easy to say the least.

"You should try changing the spark plugs in a e60m5 , or a 645i its great crack .
But not nearly as much fun as replacing the starter in the e60 m5 .
For those that dont know its a v10, now where do you think they might hide the starter , yes you guessed it , under the plenum !

So you remove the plenum , with 10 hidden jubilee clips holding it to the throttle bodys , and the air boxs ,, and the numerous other little hoses attached to the plenum with "quick connectors " sure they are quick connections when you can actually get to them , any way plenum off and you are greeted with a large plastic box that contains the wiring harness and runs the full lenght of the valley so you cant get near the starter , so just move the wiring harness right , WRONG there is no slack on ANY connections , so you have to unplug all the vanos , knock sensors throttle actuators ect ect
then you can take out the starter right !WRONG !!

You have to remove the idle control valve ,so now you can remove the starter , well you could if you could get to the bolts ,
so up in the air with the car and remove the exhaust system from the manifolds back , remove all the under tray ( with the eight million bolts and clips ) remove the prop shaft remove the gearbox mount and let the engine and box angle down , then get you ten foot extension bar to reach the two main bolts holding the starter and remove them , then drop the car back down and remove the little allen kew bolt thats hidden from view .

Now you can remove the pittful excuse for a starter , I swear its like something you would see on a little jap yoke ."

[Cypriotgeeza]

God help us mechanics with the next wave of cars!

Hate it when my boss says "well autodata says it should take....long"

Yea thats prob with an expert of that car with brand new parts to undo and plenty of know-how!

Dont understand why they are making everything more and more complicated!

[Rav335uk]

That's got to be thw worst place to put a starter motor, but on the hother hand, a WIN WIN for BMW

[Cypriotgeeza]

That's got to be thw worst place to put a starter motor, but on the hother hand, a WIN WIN for BMW

Thats all it is these days Rav man..either a normal garage is going to take a hell of a long time and alot of swearing to get it done

= high labour costs

or your going to take it to BMW and they will get it done in half the time

=Still high labour costs

=Poor car owners lol thinking about it if you can afford an M5 maybe the cost to repair it is nothing to them

[Rav335uk]

True, but that is the price of having a V10.

[Cypriotgeeza]

True, but that is the price of having a V10.

My boss has just bought an E39 M5..got it remapped at Evolve and now it runs so good! Gorgeous looking thing..i have to get some pics and post them up soon

[Andyboy]

Dont understand why they are making everything more and more complicated!

In most cases, it's a combination of cramming in all the latest crap, and a will to make the car unfixable.
In the case of the V10 M5, it was a technological 'look what we can do!" showcase at the time. Now it's a rapidly depreciating 11 mpg millstone, waiting to bury some poor sod when it shits itself. To be fair, there are plenty of cars with nightmare starter notors. The Citroen CX2400 diesel is one, the V12 Jaguar another. The M42 starter is no picnic either.

[Rav335uk]

That's why I love the older cars to work on Andy. loads of space.
M30 starter is half an hour
I've heard about the Jag V12 too

[bss325i]

Dont understand why they are making everything more and more complicated!

In most cases, it's a combination of cramming in all the latest crap, and a will to make the car unfixable.
In the case of the V10 M5, it was a technological 'look what we can do!" showcase at the time. Now it's a rapidly depreciating 11 mpg millstone, waiting to bury some poor sod when it shits itself. To be fair, there are plenty of cars with nightmare starter notors. The Citroen CX2400 diesel is one, the V12 Jaguar another. The M42 starter is no picnic either.

Renault traffic with the 2.0TD engine, front panel off.

Rav, that description on the M5 started sounds to long winded.

I have never done one but i could check the repair instructions to see if its anything like that.

[bss325i]

N5x, M5x, N42 all need the inlet manifold removed to change the starter.

[Rav335uk]

Barry, that is from a trusted forum member from the irish forum, he's done one and wrote it up.
I just copied and pasted for all to see.

[Cypriotgeeza]

Dont understand why they are making everything more and more complicated!

In most cases, it's a combination of cramming in all the latest crap, and a will to make the car unfixable.
In the case of the V10 M5, it was a technological 'look what we can do!" showcase at the time. Now it's a rapidly depreciating 11 mpg millstone, waiting to bury some poor sod when it shits itself. To be fair, there are plenty of cars with nightmare starter notors. The Citroen CX2400 diesel is one, the V12 Jaguar another. The M42 starter is no picnic either.

i totally agree with the "unfixable" part..another reason why we are turning into a throwaway society!

Im always trying to fix things instead of just throwing them away and getting another one..irritates my boss at times tho lol

[Andyboy]

Dont understand why they are making everything more and more complicated!

In most cases, it's a combination of cramming in all the latest crap, and a will to make the car unfixable.
In the case of the V10 M5, it was a technological 'look what we can do!" showcase at the time. Now it's a rapidly depreciating 11 mpg millstone, waiting to bury some poor sod when it shits itself. To be fair, there are plenty of cars with nightmare starter notors. The Citroen CX2400 diesel is one, the V12 Jaguar another. The M42 starter is no picnic either.

Renault traffic with the 2.0TD engine, front panel off.

Rav, that description on the M5 started sounds to long winded.

I have never done one but i could check the repair instructions to see if its anything like that.

Whilst you're there, check out the repair instructions for the steel coolant pipe that runs in the V on an E65 735i/745i. About 2 days work in total. Engine out, head and sump off, front timing case and finally the pipe. Replace two 30p O rings, and reassemble. A mere £3000 in labour with VAT.

[Rav335uk]

[Andyboy]

That's nothing for an E65! Wait till the gearbox electronics start playing up. And these shitheaps are now 10 year old technology!

[bss325i]

That's nothing for an E65! Wait till the gearbox electronics start playing up. And these shitheaps are now 10 year old technology!

Andy, i have been saying this for a while now.

All these E70's, E65's E60's etc etc when old and not worth a great deal will end up in frag yards because they will be uneconomical to repair.

Try 2 bags for an E53 panormamic sunroof assembly.

[Cypriotgeeza]

That's nothing for an E65! Wait till the gearbox electronics start playing up. And these shitheaps are now 10 year old technology!

Andy, i have been saying this for a while now.

All these E70's, E65's E60's etc etc when old and not worth a great deal will end up in frag yards because they will be uneconomical to repair.

Try 2 bags for an E53 panormamic sunroof assembly.

Modern cars...who needs em?

[e30topless]

this thread is exactly the reason I run 20 year old BMW's !

[Cypriotgeeza]

this thread is exactly the reason I run 20 year old BMW's !

+1!

[bss325i]

I had to change a turbo on a 335i the other day. It was either engine out or front subframe off.

Needless to say i took the latter.

Luckily it was the rear turbo. If it was the front turbo then the electric water pump and thermostat would have had to come off.

[Cypriotgeeza]

I had to change a turbo on a 335i the other day. It was either engine out or front subframe off.

Needless to say i took the latter.

Luckily it was the rear turbo. If it was the front turbo then the electric water pump and thermostat would have had to come off.

My other boss has a 335i twin turbo now..has been at BMW for the recall item (high pressure fuel pump i think) didnt even know there was a recall out on these

Hope i dont have to do a turbo anytime soon lol

[e30topless]

newer cars just seem to be way over complex without any future repairs in mind when developing them,

I sadly got involved in changing a headlight on a 2 year old astra last week almost all of the front end had to come off ! very sad.... took most of a morning up to remove 3 screws and swap it for a new one..

[Andyboy]

I think that anyone with a really decent uptogether pre 1993 BMW/Merc/VW in 10 years time is going to be laughing.

Scenario 1: "I'm sorry Sir, but your 118d has just shat it's DPF/snapped its timing chain/needs a decoke. It's going to cost £3000 to fix it.

Scenario 2. "Oh arse. Pizza Shack hasn't got any used chip oil until next week. I'm going to have to buy some pump diesel for me K reg Golf Umwelt. Five bloody quid to put the light out!".

[Cypriotgeeza]

newer cars just seem to be way over complex without any future repairs in mind when developing them,

I sadly got involved in changing a headlight on a 2 year old astra last week almost all of the front end had to come off ! very sad.... took most of a morning up to remove 3 screws and swap it for a new one..

Ive said this so much when working on modern cars..even something which Should take 10mins end up taking an hour or two!

I jus wonder the more advanced the engineering gets the more common sense is going out the window!

[bss325i]

I had to change a turbo on a 335i the other day. It was either engine out or front subframe off.

Needless to say i took the latter.

Luckily it was the rear turbo. If it was the front turbo then the electric water pump and thermostat would have had to come off.

My other boss has a 335i twin turbo now..has been at BMW for the recall item (high pressure fuel pump i think) didnt even know there was a recall out on these

Hope i dont have to do a turbo anytime soon lol

Yes there is a QEP (quality enhancement program) for high pressure pumps on some N5x engines.

I've done a few, inlet off.

[e30topless]

do you think that dealers/manufacturers can sell newer cars cheaper by making future revenue from difficult repairs ?

it certainly seems that way, disposable motoring..

[Andyboy]

I had to change a turbo on a 335i the other day. It was either engine out or front subframe off.

Needless to say i took the latter.

Luckily it was the rear turbo. If it was the front turbo then the electric water pump and thermostat would have had to come off.

My other boss has a 335i twin turbo now..has been at BMW for the recall item (high pressure fuel pump i think) didnt even know there was a recall out on these

Hope i dont have to do a turbo anytime soon lol

The 335i's have a really bad reputation in the USA with a big group of lawsuits. I would still have a 325i manual M Sport Coupe, but a 2006/7 model with the 'old' engine. You don't hear many bad things about those but the 335i's are a bloody disaster.

[bss325i]

newer cars just seem to be way over complex without any future repairs in mind when developing them,

I sadly got involved in changing a headlight on a 2 year old astra last week almost all of the front end had to come off ! very sad.... took most of a morning up to remove 3 screws and swap it for a new one..

Headlight bulb on a renault modus means headlight out which means bumper off!

[Cypriotgeeza]

I had to change a turbo on a 335i the other day. It was either engine out or front subframe off.

Needless to say i took the latter.

Luckily it was the rear turbo. If it was the front turbo then the electric water pump and thermostat would have had to come off.

My other boss has a 335i twin turbo now..has been at BMW for the recall item (high pressure fuel pump i think) didnt even know there was a recall out on these

Hope i dont have to do a turbo anytime soon lol

The 335i's have a really bad reputation in the USA with a big group of lawsuits. I would still have a 325i manual M Sport Coupe, but a 2006/7 model with the 'old' engine. You don't hear many bad things about those but the 335i's are a bloody disaster.

I will be talking to my boss about this on monday morning anything to look out for inpurticular?

[Andyboy]

do you think that dealers/manufacturers can sell newer cars cheaper by making future revenue from difficult repairs ?

it certainly seems that way, disposable motoring..

Maybe. Certainly, car sales is the lowest earner in a dealership - the workshop and bodyshop is where the real money is earned. Put it tgis way - Barry earns more as a mechanic than I did as a BMW salesman! Okay so there are regional diferences but even where I worked there was only 100-200 quid a month between me and a tech.

[DanThe]

Changed plenty of M50 starters from underneath, autos are a bit more difficult due to space, from memory I think the worst placed starter ive seen was on a merc A class, not done the job but it looked like it was engine out no iffs or buts
pic -



Can you see the little bastard!!

[Andyboy]

My other boss has a 335i twin turbo now..has been at BMW for the recall item (high pressure fuel pump i think) didnt even know there was a recall out on these

Hope i dont have to do a turbo anytime soon lol

The 335i's have a really bad reputation in the USA with a big group of lawsuits. I would still have a 325i manual M Sport Coupe, but a 2006/7 model with the 'old' engine. You don't hear many bad things about those but the 335i's are a bloody disaster.

I will be talking to my boss about this on monday morning anything to look out for inpurticular?

I've prepared a 335i buyers guide.

















Don't.

[Cypriotgeeza]

Changed plenty of M50 starters from underneath, autos are a bit more difficult due to space, from memory I think the worst placed starter ive seen was on a merc A class, not done the job but it looked like it was engine out no iffs or buts
pic -



Can you see the little bastard!!

[e30topless]

almost anything done on a merc A class means engine out !

and why delete the oil/sump drain plug ffs !

[Cypriotgeeza]

almost anything done on a merc A class means engine out !

and why delete the oil/sump drain plug ffs !

prob where they got the idea for a smart car with..think you have to suck it through the dipstick if i remember correctly?