E36 M3 - Quick advice?

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Nay
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:12 am

Just went to test drive an E36 M3 (thats an m3 ticked off in the "one day I want to drive" car list!).

Deep purple (actually looks quite nice!). 3.2 Evo with kit. Completely standard bar "eibach suspension thats apparently 30mm, but was 60mm" (as much as the guy knew about that!). 106k on the clock. £4k (which I got him down 500ish). Upon mechanic inspection I'll make him a lower offer (if I consider taking it), so like 3.5k (unless theres problems!).

Right, this is a UK import, so not all Jersey miles!!! Apparently 103k UK miles, imported, one year of occasional driving and he says he just doens't drive it enough to fork out for the insurance! (he is a young lad... 19! Under the daddies name for insurance). It isn't even parked at his house!

Remember importing costs a fair bit and to see it going for only a bit more than UK ones is a good thing!

What should I look out for upon a more interested gander and mechanic inspection? Bodywork is mint on the exterior... inside is cream and worn, but not hard and cracked at all. Full M3 sporty interior etc.

Engine runs well, so it seems. No overheating, starts first time and quickly (stalled it once whilst being really carefull at a junction!). Doesn't seem tappety in any way and no visible leaks. Apparently had a cambelt change at 103k, had a genuine dealer sticker confirming the change but thats "gone". No service history (like a suprising amount of jersey cars..) in the guys posession. Apparently the orignal owner had a good record, but the guy never saw it.

How reliable and pricey to fix and service are these engines? Do they live much beyond 100k in the UK?

Finally, the suspension is lowered and something to do with "eibach". The steering feels as heavy and tight as a go-kart. Is this normal? Also, the throttle felt ever so slightly "loose", as in you press it a tiny bit and nothing happens then you touch the area where the throttle come out to play. Needs refurbishment on the gear linkage. The car definately feels worn. How "pricey" would it be to recondition parts on this car and what are the key things to tighten everything up?

Absolutely rapid car.

My final thoughts though. The interior (dash etc) feels so much more tacky than an E30 although seats are sublime (not best nick, but style and comfort! :D). Nice...ish to drive, rapid mobile... but still doesn't feel as playful as an E30... E30s are still nicer.

Its just my E30 is going to cost a bomb to to the work I want. I'd like a day to day car so I can break my 320i for its goodies and better parts for the black 325i. Although it would put my E30 project back for a bit... it would mean I have a nice car in the mean time. and I may consider the S50 swapper-roo at the end!


Any opinions lads as I may just be interested enough get this.
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Fushion_Julz
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:32 am

E36 M3 with a cambelt?!?

FYI they have chains.
Looked after, there is no reason they won't cover 250K miles...Vanos is the usual issue, rarely fails, but can get noisy.

Heavy steering could be just tyres (under inflated, oversized, or just the brand) or it could be dirty power steering fluid or a partially seized rack...

If it is a nice, clean Evo coupe with Vader interior and no nasty coucil stuff and no accident then £3.5K sounds cheap for a <110K miles car.
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:14 pm

Fushion_Julz wrote:E36 M3 with a cambelt?!?

FYI they have chains.
Looked after, there is no reason they won't cover 250K miles...Vanos is the usual issue, rarely fails, but can get noisy.

Heavy steering could be just tyres (under inflated, oversized, or just the brand) or it could be dirty power steering fluid or a partially seized rack...

If it is a nice, clean Evo coupe with Vader interior and no nasty coucil stuff and no accident then £3.5K sounds cheap for a <110K miles car.
Thanks mate. He said "timing belt" i think when the bonnet was open, I'm sure that there was a black belt at the front, but it was running and moving fast!

Ye, the heavy steering is a bit annoying, but could be sorted. It has standard Motorsport alloys. Just lowered on what could be just springs. Probably return it to standard. So stiff Go-kart like steering isn't too far out of the ordinary? Get a new rack to be sure I suppose if it does get a tad annoying.

£3.5k-£4k sound reasonable? I'll snap some photos up next time I see it!

Finally, i've heard (with later BMW engines) Vanos and Non-Vanos but i'm not actually sure what this is? What sort of "noise" will it make.

If they can live for 250k in the UK then there is no reason why this shouldn't live to 160-180 in jersey :D

I think I just may conisder it then. Go look up some E36 buyers guides and the likes!
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jmc330i
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:29 pm

NayC wrote:Thanks mate. He said "timing belt" i think when the bonnet was open, I'm sure that there was a black belt at the front, but it was running and moving fast!
That long black belt at the front runs the water pump, power steering, alt, viscous fan etc. There should be another shorter one that runs the aircon and emissions pump thingy.

They defo have timing chains.
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Fushion_Julz
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:37 pm

The black belt at the front of the engine is the ancilliary drive belt...waterpump, alternator, power steering, etc

It definitely has a (duplex) chain, not a timing belt, though...

I can't say whether the steering is unusual, or not...You may have to drive another to compare the two to be sure...
Larger tyres, lowered suspension, etc, all contribute to the stering "feel", so it may well be normal, just heavier than your current E30, is all...

The price sounds about correct on the cheap side for a nicely maintaned, low mileage evo.

All S50 engines are dual vanos equipped....
The noise associated with wear is a rattle from the front of the timing case....Usually caused by oil starvation which is a result of the feed pipe being blocked...usually due to long spaces between oil changes and/or the use of cheap below spec oil...

Vanos units can be reconditioned and aren't too expensive...If it is currently quiet, changing the vanos filter and gaskets regularly along with using good oil should keep it working well...
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Cheers!

Just read a buyers guide (really in-depth one!) and points out a lot of things.

Seems this one feels like it should. Steering should be very tight with no play and more than likely heavier than an average, especially when lowered etc.

Seems like a good'un. Could possibly get it checked by 2 garages. My local one and maybe the dealership may be able to do an hours oversee! I just need to take it out properly, test a cold start (probably no problems!), test exhaust crap with a white towel from cold and when warm, test all the electrics and so on. This is bartering my brain more and more... :? I could really enjoy owning an M3, even if its just for a bit :D

What do people think about the values of these cars? Will they start to shoot up in value in around 5 years, sort of similar (but not as bad!) as the E30?
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SteMarsden
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:49 pm

IMO.
If it has been owned by a 19 year old lad then I'd treat it to a set of ARP rod bolts for £90 as the standard bolts are prone to stretching and destroying the engine....
...even more important if you are going to keep the car for the motor :D

Dont hold your breath for an increase in residuals!
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:42 pm

Think the guy sold it...

He'll call me back if the deal collapses but a previous viewer said he would call him back and the guy never received a phone call!

Oh well, if it goes though it goes through. I'll just keep my eye out for a lower milage jersey one. Even if I do have to pay island price.
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e21Jason
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:01 pm

Hi

3.5k is well cheap for an evo check pistonheads and they are more like 5k, I bought one a few months ago and basicaly had to sort the bushes and the front drop links and rear top mounts then a £600 inspection 2 service so now it drives spot on.

Jason
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:48 pm

I'am actually hoping that deal fails and the guy rings me up. Or he's bullshitting as he wont accept the offer of £4k he accepted yesterday.
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Blitz
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:58 pm

19 year with a M3 evo :eek:
Nay
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:07 pm

Blitz wrote:19 year with a M3 evo :eek:
Yup lol.

He dad owns a garage, and has fleet insurance. He's a named driver, so can drive everything the fleet insurance covers! He drives a land rover as his daily/work car and doesn't have much time to drive the M3 and doesn't really like it anymore... apparently.

I'm just 21. £1.1K to insure :P 3y no claims. Pricey, but worth it. From what I've heard, some young lads pay more than that for their 316i!
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e30bmlover
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:46 pm

those engines are chain driven!! without a doubt... i need to drive one! i want one... estoril blue :drool: so it went like shit off of a shovel?? what sort of speeds were you getting in each gear?? i suppose it may seem like a silly question as you said you were taking care while driving it... does anyone know??
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low325icab
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Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:31 am

e30bmlover wrote:those engines are chain driven!! without a doubt... i need to drive one! i want one... estoril blue :drool: so it went like shit off of a shovel?? what sort of speeds were you getting in each gear?? i suppose it may seem like a silly question as you said you were taking care while driving it... does anyone know??
just got back from town so drunk and could be a bit out here but in mine .......
1st 40ish
2nd 70
3rd 100
4th 135-140
5th 160
6th 164 on the limiter
and it gets there pretty quick too lol
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andyp
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Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:48 am

low325icab wrote:
e30bmlover wrote:those engines are chain driven!! without a doubt... i need to drive one! i want one... estoril blue :drool: so it went like shit off of a shovel?? what sort of speeds were you getting in each gear?? i suppose it may seem like a silly question as you said you were taking care while driving it... does anyone know??
just got back from town so drunk and could be a bit out here but in mine .......
1st 40ish
2nd 70
3rd 100
4th 135-140
5th 160
6th 164 on the limiter
and it gets there pretty quick too lol
you still got it then.
Benho
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Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:07 am

PPC mag done a good right up on the evo.
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low325icab
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Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:32 am

andyp wrote:
low325icab wrote:
e30bmlover wrote:those engines are chain driven!! without a doubt... i need to drive one! i want one... estoril blue :drool: so it went like shit off of a shovel?? what sort of speeds were you getting in each gear?? i suppose it may seem like a silly question as you said you were taking care while driving it... does anyone know??
just got back from town so drunk and could be a bit out here but in mine .......
1st 40ish
2nd 70
3rd 100
4th 135-140
5th 160
6th 164 on the limiter
and it gets there pretty quick too lol
you still got it then.
alright andy, yer i still got it. cant keep out of lol.
how you been?
you still got the 325 cab then? i do miss mine, wish i had of kept it now. it went to somewhere near kent but aint seen it since.
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Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:19 pm

e30bmlover wrote:those engines are chain driven!! without a doubt... i need to drive one! i want one... estoril blue :drool: so it went like shit off of a shovel?? what sort of speeds were you getting in each gear?? i suppose it may seem like a silly question as you said you were taking care while driving it... does anyone know??
Suprisingly, I think a nice sporty E30 feels nicer to drive. The E36 M3 steering is rock solid (apparently, according to other sources, it should be like that), the interior dash is near-ford tacky. But the Vader seats are stunning, the driving posistion is just a touch better than an E30, the engines a bit too smooth and nice for me to obsess over, but they do look good.

Any yes, 321bhp, it does go like shit off a shovel propelled by nasa. We were comming up to a massive straight at the bottom of a hill, stuck behind some foreigner doing 25mph. Guy puts his foot down in second and :eek: fast! Topping just over 100mph in 3rd! Maybe 6 seconds of acceleration, if that? Brakes where good too. The guy was just dordling around before, then rockets to a ton, and back to 40mph. Quick and simple!
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Wocka
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Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:47 pm

They are lovely cars, I'm grinning like a fool everytime I get out of mine.

As said above, it's chain driven not belt and the Evo is a dual vanos (3.0 is single). Don't be too put off by vanos scare stories, they are rebuildable now.

However you can still quite easily find yourself with a 1K+ repair bill if it's been neglected. I spent allot in the first year of ownership...

Have a look on bmwowner.com there's loads of info on there (you'll find a journal for mine on there too). I would be wanting to see service history and receipts.

3.5K is well cheep by the way.
Nay
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Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:12 pm

Ye, thats what scared me off was the lack of service history. But the guy's dad is a mech, so may have done bits (hidden bits) himself. But according to a couple of really indepth buyers guides, its seems pretty spot on. If I spent silly money in the first year, at least they are considered very reliable cars so it could of turned out to be a goodn. Unfortunately I'm not in a position where I can just say "I'll take it" straight off the bat...

Well, I'll find out for definate on monday, but I think the kids sold it to a fireman! Oh well, at least on my way back from the gym yesterday I spotted a mint black escort cosworth at a tiny garage (that doesn't happen in this island, theres only like 10 cossys). For £7k, doubt I'll buy it but I will put my "very interested" face on and take it for a test drive (if they'll let me).
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e30bmlover
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Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:00 pm

NayC wrote:
e30bmlover wrote:those engines are chain driven!! without a doubt... i need to drive one! i want one... estoril blue :drool: so it went like shit off of a shovel?? what sort of speeds were you getting in each gear?? i suppose it may seem like a silly question as you said you were taking care while driving it... does anyone know??
Suprisingly, I think a nice sporty E30 feels nicer to drive. The E36 M3 steering is rock solid (apparently, according to other sources, it should be like that), the interior dash is near-ford tacky. But the Vader seats are stunning, the driving posistion is just a touch better than an E30, the engines a bit too smooth and nice for me to obsess over, but they do look good.

Any yes, 321bhp, it does go like shit off a shovel propelled by nasa. We were comming up to a massive straight at the bottom of a hill, stuck behind some foreigner doing 25mph. Guy puts his foot down in second and :eek: fast! Topping just over 100mph in 3rd! Maybe 6 seconds of acceleration, if that? Brakes where good too. The guy was just dordling around before, then rockets to a ton, and back to 40mph. Quick and simple!
lol... my kind of car then!! iv gotta drive one!!
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Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:14 am

Hi Nay,

Don't forget that I have an M3 albeit a 3.0 so if you need to know anything then just ask.

I wouldn't rule out a 3.0, the 3.0 and the 3.2 both have their pros and cons I guess what you should be looking at is a nice original well looked after car regardless of cc.

I have to say that if it were me I think I'd be concentrating on the 325i you have, I drive an M3 every day but when I jump into my 325i Sport I'm always impressed by just how rapid and lithe it feels compared to an M3 and I know your young but jesus-£1100 for a years insurance? :eek:

Also there is this to consider, M3s like to stretch their legs and most of the fun/power/action happens at the top end-something that you will not achieve much in Jersey unless you like driving like a twat therefore it will spend most of its life pottering about below 60mph (legal limit is 40) with typical short jounrneys that we do here. Also although 103k miles is nothing major don't forget the attitude of Jersey car buyers i.e you might find it hard to shift when you get fed up of it.
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Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:49 am

True, true. I'd definately consider either, just not a convertable. E30 M3 convertable (albiet if one ever comes up for sale) I wouldn't think twice about, but not an E36 or later. Its just there is very few M3s ever for sale in jersey. I'll hold on till I find another.

The 325i is still getting worked on. The major downtime is coming from trying to get hold of certain parts. Finally, I think I'm getting a Z3 rack off Mike over here (he's decided to break his E30 rally car for one he's found and so he's shifting some parts...). I need a 325i cylinder head and then a few little expensive parts. After they have been collected, all is good and rebuild the engine.

TBH, I should look to build my 325i... then go prowling for M3's! :o: But i will keep my eye open for a bargain in the mean time. 8)
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