Hi!
I've just sold my E30 318is, as I'm looking for a more big and comfy car, wife and two kids are the main reason.
I'm considering a '04 320i E46 Sedan (2.2l engine) with just 62000kms. It has all the goodies any man can ask, such as Xenox headlights, cruise control, leather seats, cd changer, and so on.
I'm very familiar with the E46 itself, but here in Portugal petrol E46 are a very rare sight, and specially 6 cyl ones, so I'm in the dark, engine wise.
Therefore, I'd like to know what I can expect from the engine, its performance, consumption and known problems!
Thank you in advance.
Cheers!
320i E46 advice needed!
Moderator: martauto
Hi Oversteer,
I think the most important point about buying an E46 is that you have to have a sense of humour. Or you are an American cos that's who this car was designed for.
I have just made the selling my E30 and now have a large lardy souless E46 2001 325Ci SE Step wrongness sitting on my drive mistake.
The Bad:
The problems with these cars are numerous, electrical gremlins include central locking that you WILLl be replacing, even Fiat can get that one right! Power seats with a mind of their own, (see central locking problem yes they are related, lets attach all they relays to one control PCB and solder them on, there are cheap fixes for this but oh what hassle). Engine sensors that give up after a very short lifespan (Exhaust, Intake & O2) 32K??? Whats that about? E30 18 years and the same bosch sensors still working correctly when I sold her. Window regulators and motors that will go if you buy a coupe, watch the you tube E46 build video to spot the reason why.
Early cars 323/328 in coupe form suffered from rear sub frame bushes going very quickly and damaging the fixing points on the monocoque.
Front control arm bushes (You cannot buy the bush seperate from the control arm from BMW, hey it worked for Ford. Get the hammers and extractors out and a trip to powerflex, and lots of plasters) and all front rubber goes very quickly too on all cars.
VANOS, Oh lets pretend that doesnt exist, Head in the sand la,la,la
Overheating problems, Expansion tanks go made from crap plastic, and so does the "Plastic" thermostat and fan clutches aslo go very quickly so look out for cooked cars.
Then there is the Steptronic if you buy an auto. Early ones built by GM in France (confidence building? Think Renault 25 auto, seen one recently? and at a breakers yard doesnt count for the smart arses out there, you know who you are
) the later by the nice people at ZF. If the car has been driven hard in manual mode these units give up apparantly eating reverse gear.
Manuals have problems too but I will let someone else advise you on those as I have not investigated that area.
Oh and No LSD, not even as an option on NON M cars.
Steering lacks feel.
Then there's the drive. To use Jeremy Walton on the subject Faster, More powerful, More space and More luxuirous, but ultimately souless. Or to use my wife "What a lardy arssed barge, what have you done you idiot!" another biast E30 owner
.
The Good:
Nice big boot, very comfy, drive it all day and not feel tired, M54 despite all the above is an excellent unit once you replace all the bits that bolt to it, very reliable (think metal bits covered in oil but Exclude VANOS, I am exaggerating here for effect). Nice big chain for the camshaft with old M30 type build quality. MPG/KPL is very good on the motorway think mid to high 30's if driven with a light right foot, my trip computor often says 42 MPG but like me, it too likes to exaggerate.
Compared to most other modern cars it is a very good drive, but and its a big, big BUT compared to an E30 or even an E36 it has lost that essential BMW small sports saloon car feel.
Buy An E30 or E36 Touring, I am. . . .
I think the most important point about buying an E46 is that you have to have a sense of humour. Or you are an American cos that's who this car was designed for.
I have just made the selling my E30 and now have a large lardy souless E46 2001 325Ci SE Step wrongness sitting on my drive mistake.
The Bad:
The problems with these cars are numerous, electrical gremlins include central locking that you WILLl be replacing, even Fiat can get that one right! Power seats with a mind of their own, (see central locking problem yes they are related, lets attach all they relays to one control PCB and solder them on, there are cheap fixes for this but oh what hassle). Engine sensors that give up after a very short lifespan (Exhaust, Intake & O2) 32K??? Whats that about? E30 18 years and the same bosch sensors still working correctly when I sold her. Window regulators and motors that will go if you buy a coupe, watch the you tube E46 build video to spot the reason why.
Early cars 323/328 in coupe form suffered from rear sub frame bushes going very quickly and damaging the fixing points on the monocoque.
Front control arm bushes (You cannot buy the bush seperate from the control arm from BMW, hey it worked for Ford. Get the hammers and extractors out and a trip to powerflex, and lots of plasters) and all front rubber goes very quickly too on all cars.
VANOS, Oh lets pretend that doesnt exist, Head in the sand la,la,la
Overheating problems, Expansion tanks go made from crap plastic, and so does the "Plastic" thermostat and fan clutches aslo go very quickly so look out for cooked cars.
Then there is the Steptronic if you buy an auto. Early ones built by GM in France (confidence building? Think Renault 25 auto, seen one recently? and at a breakers yard doesnt count for the smart arses out there, you know who you are
) the later by the nice people at ZF. If the car has been driven hard in manual mode these units give up apparantly eating reverse gear. Manuals have problems too but I will let someone else advise you on those as I have not investigated that area.
Oh and No LSD, not even as an option on NON M cars.
Steering lacks feel.
Then there's the drive. To use Jeremy Walton on the subject Faster, More powerful, More space and More luxuirous, but ultimately souless. Or to use my wife "What a lardy arssed barge, what have you done you idiot!" another biast E30 owner
.The Good:
Nice big boot, very comfy, drive it all day and not feel tired, M54 despite all the above is an excellent unit once you replace all the bits that bolt to it, very reliable (think metal bits covered in oil but Exclude VANOS, I am exaggerating here for effect). Nice big chain for the camshaft with old M30 type build quality. MPG/KPL is very good on the motorway think mid to high 30's if driven with a light right foot, my trip computor often says 42 MPG but like me, it too likes to exaggerate.
Compared to most other modern cars it is a very good drive, but and its a big, big BUT compared to an E30 or even an E36 it has lost that essential BMW small sports saloon car feel.
Buy An E30 or E36 Touring, I am. . . .
Thanks for your words, guys!
Jonuk, thanks for the trouble of writing such a long and illustrating text... It's a dark view of the car, but somehow it's in line with the thought that good quality BMWs are past history!
As the car in question was produced in 06/2004, last year of E46 production before the E90, I'm hopping all that annoying problems you describe are already solved...
I know that an E46 will never equal the E30 feel and soul, so I was already counting with that one!
Nevertheless, you got me thinking...
By coincidence, today I came across with a '94 318is E36 sedan in mint condition, with just 84.000kms covered with full history service, for a fraccion of the E46 price, of course. Sure this E36 does not have the xenon, or the leather, or all the tecnostuff the E46 does but I owned back in the days a 318is Coupé and it was a very nice car...
Now I'm confused!!
Jonuk, thanks for the trouble of writing such a long and illustrating text... It's a dark view of the car, but somehow it's in line with the thought that good quality BMWs are past history!
As the car in question was produced in 06/2004, last year of E46 production before the E90, I'm hopping all that annoying problems you describe are already solved...
I know that an E46 will never equal the E30 feel and soul, so I was already counting with that one!
Nevertheless, you got me thinking...
By coincidence, today I came across with a '94 318is E36 sedan in mint condition, with just 84.000kms covered with full history service, for a fraccion of the E46 price, of course. Sure this E36 does not have the xenon, or the leather, or all the tecnostuff the E46 does but I owned back in the days a 318is Coupé and it was a very nice car...
Now I'm confused!!
The main problem with the later cars E46/E90 is that they have become almost disposable in component quality. I think the dilution of the brand by the widening of the range 1-3-Z4-5-6-7-X and Z costs have had to be cut. Mercedes is even worse. My neighbour has a NEW C-Class and its spent more time back at the dealers than he has had it to drive.
This said even brands which were always sold the bulk of their cars on reliabillity such as Volkswagen & SAAB are failing just the same as BMW for reliabillity and component design flaws.
Many of the problems on the E46 have actually been carried over into the E90 such as the GM5 module, you would have thought they would have fixed it but still not.
However, all said and done I would still rather drive a newer BMW than one of its competitors because they are still a superior product.
I'd go and drive a couple of E46 and then go and drive that E36 and then decide on the way forward. The E46 is still a very good car but ownership costs are going to be a lot higher despite the trade off in M54 engine economy with MPG/KPL.
This said even brands which were always sold the bulk of their cars on reliabillity such as Volkswagen & SAAB are failing just the same as BMW for reliabillity and component design flaws.
Many of the problems on the E46 have actually been carried over into the E90 such as the GM5 module, you would have thought they would have fixed it but still not.
However, all said and done I would still rather drive a newer BMW than one of its competitors because they are still a superior product.
I'd go and drive a couple of E46 and then go and drive that E36 and then decide on the way forward. The E46 is still a very good car but ownership costs are going to be a lot higher despite the trade off in M54 engine economy with MPG/KPL.
A good late E36 is a better bet than an E46. They drive much the same and they are less problem prone. I had a 320d Touring several years ago when they were new and had both wishbones, headlight lenses, MAF and rear wheel bearing in about 35'000 miles.
The 1999 Ford Ka I had before that did 60'000 in 2 years with 8 oil/filter changes (only £10 from Ford Rapid Fit) and a set of front pads.
E46's are good cars but the early 323i/328i's are pretty horrid (add engine/autobox wiring look failure to that list). All E46's are blighted by poor quality Bosch rubbish. A pity BMW didn't dump them and use Hitachi!
The 1999 Ford Ka I had before that did 60'000 in 2 years with 8 oil/filter changes (only £10 from Ford Rapid Fit) and a set of front pads.
E46's are good cars but the early 323i/328i's are pretty horrid (add engine/autobox wiring look failure to that list). All E46's are blighted by poor quality Bosch rubbish. A pity BMW didn't dump them and use Hitachi!
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stuartgallafant
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Are you quite happy to admit this then?!Andyboy wrote:...The 1999 Ford Ka I had before that did 60'000 in 2 years with 8 oil/filter changes (only £10 from Ford Rapid Fit) and a set of front pads...
Well, I bought the E46!
Maybe I'm getting old, but the modern feeling and confort of the drive captured me...
Even so, I've already booked a service to change the front silentblocks, because they are not so silent anymore!
In the onwer hand book, BMW state that those engines run better with 98 octane petrol, but I've spoken to a guy that is a tecnhician in a BMW dealer, and he said that 95 oct is just fine and I wouldnt note the difference!
Any thoughts on this one will be apprecciated!
Maybe I'm getting old, but the modern feeling and confort of the drive captured me...
Even so, I've already booked a service to change the front silentblocks, because they are not so silent anymore!
In the onwer hand book, BMW state that those engines run better with 98 octane petrol, but I've spoken to a guy that is a tecnhician in a BMW dealer, and he said that 95 oct is just fine and I wouldnt note the difference!
Any thoughts on this one will be apprecciated!
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stuartgallafant
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Its more the M-Power engines that are designed around high grade fuel. You wiil notice the difference i reckon, as the higher grade fuels do have more technology focused towards engine health and better running, etc.
The engines are programmed to adapt, so using better fuel will give you better results, but its fine running on normal fuel, as will adapt to this too
it depends if you wanna spend the extra money on fuel!
I use high octane fuel in my bike and would never use anything else, but they're different again!!!
The engines are programmed to adapt, so using better fuel will give you better results, but its fine running on normal fuel, as will adapt to this too
it depends if you wanna spend the extra money on fuel!
I use high octane fuel in my bike and would never use anything else, but they're different again!!!
Here in Portugal, the 98 oct petrol costs around 10% more than the 95 oct, but if the better running provided by the 98 oct could make the car 10% (or near) less thirsty, I'd go for the 98oct every time, of course!stuartgallafant wrote: it depends if you wanna spend the extra money on fuel!
Problem is I'm afraid this fuel saving percentage would be hard to achive...
I've had my 1999 e46 for almost 5 years, and I've done almost 100K in that time, it had 43k when i bought it and has 142k now.
Apart from routine servicing (I've used bmw up to now, but I will do my own oil services and get an independent to do the inspections) the only parts that have needed replacing are
The front wishbone bushes at 70k (they need doing again now).
New disks and pads at 60k which will need doing again soon too.
At 99k I changed the air/con and alternator drive belts (£25 for parts about an hours DIY)
At 103K I changed the thermostat since the car only got to about 1/3 warm, about £35 for the part and a couple of hours labour including a coolant change.
At 107K I replaced a rear window regulator (£80 part, about an hour's DIY again).
It has however just failed it's MOT on emissions, on lambda readings, so it's going to a specialist later for diagnostics, fingers crossed!!!
Apart from routine servicing (I've used bmw up to now, but I will do my own oil services and get an independent to do the inspections) the only parts that have needed replacing are
The front wishbone bushes at 70k (they need doing again now).
New disks and pads at 60k which will need doing again soon too.
At 99k I changed the air/con and alternator drive belts (£25 for parts about an hours DIY)
At 103K I changed the thermostat since the car only got to about 1/3 warm, about £35 for the part and a couple of hours labour including a coolant change.
At 107K I replaced a rear window regulator (£80 part, about an hour's DIY again).
It has however just failed it's MOT on emissions, on lambda readings, so it's going to a specialist later for diagnostics, fingers crossed!!!
Trust me mate, I've had cars you can only dream of.stuartgallafant wrote:Are you quite happy to admit this then?!Andyboy wrote:...The 1999 Ford Ka I had before that did 60'000 in 2 years with 8 oil/filter changes (only £10 from Ford Rapid Fit) and a set of front pads...
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Morat
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On our drive... E30 325i Touring, E46 330 Touring msport (whatever you call it, mtech wheels/suspension/kit)
Living in the country surrounded by small (not single track, but no white line) B roads, I walk right past the E46 for local trips. The moment we're looking at a trip with dual carriageways its the E46 everytime. E30s are great for that seat of the pants feeling of involvement in the drive (especially with eibach/bilstein suspension) but the E46 is a superb cruiser and still capable of picking up its skirts when asked nicely - and quicker according to any stopwatch if that's what you're worried about.
Another, more prosaic, consideration is that if you're doing motorway speeds - you need motorway safety. E46 is two generations ahead of the E30 and has multiple airbags and proper side impact protection. I didn't use to care about that sort of thing either, but there are people out there who I wouldn't trust with a rubber brick let alone a set of car keys...
E36? I suppose you could, but I don't drive ugly - sorry ;)
Living in the country surrounded by small (not single track, but no white line) B roads, I walk right past the E46 for local trips. The moment we're looking at a trip with dual carriageways its the E46 everytime. E30s are great for that seat of the pants feeling of involvement in the drive (especially with eibach/bilstein suspension) but the E46 is a superb cruiser and still capable of picking up its skirts when asked nicely - and quicker according to any stopwatch if that's what you're worried about.
Another, more prosaic, consideration is that if you're doing motorway speeds - you need motorway safety. E46 is two generations ahead of the E30 and has multiple airbags and proper side impact protection. I didn't use to care about that sort of thing either, but there are people out there who I wouldn't trust with a rubber brick let alone a set of car keys...
E36? I suppose you could, but I don't drive ugly - sorry ;)
E30 Touring 0.35 cD - more slippery than prison soap
Praise the Lard... and pass the dripping!
Praise the Lard... and pass the dripping!
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stuartgallafant
- E30 Zone Addict
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- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:00 pm
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How did you know I dream about Ka's?! You been hanging around my window at night again?!.... Remember what the Judge said Andy....Andyboy wrote:Trust me mate, I've had cars you can only dream of.stuartgallafant wrote:Are you quite happy to admit this then?!Andyboy wrote:...The 1999 Ford Ka I had before that did 60'000 in 2 years with 8 oil/filter changes (only £10 from Ford Rapid Fit) and a set of front pads...
