might turn to the dark side

[e30bmlover]

as of late i have been looking into buying a dirty six 328i sport. they arent that much money and with the 325 inlet mod there is some seriouse fun to be had!
so what are the dirty six's like to own?? i hear they go through axel bushes like there is no tomorrow.
also what do i need to look for when buying one??

[capri_rob]

My 328i Coupe was probably the best car I've ever had. Never had a problem with axle bushes but it I only took it from 56k up to 80k in 2 Years. They can rust on the rear arches but nothing like as bad as E30's - mine had a tiny patch on one of the rears but it wasn't worth painting at that stage as it was so small. Can rot around the front panel as well ( my mates L reg E36 318is is suffering badly from this ).
Only problems I had were fairly basic maintenance - they eat front balljoints regardless of driving style and can be hard on brake discs as well.
As for ownership experience mine was all good - fast, never broker down, economical if you want it to be and great engine noise.
Buy the best one you can afford that hasnt been messed with and you won't be disappointed.

[maxfield]

Would this mean you would be selling your E30?

[darkchild]

My main piece of advice would be to buy the best example possible. A lot of E36's have fell into chav hands, are run on the cheap and don't get the care and maintenance they need.

Most 328i's priced up to 2K are moneypits. 3.5-4K will buy an absolute minter that's not going to depreciate much more. They are known for having the munchies for suspension components - bushes and balljoints are the usual casualties. Springs are also known to snap at the bottom coil - they get coated in crud over the years and rot through. Early E36's can be quite grim but the later ones are superbly built - check rear arches, wings and around the bootlid for rust. Anyone who thinks they're of inferior build to an E30 is talking rubbish. Mine are both '97 P Plates and look as good as the day they left the factory. No rust, rattles or squeaks.

Nikasil is something to be aware of but later alloy blocks are known for head gasket issues. If the nikasil block has made it this far, chances are it will be OK. Fitted with the 325i bits and a remap and you're looking at 220bhp and giving a 330ci a run for its money.

A good one drives and handles superbly and still feels like a modern car. A completely different driving experience to an E30 and a superb everyday car. Neither of mine have been expensive to run. I've had one for 6 years and 80K miles and apart from regular servicing its had two suspension bushes and a water pump. My only criticism is they're probably a little too refined for their own good.

Don't discount the 325i - the M50 is more robust than the M52.

[e30bmlover]

Would this mean you would be selling your E30?

doubt it mate, i will run both.... if the missus will let me!
thanks to everyone for the advice.. i will be looking for the best example possible! did they do these cars in estoril blue???

[fingerman]

There's no dark side - it's still a BM so it's all good - a Merc would be the dark side

[Pad]

I recently brokered the sale of one of these, a mint 98 sport, in Hellrot. Had 135000 miles on it, felt like new but had impeccable service history. Sold for 3200 which I think was a fair price... very capable car, but left me a little cold compared to an E30 Sport.

Worth checking if the nikasil block has been replaced as all M52s...

[old_skool]

That's a no on estoril blue.

Montreal blue is much nicer anyway.

[GrindCulture]

A friend of mine had a very nice 323i, tinkered with a bit pushing out a little under 230bhp, pretty quick little car, and really very comfortable on long cruises when not driven like a psychopath. Unfortunately he sold it and bought a Vectra diesel

[darkchild]

did they do these cars in estoril blue???

M3's only I think. I really like Morea Green, but its quite rare to see a 328i in that shade.

[chrisr29]

I recently brokered the sale of one of these, a mint 98 sport, in Hellrot. Had 135000 miles on it, felt like new but had impeccable service history. Sold for 3200 which I think was a fair price... very capable car, but left me a little cold compared to an E30 Sport.

Worth checking if the nikasil block has been replaced as all M52s...

I can vouch for that as I'm the one that bought it. Already put 2k miles on it with no issues. More civilised than an e30 and as a result they don't feel any quicker, untill you've driven it around for a while and realise they are significantly faster.

Thinking of doing the 325 manifold mod. There's a guy on the e36 forum that sells all the bits (manifold and bored out throttle bodies) ready to bolt on for £400 ish delivered. Which aint a lot for the claimed performance increase.

[robbo86]

my old man not long ago aquired one for a shade over 3k and he loves it, just make sure its not over-lowered, his was (to about 80mm) and had to be sorted out (at a cost of 500squid for parts alone, that was bilstein shocks and eibach sprngs)

my mate who is a chartered engineer, specialising in steering and suspension (he designed the steering and suspension set up for the mclaren SLR, and now works for mclaren f1) also has an e36 328i and he suggested to my old man 30mm front 25 rear is about right

my mates 328 has rear subframe bush issues and the ride is all over the place, compared ot my old mans whihc is nice and tight

whats this 325 throttle body mod about, not one i heard of (but then not an e36 person so i wouldnt know) what does it do as i might suggest it to him, see if he is interested

[chrisr29]

whats this 325 throttle body mod about, not one i heard of (but then not an e36 person so i wouldnt know) what does it do as i might suggest it to him, see if he is interested

The 328 was essentially restricted by the factory to keep it below some sort of 200bhp German car tax band. They did it by reducing the size of the ports on the inlet manifold. A 325 one has much bigger ports and essentially de-restricts the engine at the top end. Good for an extra 20bhp or so.

[darkchild]

whats this 325 throttle body mod about, not one i heard of (but then not an e36 person so i wouldnt know) what does it do as i might suggest it to him, see if he is interested

The 328 was essentially restricted by the factory to keep it below some sort of 200bhp German car tax band. They did it by reducing the size of the ports on the inlet manifold. A 325 one has much bigger ports and essentially de-restricts the engine at the top end. Good for an extra 20bhp or so.

Always combine it with a remap. A remap alone on these often liberates another 10 ponies.

[Pad]

I recently brokered the sale of one of these, a mint 98 sport, in Hellrot. Had 135000 miles on it, felt like new but had impeccable service history. Sold for 3200 which I think was a fair price... very capable car, but left me a little cold compared to an E30 Sport.

Worth checking if the nikasil block has been replaced as all M52s...

I can vouch for that as I'm the one that bought it. Already put 2k miles on it with no issues. More civilised than an e30 and as a result they don't feel any quicker, untill you've driven it around for a while and realise they are significantly faster.

Thinking of doing the 325 manifold mod. There's a guy on the e36 forum that sells all the bits (manifold and bored out throttle bodies) ready to bolt on for £400 ish delivered. Which aint a lot for the claimed performance increase.

Hi Chris!

Good to hear the E36 is going well, how did you go at Nurburgring?

Pad

[chrisr29]

I recently brokered the sale of one of these, a mint 98 sport, in Hellrot. Had 135000 miles on it, felt like new but had impeccable service history. Sold for 3200 which I think was a fair price... very capable car, but left me a little cold compared to an E30 Sport.

Worth checking if the nikasil block has been replaced as all M52s...

I can vouch for that as I'm the one that bought it. Already put 2k miles on it with no issues. More civilised than an e30 and as a result they don't feel any quicker, untill you've driven it around for a while and realise they are significantly faster.

Thinking of doing the 325 manifold mod. There's a guy on the e36 forum that sells all the bits (manifold and bored out throttle bodies) ready to bolt on for £400 ish delivered. Which aint a lot for the claimed performance increase.

Hi Chris!

Good to hear the E36 is going well, how did you go at Nurburgring?

Pad

Car's going great mate. 'ring trip was fab, managed to stay on the track and out of the armco for the whole trip!

Any joy selling the e30?

[Pad]

on ebay right now, search for net-cars and you will see it!

(sorry for the thread hijack!)

[Chase007]

on ebay right now, search for net-cars and you will see it

Its not coming up when searched net-cars?

[Pad]

search for ebay member net-cars and then check items for sale...

[Jeepster]

The e36 328 is quite a nippy car, as stated they do much bottom ball joints and rear spring failure is very common on all e36's. I lowered a M3 a few weeks back and that had a broken front..

Water pumps are probably more of an issue though, originally they were plastic impeller items, over time they just stop pumping. Always worth changing if you don't have any evidence of it being done, the metal impeller pump isn't expensive from Euro or GSF, about £30 iirc.

Trailing arm bushes are also a bit of an issue, although I've had 3 e36's and never had to replace them. This is the problem Robbo has described I'm sure. Basically you know if they are gone because the back end feels detached from the car and all over the place.

Nikasil is only on early cars, I'm sure your aware of this issue, if not then a good search around the net will tell you all you need.

I have read on here a few times now about the head being an issue, although I have never had an issue, or even heard of one, unless damaged through over heating. I'm not saying that its a complete myth, but I do thinks its not the issue people portray on here.

As for the engine, well its running 193bhp from new, its a lazy engine, very torquey, but lazy all the same. As stated earlier upgrading the manifold is essential really. Basically, you can see the kind of gains when you realise that the 325 ran 192bhp and the 323 (same engine bar the map and intake manifold and throttle body) ran 170bhp. the 323 and the 328 share the same intake and throttle body. Alpina527 is the fella on e36coupe who sells the kit, you can get an intake from the breakers and that will give you some gains, but if you want the most then Alpina527's is the way forward. He take one of the 3 types of 325 intake manifolds and bores it out even further and matches this with his big bore throttle body. Now combined with a good map, exhaust, induction kit and under driven pullies I have seen cars produce over 240bhp. you will not achieve this with the standard 325 manifold though.

There is no difference other than cosmetic between the sport and the non-sport coupes, although the saloons have softer suspension and thinner arb's, nothing that can't be cured with some Eibach springs and a set iof arb's from the breakers.

If you do fancy a sport, then the BBS rims are going to be a nightmare, you will struggle to find a car with good non- corroded alloys, unless someone has just had them refurbed. Which is a bit of a mare, the alloys are 2 piece, not 3 so you will not be able to add just an outer lip for extra dish, if that's your thing, standard they are diamond cut and the lacquer nearly always cracks and allows water to get in. A refurb from a good company is going to be circa £90 per wheel, they are hard work to sort out.

the climate control is also an issue on the post-facelift cars, a quick search of the net will show you the cheap capacitor fix, so don't be put of, always quote the high cost for replacement units if your bartering down.

Rust if present, is usually found on the rear arches, inside the boot, under the rubber between the rear lights, sometimes on the rear slam panel, around the jacking points and around the front arches if the seal isn't around the arch.

As for looking at cars, best spec and condition is the major factor here, if you find a good modified car (i.e. manifold and TB done and quality parts used) do not discount it, after all there is a world of difference between some of the 328's on e36coupe and the council, lexus light brigade and often the person who is spending money on well researched mods is also an enthusiast who is particular about they're car. Standard desirables include the 18 button OBC, rear electric windows (coupe), cruise control, arm rest (sounds silly I know, but they are a must), sports leather, LSD (rare on the 328), rear headrests and lux pack leather door cards.

Good luck finding one.

[robbo86]

ok forgive me if i am being dense, but i assume thats the e36 325 and not the e30 325 throttle body

[darkchild]

ok forgive me if i am being dense, but i assume thats the e36 325 and not the e30 325 throttle body

Yep.

[e30bmlover]

jeepster thanks for the indepth post, it has opened my eyes! i dont know what to do at the moment. i will get all the bodywork done on the 320/25 and see what happens. but if a nice 328 does come up for sale i will take the 320/25 off of the road and keep it somewhere safe.

[Andyboy]

Rear trailing arm bushes are easy DIY, and the front balljoint issue can be cured by using E30 front wishbones. The heads don't really give issues but the alloy can sink between the liners on steel liner blocks which is why I'd go for a car with the Nikasil engine. If it's still running okay after 12 + years, it's not going to be an issue now. High milers tend to be better, especially cars that had a lot of use early on.

Sports are still getting robbed of their front bumpers so you'll need a blob of Mig weld on the studs/nuts.

The newest ones are now 10 years old so finding a nice one is getting harder. I wouldn't discount a nice 328i saloon and adding the important bits.

[tim_s]

Trailing arm bushes are also a bit of an issue, although I've had 3 e36's and never had to replace them. This is the problem Robbo has described I'm sure. Basically you know if they are gone because the back end feels detached from the car and all over the place.

as andy says, Z axle bushes are diy (although last time i did one I pressed them in using a crappy vice that wasn't ideal, threaded bar for sure next time!), uprated part now too so shouldn't fail again.

Nikasil is only on early cars, I'm sure your aware of this issue, if not then a good search around the net will tell you all you need.

Only post March 98 build date are not nikasil, most e36 328s are nikasil

As for the engine, well its running 193bhp from new, its a lazy engine, very torquey, but lazy all the same. As stated earlier upgrading the manifold is essential really. Basically, you can see the kind of gains when you realise that the 325 ran 192bhp and the 323 (same engine bar the map and intake manifold and throttle body) ran 170bhp. the 323 and the 328 share the same intake and throttle body. Alpina527 is the fella on e36coupe who sells the kit, you can get an intake from the breakers and that will give you some gains, but if you want the most then Alpina527's is the way forward. He take one of the 3 types of 325 intake manifolds and bores it out even further and matches this with his big bore throttle body. Now combined with a good map, exhaust, induction kit and under driven pullies I have seen cars produce over 240bhp. you will not achieve this with the standard 325 manifold though.

Standard manifold is designed to give more usable torque. Design aims of m52 over m50 inc improved FE, torque, less noise etc. The manifold helps meet these goals by higher port velocity at low rpm, is not merely a restriction. m50 manifold changes the character of the engine sure, but certainly not essential. Common misperception that the m50 manifold is all gain no losses, but a look at the torque curves demonstrates this is not the case. At 1500rpm-2krpm iirc the 2.8 makes an extra 20% or so torque (that's looking at the BMW r/r figures, not diy efforts), obv not solely due to it's 10% or so extra capacity. peak torque is increased by somewhere around 15% iirc and occurs at lower rpm, again not jsut capacity increase to achieve this. Basically for everyday driving m52 manifold is best, for spirited driving m50 manifold. afaik Ian (alpina527) does not port the m50 IM any more than the standard m50 IM (and if he does it wouldn't port match the cyl head anyway!) so no extra gains from running his inlet other than bbtb which does 5/8 f all.
m50B25 and m52B25 have loads of other differences you've not acknowledged: different exh manifolds, different exhaust (dual all the way on m50), different fuel pressure and management, different head design (counterbalanced cams and smaller tappets on the m52), different block material etc.

There is no difference other than cosmetic between the sport and the non-sport coupes, although the saloons have softer suspension and thinner arb's, nothing that can't be cured with some Eibach springs and a set iof arb's from the breakers.

ARBs, shocks, springs, offset control arm bushes, LSD on early cars, staggered wheels and different tyres, black headlining, generally quite a lot different between sport and non-sport. The two feel pretty different to drive, saying that there is no difference other than cosmetic is misleading. would cost more than the premium you pay for a sport to convert a non-sport. springs + shocks + arbs + CABs + new wheels will have the suspension sorted, then you just need to nail the other areas, headlining, bodykit, poss LSD etc and then you'll have yourself nearly a fake sport for what mb £1k on top of what you paid, when you could've just paid a few hundred extra to start with

[Jeepster]

Yeah, your right, I just didn't go into as much detail.

I've not changed the rear trailing arm bushes, as I said, so I don't know how easy they are.

From experience, most 96 and 97 cars seem to have had the engine change, its the 95's that seem to have been left behind, I can only presume that this is because they had already fallen out of the dealer network, so the recall wasn't done. So I stand by my comment.

Your comments about the engine are fair.

And yeah I forgot about the Avus kit on the sport, that, the wheels and the eccentric bushes are the only difference that's not cosmetic though. The set tyre set up I actually don't like, the early 328's could have type 5's optioned on them, these came with 235/40's all round and provide a much better handling option I think. The wider rear and thinner front just help to accentuate the under steer imho. The ARB's are the same for all non-m coupes, there have been various claims that the sport has thicker fronts and rears, but this is false from what I have seen. I have stripped 318is's and they have the same size.