z1's

[Jetl3on]

Sorry jet but no red blooded male would pick a Z1 over a CSL.

Please note I don't include hair dressers in that statement.

I didnt say they would, I said it depends who you are asking.

If we are talking about E30Zone members, then clearly it will be the CSL, hands down. And that is `partly` because most people on here dont know anything about the Z1, other than what they have read (or been told by Z1 haters )

[Jetl3on]

Why are we are discussing Z1 vs CSL, they are 2 completely different animals, you cannot compare the 2 cars, chalk and cheese, chocolate and marmite.

Andyboy you brought it up, no idea why, now how about you give me some constructive comments rather than try to sidetrack the discussion, to support your feeble argument?

So we have established the Z1 is not as fast as a Porsche (big deal), or as desirable as a CSL to E30Zone members (irrelevant). What else you got?

[Morat]

OK, what can the Z1 do that a 325i Cab can't apart from showing your choice of trousers to a disinterested public?

[Andyboy]

Separated at birth?

The BMW Z1



and the Reliant SS-1

Oh God no! The Z1 might have been effeminate, but at least it was good looking. The Scumitar was bloody awful - although it did drive very well.

The best sports car of that era - having driven them extensively when new (I used to sell them), was the the FWD Lotus Elan. Ignore all the nonsense about fwd - they were an absolute benchmark in car handling and the way they used go......
They were remarkably reliable as well, a Lotus first!
Again though, they were just too expensive although still over £10'000 cheaper than the Z1. What scuppered it was the Mazda MX5.

Interesting, you called it reliable whilst failing to mention the poor quality interior, plasticky bits falling off and the fact many of its parts can be found on a Vauxhall or was it Ford? (more subjective and biased comments??)

The Lotus Elan is a fantastic little car, but 20years on, where are they now, selling for 3K on ebay.
Now go check the classifieds for a high mileage Z1, 20years on and still bulletproof, rustproof, and prices stabilised at 15-22K for the past 10years.

A classic case, sadly, of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing!
Elans didn't have poor quality interiors. Most of the parts from the parts pin came from Japan.
The Z1 was - and remains - a technological dead end. It achieved and proved nothing, and didn't advance the science of car making one iota. The famous Z axle is both very heavy and has been proven that it doesn't do anything a well set up semi trailing arms suspension cannot do. It was a slow, odd looking irrelevance that today attracts only curiosity value.

[pacerpete]

So we have established Jet13on likes driving around with his doors off and being checked out by labour voting mirror readers/ Z1s are cool but not 20 bags cool / Z1s are a ball ache to sell / Z1s are not very vast / Jet13on doesn't want my headlight / Exhaust boxes that act as diffusers are cool,but not £1000 cool /Ratch has been outed as a Z1 fan / Trevor B7 will buy a Z1 if witter can supply a 'trailer hitch' / Lemon yellow is much nicer than the nasty 'camo' trim but a real 4rse to keep clean / Z1s are a rare sight but there are still 7000 stashed up various back passages worldwide.

just in case you are still on the fence, here is a TRUE story to help you decide !

Back in the late 90s I witnessed a sight that was gay enough to make Boy George cringe, that sight was two gentleman of colour 'cruising' Soho in their his and his Z1s, both green with lemon and their doors retracted, it was not a good look !

[Andyboy]

He doesn't own an E30 - perhaps Jet is sat at home in front of the pc dressed only in Lemon Yellow rubber shorts scouring the net hunting down those haterz dissin' the Z1!

[Jetl3on]

OK, what can the Z1 do that a 325i Cab can't apart from showing your choice of trousers to a disinterested public?

Morat, you dont have anything useful to add to this debate, so lets drop it.
You have the nerve to suggest the Z1 cannot stand next to that ugly Schimitar.

Incredible.

Interesting, you called it reliable whilst failing to mention the poor quality interior, plasticky bits falling off and the fact many of its parts can be found on a Vauxhall or was it Ford? (more subjective and biased comments??)

The Lotus Elan is a fantastic little car, but 20years on, where are they now, selling for 3K on ebay.
Now go check the classifieds for a high mileage Z1, 20years on and still bulletproof, rustproof, and prices stabilised at 15-22K for the past 10years.

A classic case, sadly, of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing!
Elans didn't have poor quality interiors. Most of the parts from the parts pin came from Japan..

I like the Elan as I said, even its plasticky bits, it was designed by Lotus, but with a Jap engine and parts from General Motors cars as they owned the comopany back then.
I just want a little parity from you when you publicly hammer the Z1, but give the Elan such Kudos, knowing Lotus had financial issues and had to use parts from other cars to reduce its production costs.

[
The Z1 was - and remains - a technological dead end. It achieved and proved nothing, and didn't advance the science of car making one iota. The famous Z axle is both very heavy and has been proven that it doesn't do anything a well set up semi trailing arms suspension cannot do. It was a slow, odd looking irrelevance that today attracts only curiosity value.

How can you say it doesnt do anything, they were given a project to build something different and thats exactly what they did, from the suspension, to the shell, to the rear diffuser, the bodywork, never been done before on a BMW road car, all new technologies at the time, whatever has been proven since is not the point.
Sucess is not always measuerd by sales and winning races, but by what you learn doing it.

[Jetl3on]

So we have established Jet13on likes driving around with his doors off and being checked out by labour voting mirror readers/ Z1s are cool but not 20 bags cool / Z1s are a ball ache to sell / Z1s are not very vast / Jet13on doesn't want my headlight / Exhaust boxes that act as diffusers are cool,but not £1000 cool /Ratch has been outed as a Z1 fan / Trevor B7 will buy a Z1 if witter can supply a 'trailer hitch' / Lemon yellow is much nicer than the nasty 'camo' trim but a real 4rse to keep clean / Z1s are a rare sight but there are still 7000 stashed up various back passages worldwide.

just in case you are still on the fence, here is a TRUE story to help you decide !

Back in the late 90s I witnessed a sight that was gay enough to make Boy George cringe, that sight was two gentleman of colour 'cruising' Soho in their his and his Z1s, both green with lemon and their doors retracted, it was not a good look !

Hahahaha
Thats uncalled for, but I forgive you, I can understand your frustration though, you cannot win this debate with reasoned comments as your made up facts have been disproven, so you go personal.

Tut tut. Your showing yourself up there PP, a man of your age should not resort to low blows to win an argument.

[Andyboy]

They didn't learn anything doing it! The Z axle had already been designed - running E36 prototypes were on the road in 1988, and E30's with the Z axle in 1986/7. BMW just wanted to show off, but it backfired and they lost money.

Pisstaking and keyboard jousting aside, I don't hate Z1's. It's quite neat in it's own way. Just not for me.

[pacerpete]

So we have established Jet13on likes driving around with his doors off and being checked out by labour voting mirror readers/ Z1s are cool but not 20 bags cool / Z1s are a ball ache to sell / Z1s are not very vast / Jet13on doesn't want my headlight / Exhaust boxes that act as diffusers are cool,but not £1000 cool /Ratch has been outed as a Z1 fan / Trevor B7 will buy a Z1 if witter can supply a 'trailer hitch' / Lemon yellow is much nicer than the nasty 'camo' trim but a real 4rse to keep clean / Z1s are a rare sight but there are still 7000 stashed up various back passages worldwide.

just in case you are still on the fence, here is a TRUE story to help you decide !

Back in the late 90s I witnessed a sight that was gay enough to make Boy George cringe, that sight was two gentleman of colour 'cruising' Soho in their his and his Z1s, both green with lemon and their doors retracted, it was not a good look !

Hahahaha
Thats uncalled for, but I forgive you, I can understand your frustration though, you cannot win this debate with reasoned comments as your made up facts have been disproven, so you go personal.

Tut tut. Your showing yourself up there PP, a man of your age should not resort to low blows to win an argument.

The Soho incident is 100% true !!


Don't get me wrong, I do not dislike the Z1 , but 20k buys a lot of serious tackle, and for my 20k I want more than 171 BHP and disappearing doors


PS nice shorts !

[Morat]

OK, what can the Z1 do that a 325i Cab can't apart from showing your choice of trousers to a disinterested public?

Morat, you dont have anything useful to add to this debate, so lets drop it.
You have the nerve to suggest the Z1 cannot stand next to that ugly Schimitar.

Incredible.

Incredible only to your blinkered view. Since you won't answer my simple question with your opinion I will give you mine (and then we can drop it if you like).
The Z1 is the runt of BMWs 80s range. It is fugly, and way overpriced. The E30 Cabriolet is a far better choice of car since it is immeasurably better looking, just as quick and a fraction of the price. I don't understand why you would value a Z1, and judging by the fact free nature of your posts... I guess I never will.

[Jetl3on]

Don't get me wrong, I do not dislike the Z1 , but 20k buys a lot of serious tackle, and for my 20k I want more than 171 BHP and disappearing doors


PS nice shorts !

I don't hate Z1's. It's quite neat in it's own way. Just not for me.

Andy you are clearly a petrolhead and performance is a big thing for you, fair enough, 171bhp is not enough for you, how about 346BHP from this car?

The Z1 is a very unique car for a niche market, it is not for everyone and cant be compared with anything else, it was one of those moments where BMW threw the rulebook out of the window and decided to do something different, and for that they get my vote everytime..[/quote]

[Blitz]

[Jetl3on]

Removed

[e30topless]

A freind owns one of these, I think it's vile but he loves it ?

as with any BMW model it's each to their own, they design their cars to cater for all tastes?
personally it's not for me,

sadly the Z1 looks like something out of a kit car magazine that was thrown together in an asbestos council garage,

if I wanted a 2 seater BMW with a 20k price tag I would be without a doubt looking for a Z4

[swindler]

That looks awesome on Hartge splits...

[mr_dink]

fugly, and way overpriced.

This sums up the z1 very well.

[harry_p]

I quite like z1s, but the way you're banging on like they were the most ground breaking, most important car in the world marks you out as a complete fanboy, and you seem to equate strangeness to greatness.

Sure the z1 was a niche model for BMW at that time, but it was just another front engined rwd soft top two seater, hardly anything new or unique there.

We have the z axel, yes the z1 was where it was showcased, but it wa not designed exclusively for the z1, and plenty of other cars already had complex multilink rear ends. The z3 was a far greater commercial success despite making do with ancient and simple suspension.

The doors. Ok, so it's interesting, cool in an odd way even, unique yes, but ultimately totally pointless and just makes getting in and out far more difficult than a normal door. If it was that brilliant an idea surely someone else would have tried it by now?

I'm not sure what this revolutionary diffuser is supposed to be, but even the e30 m3 had an aerodynamically optimised rear bumper sloped like the upper surface of a diffuser with plastic cladding extending forward and around the spare wheel well to smooth airflow under the back of the car. I find it hard to believe that noone else had done anything similar.

The sad fact is tha many othe cars at the time were a lot cheaper and could run rings around the z1. An elan may be a mishmash of parts put together by women in hairnets in a shed in Norfolk ( thanks jezza ) but it worked superbly, and the fact that you see many more out and about, being used and putting miles under their wheels than you do z1s means they can't be all that flakey, and if they were, who cares! At least they're being used and enjoyed not being sat on as investments.

I guess when you own an expensive car that nothing special to drive you may as well leave it sat there waiting for it to go up in value rather than get your moneys worth of enjoyment from actually using it regularly. What price can you put on many thousands of miles of fun motoring? Maybe ask an elan owner ;)

[Morat]

Incredible only to your blinkered view. Since you won't answer my simple question with your opinion I will give you mine (and then we can drop it if you like).
The Z1 is the runt of BMWs 80s range. It is fugly, and way overpriced. The E30 Cabriolet is a far better choice of car since it is immeasurably better looking, just as quick and a fraction of the price. I don't understand why you would value a Z1, and judging by the fact free nature of your posts... I guess I never will.

Right Morat, your turn

What facts would you like, you didnt ask a question.

Yes I did

What can it do a 325i cannot?

That one!

But there is no answer to that, as they are not in the same category and cannot be compared.

Late 80s BMW soft top, running an M20B25. Hmm, that sounds like a pretty tight categorisation to me! The fact that one costs £2k for a decent example and the other is drooled over by deluded idiots hardly removes the basic similarities.

Its okay not to like it, I have no problem with that.

Oh, I think it is pretty clear that you do.

I do think your not right in the head and perhaps consider going to an AA meeting, but hey, who am I to judge..

Since you think that a fugly, overpriced automotive dead-end is worth £20k no you are not the person to be judging. btw, AA is for Alcoholics, not for automotive obsessives. A small distinction, but one likely to be important to you in the future.

One last chance to take back those Fugly remarks...They may not be your kind of thing, but ugly they are not.

One last chance before what? Internet tough guy?! Your car is an ugly turd. Deal with it.

[Falkster]

4 pages??
I could summarise but I think this has been covered many times during the waffle.

Z1s are really nice cars but not worth the brass they are for sale for. Very much down on power and hardly groundbreaking design apart from the 'mincing' doors to show off your farrah shorts.

Personally I like them (especially the Boston green one) but I won't lose sleep if I never get one - it'd hardly exhilerating driving one, there are many more cars out there that could do that for less money.

Z3M and an E30 M3 FTW (and a fish 'n chip supper with the change)

[Andyboy]

The Z1 came from an era when manufacturers still had the balls to do something like this. I'm not a fan of Z1's, but at least they made it. If only they'd been less greedy price wise - BMW were selling hitherto unbelievable amounts of cars and getting away with some outrageous pricing. Like the 850i, it was just too expensive.

20 grand today buys the best 850CSi in the universe and that's a far, far more iconic and desirable car than a Z1. perfect low mileage Elans - of which there are sadly very few - command 15 grand still. But you try finding one. back in 1994/5, good used ones were fetching at least a grand over list. Experts say Lotus couldn't sell them but really, Lotus could never make enough so there was no point in pricing it cheaper. There was always a waiting list and Lotus discontinued it, thought again and brought it back for another short run.
I sold one - a yellow example - in March 1995 and took in part ex a 2 door 325iSE on the E plate, a plastic bumper car in Mineral blue with black leather, LSD, sports seats, sports suspension, 15 inch BBS, LSD and headlight wipers. The guy bought it new and ordered that spec because BMW had discontinued the 325i Sport. IIRC, we gave £10'000 for it against an Elan. The good old days!

[Falkster]

It's strange how the 850 is worth so much when it's not that long ago you could pick them up for pennies. I wouldn't have thought they were old enough to become that desirable, hardly rare but still great cars!

[Francisco]

Incredible only to your blinkered view. Since you won't answer my simple question with your opinion I will give you mine (and then we can drop it if you like).
The Z1 is the runt of BMWs 80s range. It is fugly, and way overpriced. The E30 Cabriolet is a far better choice of car since it is immeasurably better looking, just as quick and a fraction of the price. I don't understand why you would value a Z1, and judging by the fact free nature of your posts... I guess I never will.

Right Morat, your turn

What facts would you like, you didnt ask a question.

Yes I did

What can it do a 325i cannot?

That one!

But there is no answer to that, as they are not in the same category and cannot be compared.

Late 80s BMW soft top, running an M20B25. Hmm, that sounds like a pretty tight categorisation to me! The fact that one costs £2k for a decent example and the other is drooled over by deluded idiots hardly removes the basic similarities.

Its okay not to like it, I have no problem with that.

Oh, I think it is pretty clear that you do.

I do think your not right in the head and perhaps consider going to an AA meeting, but hey, who am I to judge..

Since you think that a fugly, overpriced automotive dead-end is worth £20k no you are not the person to be judging. btw, AA is for Alcoholics, not for automotive obsessives. A small distinction, but one likely to be important to you in the future.

One last chance to take back those Fugly remarks...They may not be your kind of thing, but ugly they are not.

One last chance before what? Internet tough guy?! Your car is an ugly turd. Deal with it.

That's the example of a really low-class, council reply. God, that one made me cringe...

I bet you're the toughest guy in your neighbourhood!

[Morat]

Another post based on emotion instead of fact, this seems to be a theme amongst Z1 fanbois. Clearly you are not open to rational argument and will now be ignored.
Goodbye!

[Andyboy]

It's strange how the 850 is worth so much when it's not that long ago you could pick them up for pennies. I wouldn't have thought they were old enough to become that desirable, hardly rare but still great cars!

8 Series aren't worth a toss are they? Plenty of decent ones about for £5000 and you'll get a very tidy CSi for 10k. However, unlike the 6 Series E24 the 8 Series isn't a car you see driven into a scrapyard as 100 quids worth of rusty junk. They do have a value but it's not that much right now. Apparently they are very good breakers so there's demand for the bits to keep them going. I bet 75% of all E31's are still in one piece.

[jmc330i]

Dr Ulrich Bez you will recognise the name I'm sure, the man who brought the Z1 to life, has one if these in his living room, that's a huge statement.

And that huge statement is that he would rather look at it than actually drive it?

Doesnt say a lot for a car really.

[toby]

IF(!) Ulrich Bez has one of his own designs in his living room then it is a huge statement of self-indulgence and conceit. This would be particularly so as it isn't a great looking car.

Z1 - so how do you get into it when there's a flat battery?


It is strange to me to read such strong feelings expressed for/against them. I suppose I can insult it even more by claiming indifference to its heavy, slow and vanity based package.

[Andyboy]

Dr Ulrich Bez you will recognise the name I'm sure

Wasn't he the bloke who played maracas and danced oddly for The Happy Mondays?

Twistin' my melon man.

[gooner1]

Easy mistake to make Andy
This is Dr Ulrich Bez


and this is Bez from the Mondays


The confusion is confounded by the good Dr,s strange habit of always
carrying a pair of Maracas, and Bez,s from the Mondays penchant for wearing business suits.

[mabz]

i love the z1 blitz posted also love the ac schnitzer one too.the alpina rle's are also good but id prefer one o the other too.

[TheHeap]

I had use of one of these little things for about a week and thought it was a great little motor. I think it was Boston green with the beige/sand leather, very swift but those doors were a bit poncy when pulling up outside a boozer.

[Andyboy]

Easy mistake to make Andy
This is Dr Ulrich Bez


and this is Bez from the Mondays


The confusion is confounded by the good Dr,s strange habit of always
carrying a pair of Maracas, and Bez,s from the Mondays penchant for wearing business suits.

Aah cheers Rob. Everything is clear now.

[senna]

I know all about Z1s,I have owned 2 , I was distinctly underwhelmed and struggled to sell either at a profit, granted that was 10 years ago.
I have owned 5 E34 M5 tourings, 4 Sport Evolutions, 3 E28 M5s, 6 E30 M3 convertibles ,2 Alpina B10 Biturbos and alas,just 1 Alpina B6s. They are all genuinely rare cars that are also useable.

If I wanted an impractical plastic 1 trick pony, I would buy a TVR griffith and spend the large amount of change on AA membership and lots of petrol

impressive but does not Change the fact you don't know any Z1 owners. you may have purchased 2 for profit but that's not the same as ownership in the context we are discussing.
The Z1 is far more than a one trick pony which you would know if you look beyond the resale value, It sounds like your judging the car purely on what you lost rather than constructive comments such as the innovative Z axle, found on later Z and BMW models, aluminium monocoque shell, weight distribution, vario paintwork, multi layer plastic body panels, rear diffuser, handling and the unbelievable sliding doors , still unrivalled to this day, technology all before it's time and still a head turner next to most supercars, one of the few cars I have seen that few people criticise, apart from guys looking for a quick profit.

Yes , both Z1s were bought primarily to turn a profit , I did keep one for about a year as it was a very nice car and I thought if I am patient a nice victim with a good profit will appear (he didn't)
The fact that I struggled to find any cashed up victims shows that you are in the tiny minority more easily impressed by suspension that is found on garden £100 E36s and aerodynamically optimised £1000 rear exhaust boxes than most of the car buying public. Do you own / are you trying to sell a Z1 ?


PS I have an excellent O/S headlamp assembly for one of these extremely rare ground breaking hero chariots ,if you are interested ?

Do you still have this headlamp Pete?

[pony]

BMW made over 7000 of these , so they are hardly rare, just all stashed away waiting to become valuable. Alas most people that have them think they are in custody of the crown jewels. They drive well in a 325 convertible with a fancy frock kind of way but are tedious to use on a regular basis .
Any Z1 specific parts are very expensive/difficult to obtain. Every one I have been involved in has been hard work to sell and I recall there was only a decent profit turned on one of them

If you want a quirky 2 seater BMW to satisfy your inner gayness a Z3M is a far better car

Z3 M Coupe (S54) in Estoril Blue or Z4 M Coupe in Interlagos Blue FTW

[pony]

I know all about Z1s,I have owned 2 , I was distinctly underwhelmed and struggled to sell either at a profit, granted that was 10 years ago.
I have owned 5 E34 M5 tourings, 4 Sport Evolutions, 3 E28 M5s, 6 E30 M3 convertibles ,2 Alpina B10 Biturbos and alas,just 1 Alpina B6s. They are all genuinely rare cars that are also useable.

If I wanted an impractical plastic 1 trick pony, I would buy a TVR griffith and spend the large amount of change on AA membership and lots of petrol

Very impressive collection should u ever own a M3 CSL can u take me for a ride in one ?
I too prefer a mint E30 325 Convertible than a Z1.