E46 M3 Power output lies!

[jonb]

So what's the deal here?

I was going to take my M42'ed Touring to one of these chooning places to get the last bit of power out but we're saying that they are either all crooked or figures vary so wildly that you cannot confirm whether you actually got a gain?

No?

rash

What difference does it make when your below 135 fire breathing bhp. fool.

[jonb]

i dont agree with all the shitzer stuff everywhere, esp. those gay wheels. dont really even like E46 M3's to be honest, seen way too many of them!!

Yep,

They just dont have the handling balance, damp boot and raspy engine note of your i.s do they stu.

[Andyboy]

So what's the deal here?

I was going to take my M42'ed Touring to one of these chooning places to get the last bit of power out but we're saying that they are either all crooked or figures vary so wildly that you cannot confirm whether you actually got a gain?

No?

rash

What difference does it make when your below 135 fire breathing bhp. fool.

My toaster has more power than a 318iS. Maybe I should get that remapped.

[pacerpete]

Don't be dissing the 'mini M3 ' you philistines !

[M5pilot]

It is so easy to make an E46 M3 seem low on power.

If you put the M3 straight onto a dyno it will not rev all the way to the redline on a dyno as it senses the front wheels aren't moving.

There are a few different methods of putting them into dyno mode such that they will rev all the way and make very close to their quoted power.

Some dyno places don't put the car into dyno mode and run the car and it puts down very low figures. They then remap the car and run it in dyno mode and suddenly you get this huge gain in power. Customer goes away very happy.

Autologic can put the car into dyno mode and there are a few other ways (I haven't tried these).

Maybe this goes some way to explaining the very low 290 bhp?

[oakey]

It is so easy to make an E46 M3 seem low on power.

If you put the M3 straight onto a dyno it will not rev all the way to the redline on a dyno as it senses the front wheels aren't moving.

There are a few different methods of putting them into dyno mode such that they will rev all the way and make very close to their quoted power.

Some dyno places don't put the car into dyno mode and run the car and it puts down very low figures. They then remap the car and run it in dyno mode and suddenly you get this huge gain in power. Customer goes away very happy.

Autologic can put the car into dyno mode and there are a few other ways (I haven't tried these).

Maybe this goes some way to explaining the very low 290 bhp?

^That makes sense to me^ He said it was running on Vpower petrol so I dont believe it lost 50hp from the petrol.
Do you recon it is likely that they are scammers then?
It wasnt cheap so I'm sure my friend would like to know.

[e30bmlover]

a good friend of mine has just bought a m3 convertable....... its the bolloks!

[M5pilot]

It is so easy to make an E46 M3 seem low on power.

If you put the M3 straight onto a dyno it will not rev all the way to the redline on a dyno as it senses the front wheels aren't moving.

There are a few different methods of putting them into dyno mode such that they will rev all the way and make very close to their quoted power.

Some dyno places don't put the car into dyno mode and run the car and it puts down very low figures. They then remap the car and run it in dyno mode and suddenly you get this huge gain in power. Customer goes away very happy.

Autologic can put the car into dyno mode and there are a few other ways (I haven't tried these).

Maybe this goes some way to explaining the very low 290 bhp?

^That makes sense to me^ He said it was running on Vpower petrol so I dont believe it lost 50hp from the petrol.
Do you recon it is likely that they are scammers then?
It wasnt cheap so I'm sure my friend would like to know.

This doesn't sound like something that is going to be easy to get to the bottom of.

You'd ideally need someone with Autologic to there again, remove the remap and run the car.
Then, put the remap back on and run the car again.

Your friend will then know for a fact that both runs were done in dyno mode.

You'll also need to monitor the rear brake lights and if the air intake temperature is being inputted correctly.

Don't worry about offending the place who did it, remaps on E46 M3's are extremely expensive (usually £500+).

[EndaW]

Dyno mode.

Hold the car at 4000rpm on the dyno, press and hold the traction button for 10 seconds, let car drop to idle by pressing the clutch.

Then dyno the car as normal reaching max rpm.

The original car was tested using 102 octane and at 17.8 degrees (din 90020)

You will never get m3 power using 98 octane and no where near using 95.

You lot worry about genuine power figures, thank your lucky stars you dont own a ferrari, lambo or TVR !!!!

[Royalratch]

Dyno mode.

Hold the car at 4000rpm on the dyno, press and hold the traction button for 10 seconds, let car drop to idle by pressing the clutch.

Then dyno the car as normal reaching max rpm.

The original car was tested using 102 octane and at 17.8 degrees (din 90020)

You will never get m3 power using 98 octane and no where near using 95.

You lot worry about genuine power figures, thank your lucky stars you dont own a ferrari, lambo or TVR !!!!

Awesome. This guy appears to know his shit.

[oakey]

Dyno mode.

Hold the car at 4000rpm on the dyno, press and hold the traction button for 10 seconds, let car drop to idle by pressing the clutch.

Then dyno the car as normal reaching max rpm.

The original car was tested using 102 octane and at 17.8 degrees (din 90020)

You will never get m3 power using 98 octane and no where near using 95.

You lot worry about genuine power figures, thank your lucky stars you dont own a ferrari, lambo or TVR !!!!

So its entirely possible that they just shoved in loads of octane booster then.... hmmmm

seems like a good money making business owning a RRoad

[oakey]

a good friend of mine has just bought a m3 convertable....... its the bolloks!

but it needs 102 octane fuel to run at its stated power

[Turbo-Brown]

Dyno mode.

Hold the car at 4000rpm on the dyno, press and hold the traction button for 10 seconds, let car drop to idle by pressing the clutch.

Then dyno the car as normal reaching max rpm.

The original car was tested using 102 octane and at 17.8 degrees (din 90020)

You will never get m3 power using 98 octane and no where near using 95.

You lot worry about genuine power figures, thank your lucky stars you dont own a ferrari, lambo or TVR !!!!

awesome, whadda you need to do to get an extra life?

I wanna car with cheats built into it!

[snoops]

[oakey]

My mate said he doesnt know whether they put it into "dynoMode". He always uses Vpower petrol. But he says he trusts the place as the mechanic owns an e46 M3 csl and has owned a few other e46 m3s so therefore knows about them very well.
The place he took the had the remap done at is called Fornay Motorsport. Are they well known? (i may have spelt it wrong)

[maxfield]

Thorney motorsport?

They are well known, also have a very good reputation.

[oakey]

Thorney motorsport?

They are well known, also have a very good reputation.

I would assume that would be the place I think I spelt it the "cockney" way

Are they near Milton Keynes?

[maxfield]

Sure are.

http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/

[ShepsEvo3]

Dyno mode.

Hold the car at 4000rpm on the dyno, press and hold the traction button for 10 seconds, let car drop to idle by pressing the clutch.

Then dyno the car as normal reaching max rpm.

The original car was tested using 102 octane and at 17.8 degrees (din 90020)

You will never get m3 power using 98 octane and no where near using 95.

You lot worry about genuine power figures, thank your lucky stars you dont own a ferrari, lambo or TVR !!!!

Is this the same for the M5??

If it was Thorney Motorsport, I would say they know what they are doing. The figures being banded about for this car do seem odd....but also, and I am not saying its the case with this car, Porsche's "learn" how you drive the car and set a map which is the best for how the car is being driven...in this case it could have been economy. If the car was well looked after, then maybe it wasn't driven past 4000RPM untill your friend bought it. If it was driven like a loon from day one, the story maybe different.

I have heard that 40BHP or thereabouts can be had by remapping the E46 M3, but nothing is gained below 4000 RPM apparently?? I am yet to do one myself, so can't speak from experiance - YET!

[oakey]

the exact figures were 290bhp before remap and 340bhp afterward.

[maxfield]

It says on their site they measure power at the wheels.

Dyno Runs - Power at the Wheels

This is likely to be controversial (for the UK market anyway, the American and Australian markets are ahead of us here) in that we will now be only quoting actual horsepower at the wheels not the flywheel. Why is this controversial? Because flywheel figures are at best educated guesswork. When a manufacturer releases a car and quotes a power figure at the flywheel it is measured on an engine dyno in strictly controlled conditions. Once you add the drivetrain, chassis, electrical systems, wheels and tyres to the equation this number can vary radically. All chassis dynos measure power at the wheels as their first and most accurate number then extrapolate a flywheel figure based on either 'coast down' loss (allowing the car to run down out of gear against the resistance in the rollers) or via a mathematical calculation. Both methods of flywheel measurement can vary from road to road and dyno to dyno leaving the end customer simply confused as to what they have from their car. We had 2 choices, either play the same game as everyone else and market our own flywheel figure and launch into a load of marketing blurb about how our dyno is more accurate than the next guys or make a stand here and now, so that's what we're doing - We will quote and guarantee the power at the wheels figure for any work we do or power runs we take for any owner via a rolling road day or simple power run. We will of course provide details and graphs of indicated flywheel power outputs as well as power at the wheels but these will be indicative only.

Its power at the wheels that matters as it is this that actually pushes the car along not the output figure from the engine before it gets to drive the car forward.

Think that solves it.

As it's about 270-280 standard

[ShepsEvo3]

Unfortunately thats not the way to go. If you ONLY measure power at the wheels without measuring losses through a coastdown, then you could be chasing a power loss problem that you only "think" could be a fault with the engine or management. If a lower wheel power figure is shown, then that could be due to drive train problems or brake problems, wheel ballancing, alingnment, buckled wheel, etc, etc and not the engine. SO whoever stated the above, and I think I know who it was, should kinda know better.

[ShepsEvo3]

But if thats from Thorney then the power figure of 290 at the wheels maybe correct?

[maxfield]

But if thats from Thorney then the power figure of 290 at the wheels maybe correct?

Seems like it

[oakey]

It is not power at the wheels maxfield. My friend asked. They are flywheel figures.

[maxfield]

It is not power at the wheels maxfield. My friend asked. They are flywheel figures.

Are you 100%?

Because what i quoted says they measure wheel power.

Perhaps our friend is rong.

Not trying to cause an argument here

[oakey]

He has both wheel and flywheel figures.

and what you quoted says they provide a print out with both fly and wheel figures

[maxfield]

He has both wheel and flywheel figures.

and what you quoted says they provide a print out with both fly and wheel figures

Sorry only read various bits.

Sounds very strange

[oakey]

I am not trying to imply in anyway that Thorney Motorsport are dodgy. I personally think the car was down on power as it was only using 98octane fuel and may have needed a few mechanical tweaks.

[Royalratch]

But where on earth can you get fuel that's over 98 Octane?

[maxfield]

But where on earth can you get fuel that's over 98 Octane?

Tescos

[EndaW]

Shep, yes, mapping the m3 doesnt yield power below 4000rpm, in fact most modification takes place from 4600rpm with downshift in load and rpm rates coming from the blending of the mapping modifications.