Alpina B10 Bi turbo, this car is haunting me 11/2/15

[Jon_Bmw]

Simon. That is shite luck.

What you want to be really, really careful is that you clear out he entire inlet tract. Swarf and bigger particles have a habit of getting trapped in the rubber conical hoses. This obviously causes a massive drama on refit. Check intercooler as well. Ideally the end caps should come off, although not practical in many cases. We tend to cut he ally 'motorsport' ones off and then weld them back on after a full inspection. Not practical with plastic end tanks.

I wonder if the turbo oversped. Have a search online, it usually ends in the turbine snapping. Usual cause; too much boost or a boost leak.

[Morat]

That really sucks
Let's hope all the frag went out the hotside and not into the inlet.
Best of luck.

[Simon13]

I've removed the inlet today like you say Jon. It all needs a good clean blow out to be sure.

Barry is lending me his bore scope tomorrow at the ace. Hopefully no damage to engine itself would make me very happy as the mill is a good one.

[B7]

Ouch! I'm wondering how long B10 Bi Turbos and Babies go together after this?

[Andyboy]

Bastardos.


Wash the intercooler out with some engine degreaser. Pour it in, leave it to soak for a day and then give it a good shake, empty it out and hose it through allowing it to drip dry. Same with the catalyst - don't use petrol!

5 litres should be enough to do both. At least you haven't got shards of dead turbo in there. I'm steeliong myself for the same job on a 320d, but luckily the oil seal hasn't popped.

[Speedtouch]

This goes to show the potential for older hero chariots of expensive bits sh*tting themselves, even ones from posh homes which will presumably have been looked after well. No wonder so many end up being broken or epically bodged.

I guess you didn't expect such a major component failure after just 4 months of ownership.

And there's me, worrying about the brake light switch failing on my Morris Traveller after 43 years - puts it into perspective...

[daimlerman]

I blew a turbo on a Scania truck some years ago,my employer found bits of turbo embedded in the exhaust manifold,that's right,had travelled through the intercooler,inlet,chamber and back to the exhaust.He was not a happy bunny!

[gooner1]

Can,t offer any advice Si, apart from stick with it.

You always seem to sort it, for which you have my full admiration.

[Theo]

Having a T25 rebuilt isn't going to be too expensive so not the end of the world. Hope it's back on the road soon.

[winx]

Bad luck fella, not what you needed!
If you want to transport it to the unit to rest for a few weeks and do the clutch you are more than welcome. Fingers crossed the ramp will be back in on Thursday.

[E30BeemerLad]

Bad luck Si, hopefully she'll be back to fine fettle again soon

[Demlotcrew]

Bastardos.


Wash the intercooler out with some engine degreaser. Pour it in, leave it to soak for a day and then give it a good shake, empty it out and hose it through allowing it to drip dry. Same with the catalyst - don't use petrol!

5 litres should be enough to do both. At least you haven't got shards of dead turbo in there. I'm steeliong myself for the same job on a 320d, but luckily the oil seal hasn't popped.

Engine degreaser will attack the rubber gasket that seals the plastic end caps to the core.

It needs a good hot bath in a non corrosive solution, contact these guys they might be able to help.

http://www.aaronradiator.co.uk

With regards to turbos, you are looking at both being either replaced or remanufactured. The blades run very close to the housing, the slightest damage and one makes less boost than the other.

How does the Rob feel about this looming Bill?

[Simon13]

Hows he supposed to feel? We knew at this milege clutch and turbos were probably going to need replacing as they were/are original.

[Demlotcrew]

Clutch is not a worry, you've replaced enough of those.

The turbos are a different story, get on the Jap Drift forums and ask around for a good known shop who can repair them, for all we know they are custom made with Alpina specified compressor wheels in T25 housings.

[Kos]

Contact George at turbo developments who's website I linked earlier

He's fairly local (5 minutes from me) and you can drop the original turbos of to him and he will sort it

[Simon13]

RE intercooler its all alloy theres no rubber plastic on it i can see?

Crouch reckons Turbo Dynamics are a good place to use also. I might have a drive round saturday take the turbos with me see what they say get some prices.

Reading up about converting to roller bearings seems like a good idea Kos in everyway

I've had a good poke around with the bore scope Barry lent me, i can't see anything out of the ordinary, dents, dinks, bits of turbo in chambers or damage to any valves. cylinders 4,5,6 are a bit oily

Theres a guy at Alpina called Axel Rimpler apparently hes good guy to find out technical info. I could get his e-mail as ask tech spec of t25's if they are different at all.

[Jon_Bmw]

Matt waterman is pretty sound at turbo dynamics. They are all down south it seems; turbo dynamics, universal turbos, cr turbos etc.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about keeping it the EXACT spec that Alpina used. Stay close so that the engine cal is good. Things have moved on in the last 15 years I would have thought!

[Simon13]

indeed i've not got the money to go and get a pair of hybrid turbos made up or chase 600bhp. I'd love too, but if some modern tech can help the turbos and improve the way it drives, boosts then it seems its the way to go.

Sounds like with roller bearings it helps get rid of some lag, which it doesn't really suffer with but it all helps

[Andyboy]

Roller bearings will be more about how long it lasts.....?


Engine degreaser will be fine for washing out the intercooler - it's what everyone else does after a diesel blow up and they have plastic/alloy interfoolers.

[Kos]

Roller bearing turbos are more reliable, they were the key to having a reliable big boost turbo and they had a significant improvement on spool up

Now as technology has improved they are a no brainer and they don't cost as much

What will they do for the bi turbo, dare I say it they make it feel more like a NA engine and that hesitation you get between gear changes will go.

They will be reliable as well, not that the original turbos were unreliable but they will make it come resale time a more aggressive crisper engine

I've driven cossies back to back with identical set ups but one had a roller bearing turbo and it was awesome.

[pacerpete]

Roller bearing turbos are more reliable, they were the key to having a reliable big boost turbo and they had a significant improvement on spool up

Now as technology has improved they are a no brainer and they don't cost as much

What will they do for the bi turbo, dare I say it they make it feel more like a NA engine and that hesitation you get between gear changes will go.

They will be reliable as well, not that the original turbos were unreliable but they will make it come resale time a more aggressive crisper engine

I've driven cossies back to back with identical set ups but one had a roller bearing turbo and it was SERIOUSLY COUNCIL.

Fixed

[S38B38]

My goal is,, to replace oem T25 with GT2560R

[Simon13]

why?

[Demlotcrew]

My goal is,, to replace oem T25 with GT2560R

Any reason why you are staying with Garret?

[Simon13]

I've just got back from a turbo place in Brentford. He recognised the turbos as off a BMW, they've rebuilt a pair not long ago for another bi turbo owner locally! Who was upping the boost and had some hybrids built for ££. Also that the echuast housings on both turbos were both cracked and blowing. That its very hard to see, and mine was blowing in the turbo area but i could tell you exactly where They said upping the boost on these T25's on such a large engine means they wouldn't last very long as they are working quite hard as they are hence the need for a hyrbid. Would the stock turbos take 2 bar?

Anyhow converting to roller bearings is ££££ like £1000 per turbo as it needs a completely new housing as such. Fueling/mapping would be needed to be adjusted to suit the new character of the turbos.

I could get 360 angle bearings instead of the the stock 270 degrees whatever this means?. I've left the turbos with them to strip/inspect price up exactly whats what. At least £300 per turbo roughly. The wastegate on the front turbo he tested and is ok. Parts for these are NLA but they can make up the necessary parts to refurb them. As like a mong i left the rear turbos wastegate at home for some reason.

He also noticed a sticker on them from Universal. A turbo company along the south coast somewhere near southampton. Suggesting that these have been rebuilt before! They seem to have a drifter type/performance orientated websiate. Theres no evidence of this in the history of the car at all of rebuilds. I could tell that someone had been in this area of the car before. Maybe it just had some new wastegates? but i somehow doubt it

[Karan]

I assume these are twin t25 fitment with internal gates and 5 bolt exit turbine housings?

If so you can get roller bearing units in the same size...ie what you get on s15 silvias, and what. Used to run on my silvia at 300bhp 1.1bar 2 litre engine. What u need are 2 garret 2871r turbos with 0.64 exhaust housings. These will essentially spool the same as the t28r and even when running them at a low boost will give good power. Each one can do 360/370 comfortably so running low boost on these will keep egts down and it will be happy days. Had one on my silvia running 340bhp at 1.4bar for ages now and she still runs a treat.

Whatever u do just make sure you fit roller bearing housings.

[Simon13]

Yes 5 bolt exit with internal gates K. The guy did say or mutter that the rear of the housing was suitable to roller bearings i think. I'll await his call see what they reckon.

I don't want to get into remaps and dramas if you get me? The bro in law is dead against any mods what so ever






You can't really fit anything with a bigger housing? look how tight it is. Musy be only 10-15mm from the chassis leg

[Karan]

If its any use and u need a housing or something, I have one t25 here of a ps13 silvia. There's loads of knackered t25s around so if u have cracked housings try get ones which aren't cracked

[Simon13]

Ok, i don't know if the housings are or aren't guy reckoned they're very hard to see. I know bi turbos can crack the exhaust manifolds also, but i've not checked these either

[Karan]

In that case just get the, rebuilt with 360deg bearings. We've used turbo dynamics before not a problem.

[S38B38]

The rear manifold ALWAYS crack,, at some point.. ALWAYS,, afaik



the main reason IMO for using GT2560R ,,is it is almost a direct fit,, and i am also almost 100 positive that changing turbo,, require remapping the ECU

N.B,,,,,,,,,, the digital instrument board in the B10 BT,,,,,,, ALWAYS shows the boost + outside atmosphere pressure ,, and is 1.0 bar ((Porsche do that often)) so oem on full boost is 1.8 bar.. but actual pressure is 0.8 bar

when the engine is dead ,, have a look at the digital gauge ,, and notice ,, 1.0 bar,, before starting

[Simon13]

i did know this, 360 degree thrust bearing will give more oil in the vital areas. So seems a very good idea

[Simon13]

The guy also said the roller bearings on the t25 could take it to 600bhp or so. I'm not sure if thats with T25's or a roller bearing'd turbo of some kind

Big turbo = more lag though it seems. Which i don't want

[Karan]

Stock t25 at its most efficient is 250bhp per turbo....

[Simon13]

Right turbos are being rebuilt and having 360 degree thrust washers fitted also.

Ouch,