BMW MINI run flat tyres...

[tomson]

I hope that you are wrong. I've sent an email to Eibach UK to clear this up. If you are right i will be pretty peed-off as i would have spent my money elsewhere. However, i'm sure that it stated progressive rate on the box...

AFAIK Eibach E30 springs are not progressively wound, which is why I went for H & R.....

[Kos]

baz, you're reading between the lines. the bridgestone were only available through a main dealer............. fact.

interesting what your master tech said, be it would be interesting to actually get an answer from BMW GB. the way i see it, they may be designed with run flats as the OE spec, however which ones. i'll put it this way, the new M3 is optioned with Michelin PS2's ( ok it may not be but lets for a minute assume it was) now if you then change them for an EU, TUV, UK approved tyre that meets all the safety requirements, and fit it with for example a pirelli P zero which has different handling characteristics to the PS2's, different side wall stiffness, tread wear rates, will that void the warranty, be detrimental to the handling etc. ok its non run flat to a non run flat tyre but 2 totally different tyres.

so if we look at it in terms of going to regular tyres over run flats, and if BMW void a warrenty for not fitting run flats then thats just bang out of order.

i'll get on the blower to BMW GB tomorrow.


on the subject of run flats and their ride, i'me well used to harsh riding cars do anything will ride smooth compared to the cars i drive right now. i dont actually recall in this thread saying cars with run flats ride crap, however the general consensus is that when switching to non RF's there are significant improvements in many different aspects. that the what you hear from quite a number of people.

[bss325i]

baz, you're reading between the lines. the bridgestone were only available through a main dealer............. fact.

You didn't say one particular brand was main dealer only.

interesting what your master tech said, be it would be interesting to actually get an answer from BMW GB. the way i see it, they may be designed with run flats as the OE spec, however which ones. i'll put it this way, the new M3 is optioned with Michelin PS2's ( ok it may not be but lets for a minute assume it was) now if you then change them for an EU, TUV, UK approved tyre that meets all the safety requirements, and fit it with for example a pirelli P zero which has different handling characteristics to the PS2's, different side wall stiffness, tread wear rates, will that void the warranty, be detrimental to the handling etc. ok its non run flat to a non run flat tyre but 2 totally different tyres.

Changing from one brand of tyre to another is not same as changing from RF to non RF.

The construction of RF tyres is different to non RF so in effect you are changing the design specification set out by the manufacturer, hence potentialy voiding the waranty.

so if we look at it in terms of going to regular tyres over run flats, and if BMW void a warrenty for not fitting run flats then thats just bang out of order.

Not really, as stated above you would be changing the design specification. A bit like fitting coilvers in place of springs and shocks which would also void a waranty claim.

When i say void a waranty claim, this is if it were related to the alterations done. For example, if a top mount failed and the car had coilovers it could potentially be billable to the customer but if same the same car with coil overs had a missfire and a coil was at fault then it would not void that particular claim.

i'll get on the blower to BMW GB tomorrow.

Go for it but they will not recomend changing to non runflats on a run flat equiped car for the same reasons i have laid out.

[Jhonno]

I hope that you are wrong. I've sent an email to Eibach UK to clear this up. If you are right i will be pretty peed-off as i would have spent my money elsewhere. However, i'm sure that it stated progressive rate on the box...

AFAIK Eibach E30 springs are not progressively wound, which is why I went for H & R.....

You are correct, they are not progressive

[Kos]

i'll get on the blower to BMW GB tomorrow.

Go for it but they will not recomend changing to non runflats on a run flat equiped car for the same reasons i have laid out.

what they recomend is one thing, what is accepted is different

[sihooker]

Ok, here is the email i received/sent to eibach-suspension.co.uk.....


Dear Simon

Thank you for your email regarding Ebiach Pro Springs Kit
the kit is a progressive rate.


Kind Regards,
Ben Duberry
Sales Support
POTN.COM

Have I been helpful? Rate me here!



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On 23 February 2010 20:14, <simonhooker@live.co.uk> wrote:


Contacted: Eibach - product information

Product:
Eibach Pro Kit Springs

Car:
BMW E30 (Series 3) 1989 studs(4)

Comments:
Can you confirm that the Pro kit spring range are progressive rate, please?


simon hooker

[E39mad]

We used to own a 2003 Mini One from new (had it two years before child No 2 came along!). Std wheels where 15" on std rubber and tyre weld kit and we upgraded to 16" wheels which came with RFT - no change in suspension set up at all so not tuned for it.

The ride was crap especially when outside temp got below about 10oC as the sidewalls were even stiffer - they wore badly, punctured easily and almost ruined a fun little car!

Loads of 3 and 5 owners of BM's have ditched their RFT's in favour of proper rubber (also a lot cheaper at replacement) because of harsh ride, tramlining and lack of steering feel and in virtually all cases the cars were transformed. Shame the E90 variants has no-where for a spare as the E60/61 has room for a space saver. New 5 series F10 has non runflats in Germany but RFT's in the UK

If

[Andyboy]

My eibachs are not progressive.

That's odd. The pro-kit's are...

http://performance-suspension.eibach.co ... gs_pro_kit_

The pic of those springs in that link are not E30 ones.

These on the other hand are, 6 cylinder saloon ones i fitted to my sport.

I have also fitted 4 cylinder saloon ones to a 320iS which were not progressively wound either.

Both Pro kits by the way.



Compared to an M tech -15mm spring

All coil springs are progressive. That means that the more you compress them, the stiffer they get (progressively). That's the whole point of them. Leaf springs and torsion bars however are not. Moulton rubber cones on Minis are also progressive.
You're getting mixed up with variable rate springs. These are the ones that have the upper coils wound closer together than the lower ones, such as on the back of a mark 4/5 Cortina.

The idea of variable rate is that you use the lower half of the spring with widely spaced coils for ride comfort and when this is used up (compressed), the upper, closely spaced coils provide roll stiffness.

[pacerpete]

Andyboy, any ideas on the spring rates front and rear on a '73 scandinavian spec marina 1.8 TC in blaze ?
I need to uprate the front torsion bars and rear semi elliptics as my uncle Olaf (Curleys brother) needs to transport a Steinway

[Andyboy]

Dunno Peter, but the front rates for a '74 1.8TC Jubilee* (four door) are 345 lb/ft/in. That compares well with the bar rates on a lowly 1.3 Deluxe.



*Known in Sweden as the Maurice Mariana Torsionlanda.

[gooner1]

Andyboy, any ideas on the spring rates front and rear on a '73 scandinavian spec marina 1.8 TC in blaze ?
I need to uprate the front torsion bars and rear semi elliptics as my uncle Olaf (Curleys brother) needs to transport a Steinway

Would it not be easier, more asthetically pleasing,
and be less of a pollution to install an Engine in the Steinway, which has the better suspension anyway.

[stuartgallafant]

[quote='kos']as it stand the side walls seem to be too stiff...[quote/]

Thats the whole point of runflat tyre...

This arguement is crap and typical of what the zone has become.

Bottom line is Runflats were invented to satisfy the market the car manufacturers build for. They work perfectly in every other country but the UK, because of the roads. Dont complain like old women at BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc for using runflats, turn your attention and all your clearly unsexed aggresion to the government to spend our f*ck*ng road tax on fixing the roads

If you dont like them, dont use them, but whatever your opinion, BMW are not going to stop using them on their vehicles because a group of people on a poxie internet forum complain about them being harsh. As i said before, for the clientelle that BMW sell too, they are a great idea. Good for you if you want to cock around changing a spare wheel at the side of the road in your nice clothes, in the p*ssing rain, looking a dick... I'll drive past all uncomfortable in my car with my horrible runflats en route to a garage and let some other muppet deal with it...

[Speedtouch]

Dunno Peter, but the front rates for a '74 1.8TC Jubilee* (four door) are 345 lb/ft/in. That compares well with the bar rates on a lowly 1.3 Deluxe.



*Known in Sweden as the Maurice Mariana Torsionlanda.

I recently managed to bend a torsion bar on the Marina's predecessor, the Morris Minor, following a skid on wet leaves and a knock up against a kerb that stoved in the (rusty) chassis leg. Quite a feat, considering that they had survived 39 years prior to the incident:



Fear not though, Zoners, for the trusty Mog is currently being fitted up with a new chassis leg, engine bay panels, passenger side floorpan and new torsion bar

[Kos]

as it stand the side walls seem to be too stiff...

[quote/]

Thats the whole point of runflat tyre...

This arguement is crap and typical of what the zone has become.

Bottom line is Runflats were invented to satisfy the market the car manufacturers build for. They work perfectly in every other country but the UK, because of the roads. Dont complain like old women at BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc for using runflats, turn your attention and all your clearly unsexed aggresion to the government to spend our f*ck*ng road tax on fixing the roads

If you dont like them, dont use them, but whatever your opinion, BMW are not going to stop using them on their vehicles because a group of people on a poxie internet forum complain about them being harsh. As i said before, for the clientelle that BMW sell too, they are a great idea. Good for you if you want to c**k around changing a spare wheel at the side of the road in your nice clothes, in the p*ssing rain, looking a dick... I'll drive past all uncomfortable in my car with my horrible runflats en route to a garage and let some other muppet deal with it...

shut up stu, you really have had an overdose of the bmw corporate injection. run flates aree not perfect and do not suit all bmw clientel, especially the enthusiasts , and thats clear because the M power cars dont use them.


the technology needs to be further developed before they are an improvement over non RF's. currently they are too stiff and there are many arguments and many people who see them as detrimental to the experience of the car.


me , i wont be changint any tyres at the side of the road, i'll be uing a can of foam and then going to a tyre dealer who i want to go to and choosing the tyres i want for a much more reasonable cost.
re the roads, i blame the government, local authoreties and the muppets who vote labour

[bss325i]

Kos, not being funny but im failing to see how you are qualified to comment on this subject.

You say you have driven 1 car with run flats, a car which never came with them from new and was never an option on so i think its fair to say that doesn't really count as "real life" experience of what they are like to live with or how they perform.

As for limited availabilty, have you ever tried to buy run flats?

[e30topless]

as it stand the side walls seem to be too stiff...

me , i wont be changing any tyres at the side of the road, i'll be uing a can of foam

if you are using foam to re-fit your stretched tyre back onto the rim at the side of the road I would like to see pics please ?

[pacerpete]

as it stand the side walls seem to be too stiff...

[quote/]

Thats the whole point of runflat tyre...

This arguement is crap and typical of what the zone has become.

Bottom line is Runflats were invented to satisfy the market the car manufacturers build for. They work perfectly in every other country but the UK, because of the roads. Dont complain like old women at BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc for using runflats, turn your attention and all your clearly unsexed aggresion to the government to spend our f*ck*ng road tax on fixing the roads

If you dont like them, dont use them, but whatever your opinion, BMW are not going to stop using them on their vehicles because a group of people on a poxie internet forum complain about them being harsh. As i said before, for the clientelle that BMW sell too, they are a great idea. Good for you if you want to c**k around changing a spare wheel at the side of the road in your nice clothes, in the p*ssing rain, looking a dick... I'll drive past all uncomfortable in my car with my horrible runflats en route to a garage and let some other muppet deal with it...

What happens when your runflat gets a puncture at 3 in the morning , it's p1ssing rain and you are 250 miles from home ?

[Kos]

calling out bmw emergency assist is where stu will be, i'll be calling out the AA mr topless

barry, i have driven e46's back to back and there is a differnt in grip level, comfort, and they tram line to fuck and are noisier.

i have driven a number of bmw's and audis with RF's and they just dont feel right. its all about feel and confidence. however thats pushing on a bit in the cars. my cousins in Cyprus hves a 120d, and 320i (e90) both came with RF's. i drive the cars when i am out there. on motorways in the city, in the vilage and towns roads on twisty mountain roads with 1000 foot drops to kill you if you get it worng. so i know how the cars drive, however both would wear out in strange manner and they just were not confident in their cars. i recomended they but BMW's and the one with the 320i is there with his new with expensive new car that he felt drove in manner that would get them killed. the bmw dealers checked the cars over and said there is nothing worng so they come to me for help, now on my recomendation he switched to non RF's. my cousing who dives the 120d is girl who has no idea about cars also swithce to non RF, but they felt the defference and improvement when she switch to normal tyres.

its the back to back compasrison that counts, regardless if the car has been designed for RF or not. simply drive RF equiped car back to back on normal tyres and the differences is there for all to see. no there are countless post from 1000's of people who have prefered regular tyres on their cars. now are they wrong because they do not work for BMW or tyre/chassis engineers?

as for the subject of blow outs anf tyres popping of the rims, its a small chance of that happening if it is such major safety concern then it will be built in to the MOT's and be law to use RF's, much like it is in some countries to have winter tyres on.

as far as availabilty goes, there is a huge selection of non RF tyres to chese from in some sizes, where as RF's come in handfull of sizes currently.

i simply cant understand why you (baz and stu) and defending RF's all the time. have you
signed some sort of corporate contract to promote bmw's and RF on this forum?

barry if RF's are so good go and fit them to your tech2. and dont give me the shit thats its not designed for RF's because you have pissed about with the suspension and its not OE any more. what is the differnce in suspension set up for non RF equiped car to an RF equiped car, shock/spring rates, the geometary ? tell you waht barry, the diffence is miniaml in terms of suspension set up if any. back to your sport, its about feel and confidence. for example, its like the way you fit Contis to your car, you like them they inspire confidence they perform at level you want them to. will RF's do that ? ok, i'll play along for a bit here and say your car being old technology and isnt designed for RF's so go fit a set of non RF Federals. huge brand, very popular in some countries, but different to tyour contis. you wont like them, you'll say they are too hard noisy dont drip etc

to end the subject, people who know no better and just drive their cars on school run/commute and plod along the M1 just enjoy the convinience of RF's in given situation, but its not a solution. however some of these people have then noticed the cars improove when they revert to normal tyres. simply, they in normal driving they are fine, as are "budget" tyres on normal car. they do job to point and i'm not dismissing that but tyres are a personal choice and its down to feel and in back to back compasrison i say they dont feel right.

i'm not worng in what i feel, but you 2 fail to understand my POV. i can understand the benefits however they are not for me, not at this moment in time.
you can both bang on with your corporate/comercial reasoning because its no bother to me., it just doesnt work with me, my feel, my confidnce, my mind and my choice.

i hope thats somthing you can understand, you both people i know and repect your opinons but on this matter you are both blinkered.

i will give GB a call tomorrow and speak to some one who is very good driver who may be able to give his feed back, on back to back compasrison.

[E39mad]

If these tyres are as good as the manufacturer states why have the more basic 1'er and 3'er models gone back to std rubber and have RFT's as an option.

Have seach on BMWland about this - in particular a chap called Peter who is an engineer. There is generally 95% bad feedback on these types of tyres. Loads of people who are used to "traditional" BMW driving dynamics have avoided RFT cars in favour of keeping their old model or moving elsewhere - not good for business. It's like Swirl Flap ingestion lunching diesel engines the dealers pretend there is never a problem or never had a case - bullsh!t!

Invented for what reason - because some lard arse American can't lift a wheel brace or the manufacturers have no room for even for a space saver! RFT's have ruined what were great dynamic cars. The 3rd generation Michellins are out now apparently and maybebetter but avoid Bridgestones!

[Morat]

Runflats are an expensive solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[bss325i]

If these tyres are as good as the manufacturer states why have the more basic 1'er and 3'er models gone back to std rubber and have RFT's as an option.

For the last six months that i have been there, every brand new MINI, 1'er and 3'er other than M3's that have come through my dealer have RF's.

Have seach on BMWland about this - in particular a chap called Peter who is an engineer. There is generally 95% bad feedback on these types of tyres. Loads of people who are used to "traditional" BMW driving dynamics have avoided RFT cars in favour of keeping their old model or moving elsewhere - not good for business. It's like Swirl Flap ingestion lunching diesel engines the dealers pretend there is never a problem or never had a case - bullsh!t!

95% feedback on what, the forum? A very small percentage of total BMW customers i would say?

As for swirl flap ingestion not being a problem, dealers are fully aware of the problem as are BMW hence why the design was modified to eradicate the problem on later engines.

Invented for what reason - because some lard arse American can't lift a wheel brace or the manufacturers have no room for even for a space saver! RFT's have ruined what were great dynamic cars. The 3rd generation Michellins are out now apparently and maybebetter but avoid Bridgestones!

They were invented not just for convienience but also for a safety reason!

As for RFT ruining cars, what a load of shit!

Anyone would thing the cars were undriveable the way the arm chair experts harp on about it!

I drive these so called ruined cars every day there are still the dynamic drivers car they have always been!

[bss325i]

barry, i have driven e46's back to back and there is a differnt in grip level, comfort, and they tram line to **** and are noisier.

i have driven a number of bmw's and audis with RF's and they just dont feel right. its all about feel and confidence. however thats pushing on a bit in the cars. my cousins in Cyprus hves a 120d, and 320i (e90) both came with RF's. i drive the cars when i am out there. on motorways in the city, in the vilage and towns roads on twisty mountain roads with 1000 foot drops to kill you if you get it worng. so i know how the cars drive, however both would wear out in strange manner and they just were not confident in their cars. i recomended they but BMW's and the one with the 320i is there with his new with expensive new car that he felt drove in manner that would get them killed. the bmw dealers checked the cars over and said there is nothing worng so they come to me for help, now on my recomendation he switched to non RF's. my cousing who dives the 120d is girl who has no idea about cars also swithce to non RF, but they felt the defference and improvement when she switch to normal tyres.

Why when i asked you before why did you say you have only driven one car with RF's, an E46 but now you say others?

Yes they do cause increased road noise but that is negligable.

They do not wear any different to normal tyres so i dont know where your getting that from. Any iregular tyre wear will be down to incorrect inflation of miss aligned suspension/steering geometory. I see RF tyres at work every day in various states of wear and they wear evenly like non RF tyres.

its the back to back compasrison that counts, regardless if the car has been designed for RF or not. simply drive RF equiped car back to back on normal tyres and the differences is there for all to see. no there are countless post from 1000's of people who have prefered regular tyres on their cars. now are they wrong because they do not work for BMW or tyre/chassis engineers?

You say back to back comparisons are what counts but have you actually driven a car with RF's and then swapped to non RF's and driven the same car straight after?

Only that is a true back to back comparison!

as for the subject of blow outs and tyres popping of the rims, its a small chance of that happening if it is such major safety concern then it will be built in to the MOT's and be law to use RF's, much like it is in some countries to have winter tyres on.

No, it will never be built into MOT testing standards because an MOT is a minimum safety standard, that is all hence why safety restraint systems like airbags and seat belt pretentioners are not testable items but they unquestionably improve safety standards in cars just like RF tyres do.

Having an accident is a major safety concern but SRS items are not "built in to the MOT" and "the law to have them".

as far as availabilty goes, there is a huge selection of non RF tyres to chese from in some sizes, where as RF's come in handfull of sizes currently.

Agreed there is a larger availablity of non RF's compared to non RF's but RF's do not have limited availability and are readily available in many sizes and brands.

For example, there's more E46's available but that doesn't make availability of E30's limited does it?

i simply cant understand why you (baz and stu) and defending RF's all the time. have you
signed some sort of corporate contract to promote bmw's and RF on this forum?

Dont be so stupid Kos.

barry if RF's are so good go and fit them to your tech2. and dont give me the shit thats its not designed for RF's because you have pissed about with the suspension and its not OE any more.

Of course its not OE any more and even if it was, its not designed to work in conjuction with RF's.

When are you going to listen to someone who knows what they are talking about?! The cars with RF's from new have the suspension specced to work inconjuction with the stiffer side walls of RF tyres.

If you put RF's on a car that was never intended to have them then of couse its going to ruin the ride, just like it did in that E46 you say you have done a back to back comparison on.

Its going to work the other way to, if you remove the RF's from a RF equiped car the ride is going to get softer but this may compromise the handling characteristics.

what is the differnce in suspension set up for non RF equiped car to an RF equiped car, shock/spring rates, the geometary ? tell you waht barry, the diffence is miniaml in terms of suspension set up if any.

How would you know what the difference is Kos?

Even back in the 70's when the TRX tyre came out and was available on mk2 granada 2.8i's the suspension was altered to accomodate the tyre with different spring rates, damping levels and even bush compounds.

You think 30 years later BMW are just going to slap some RF's on a car and sent them out the door without any research and development then in turn alterations to to suspension to accomodate the RF's

Dont be so nieve!

back to your sport, its about feel and confidence. for example, its like the way you fit Contis to your car, you like them they inspire confidence they perform at level you want them to. will RF's do that ? ok, i'll play along for a bit here and say your car being old technology and isnt designed for RF's so go fit a set of non RF Federals. huge brand, very popular in some countries, but different to tyour contis. you wont like them, you'll say they are too hard noisy dont drip etc

So what you saying is try a different compound of rubber and ill see that i wont like it? Well RF's are not just a different compound, they are a different type of constuction hence the necessity of different suspension specs.

to end the subject, people who know no better and just drive their cars on school run/commute and plod along the M1 just enjoy the convinience of RF's in given situation, but its not a solution. however some of these people have then noticed the cars improove when they revert to normal tyres. simply, they in normal driving they are fine, as are "budget" tyres on normal car. they do job to point and i'm not dismissing that but tyres are a personal choice and its down to feel and in back to back compasrison i say they dont feel right.

IF it was such a vast improvement and IF RF's made BMW's that came with them from new SO bad then dont you think that there would be thousand upon thousands of customers returning their cars left right and centre in uproar at how dangerous their car is?

If it was that big a problem then BMW would be recalling cars with RF's

Yes there are some people that have switched from RF to non RF and will obviously notice a difference but the percentage will be low in comparrison the number of cars sold with RF's.

i'm not worng in what i feel, but you 2 fail to understand my POV. i can understand the benefits however they are not for me, not at this moment in time.
you can both bang on with your corporate/comercial reasoning because its no bother to me., it just doesnt work with me, my feel, my confidnce, my mind and my choice.

i hope thats somthing you can understand, you both people i know and repect your opinons but on this matter you are both blinkered.

To coin a phrase, "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has got one" but to make bold sweeping statement saying RF's are dangerous/ruin handeling/hard to get etc etc is just bollocks!

I dont know what your trying to get at with the whole corporate/comercial business you keep going on about but one things for sure, i am in no way blinkered to what BMW have set out to do or advocate! There are plenty of things that i dont like about BMW and not just in terms of the products but also as a company in some respects.

Now to really end this lets get something straight here!

I do not think that RF's are the best thing in the world and in fact before i had any volume of REAL experience of them i was indeed sceptical of them.

After gaining knollege and most importantly, alot of experience of them my perception of them changed.

What buggs me the most, and this isn't just with RF's, is when people make bold generalisations of something so basicly saying all of something is the same when they clearly are not!

This is why i got involed in this thread and this is all i have to say on the matter.

If you want to discuss this subject anymore we can carry on at the Ace on moday.

I'm done debating with the arm chair experts!

[Simon13]

Kos, not being funny but im failing to see how you are qualified to comment on this subject.

You say you have driven 1 car with run flats, a car which never came with them from new and was never an option on so i think its fair to say that doesn't really count as "real life" experience of what they are like to live with or how they perform.

As for limited availabilty, have you ever tried to buy run flats?

My brother in law had to wait 6 weeks for his run flats on his 57 reg 135i.

I'd be f**king pissed if i'd dropped 30 bags on a motor to only be able to buy the tyres from BMW who didn't have any, anywhere in the bloody world!


I've driven an e90, 1 series and the first generation mini. they all ride like a sack of sh!t and no better than an E30 on a 60mm drop. I've driven all said cars on more than 1 occasion am i qualified to comment?!

[Kos]

you must have spent ages writting that post up lol

i'll catch u on monday

[bss325i]

Kos, not being funny but im failing to see how you are qualified to comment on this subject.

You say you have driven 1 car with run flats, a car which never came with them from new and was never an option on so i think its fair to say that doesn't really count as "real life" experience of what they are like to live with or how they perform.

As for limited availabilty, have you ever tried to buy run flats?

My brother in law had to wait 6 weeks for his run flats on his 57 reg 135i.

I'd be f**king pissed if i'd dropped 30 bags on a motor to only be able to buy the tyres from BMW who didn't have any, anywhere in the bloody world!


I've driven an e90, 1 series and the first generation mini. they all ride like a sack of sh!t and no better than an E30 on a 60mm drop. I've driven all said cars on more than 1 occasion am i qualified to comment?!

No, thats no where near enough!

Were those tyres your brother needed bridgestones by any chance?

[bss325i]

you must have spent ages writting that post up lol

i'll catch u on monday

About as long as your post i quoted.

See you monday.

[Kos]

by the way barry, the one 120d had full suspension geometary check by the BMW dealers and you know what it was perfect. it still fuck the inside edges of the front tyres in under 6 months.

now its on normal tyres it drives much better, grips better wet and dry. more stable and more comfortable. you know exactly whats going on and even my thick cousin who knows shit all about cars says the cars improved

is she wrong?

[Kos]

you must have spent ages writting that post up lol

i'll catch u on monday

About as long as your post i quoted.

See you monday.

far to much cut copy and paste action

i know you've been itching to replay with your expert opinon to this subject, but it deffo took some time lol

drinks on you

[sihooker]

All coil springs are progressive. That means that the more you compress them, the stiffer they get (progressively). That's the whole point of them. Leaf springs and torsion bars however are not. Moulton rubber cones on Minis are also progressive.
You're getting mixed up with variable rate springs. These are the ones that have the upper coils wound closer together than the lower ones, such as on the back of a mark 4/5 Cortina.

The idea of variable rate is that you use the lower half of the spring with widely spaced coils for ride comfort and when this is used up (compressed), the upper, closely spaced coils provide roll stiffness.

Thanks for clearing that one up.

I'm a little disappointed (mainly in myself!) that i misunderstood the terms when i bought them, but happy with the way they perform, so all's well...

[Jhonno]

by the way barry, the one 120d had full suspension geometary check by the BMW dealers and you know what it was perfect. it still **** the inside edges of the front tyres in under 6 months.

now its on normal tyres it drives much better, grips better wet and dry. more stable and more comfortable. you know exactly whats going on and even my thick cousin who knows shit all about cars says the cars improved

is she wrong?

My mum's 120d is still on it's original runflats running the 18" M Sport rims.. 25k and counting over 18 months. No wear issues, and it hasn't killed anyone, handling is pretty good actually, would love one for a daily. So I would definitely say there is something wrong..

[Kos]

by the way barry, the one 120d had full suspension geometary check by the BMW dealers and you know what it was perfect. it still **** the inside edges of the front tyres in under 6 months.

now its on normal tyres it drives much better, grips better wet and dry. more stable and more comfortable. you know exactly whats going on and even my thick cousin who knows shit all about cars says the cars improved

is she wrong?

My mum's 120d is still on it's original runflats running the 18"M Sport rims.. 25k and counting over 18 months. No wear issues, and it hasn't killed anyone, handling is pretty good actually, would love one for a daily

i just didnt like this one , prefered it on normal tyres. could it be the roads in cyprus, saing that they are better than the UK's pot holed rubbish.

the road we drive on where the family is is twisty mountain roads, so maybe thats got something to do with it. just potering about the difference is minimal but it was frimer, as i sadi its when pressing on i really didnt like them

are you planning on putting RF's back on to it? be intersting to see your findigs if you use normal tyres

[E39mad]

bss325i - do you work for BMW or something similar because your denial about the characteristics of these tyres is almost laughable! The fact is when the ambient temp drops below 10oC they become uncomfortable.

BMWland, an enthusists forum like this one with experienced petrol heads and almost 50000 registered users is worth ignoring is it? Suggest you go and read fella!

I realise there are pros to RFT's - blow outs at speed etc however the downsides to these tyres IMHO outway the advantages.

You failed to comment about the change in characteristics of a car when changed to conventional rubber, and how died in the wool BMW fans have ignored cars with these tyres.

[Jhonno]

bss325i - do you work for BMW or something similar because your denial about the characteristics of these tyres is almost laughable! The fact is when the ambient temp drops below 10oC they become uncomfortable.

I haven't noticed this in any of the run flat car's I've been in..

[oakey]

A 5 fookin page thread about fun flat tyres!! If you like the idea of runflats and dont mind a minute change in ride comfort then use them, if you dont, dont

[Jon_Bmw]

Any chance of a copy of this 15 minute BMW RF video, I might pick up some more sales tips.

Unfortunately, 80%* of people who buy BMWs know little about cars and want one for the badge, they wouldn't notice if someone put half a ton of concrete in the boot, let alone the difference RF's would or wouldn't make. Hence BMW still sell them, in quantity.

The other 20% of people who like driving and understand basic physics magically seem to bitch about them on car forums and are delighted with improvements when changing to normal tyres.

*Take the figures with a pince of salt. Also, I have never driven a car on runflats, but I saw a 5 page thread about something extremely boring, and had to stick my armchair oar in.