BMW MINI run flat tyres...

[stuartgallafant]

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If your Cooper came with 16" wheels, which i'm 99% sure it will have done, it will be exactly the same setup as a Cooper S.

Suspension and everything else are all the same across the R50, 52 and 53, except the steering rack and ARB's in the Cooper S.

Sports suspension plus was a no cost option on the Coopers as long as you had a chili pack. Then it became a additional cost on every spec of £100 or £150.

The Cooper S's had sports suspension plus as standard and you had to 'opt out' if you didn't want it.

Yes, you are totally right, I forgot about the chilli pack and all the other shite!!

stu,

i wouldnt call the people who complained about the wheels cracking dickheads, if you or i had purchesed a car for 30 grand i'd like the £2000 wheels to last. i think BMW GB failed them in this case.

No, i would say its this shitty country failing people with the dire state of our roads despite the heavy taxes we pay! Its only this country that sufferes with the 19" wheel cracking problem AFAIK.

Barry, you are totally right.

BMW sell the Highline Spec in ev ery other country in Europe. England was the only country that had this problem. If you watch the Watchdog programme, a guy from Germany, not from BMW themselves, but from a manufacturing standards comany litigated the problem. the only reason people kicked off, is because its easier to scream and shout at BMW than it is to do so at the f*ck*ng useless government we have...

I bet not many of you know that Audi also had a similar problem with the wheels on the RS5 and ^ and the TT. The only reason that didnt make frontline news is because Audi, like pussies, accepted defeat and gave people new wheels and tyres, whereas BMW stood to the problem like Spartans and told the government they're money waste knob-jockeys... basically anyway! That would be cool if that actually happened!!

[stuartgallafant]

stu,

i wouldnt call the people who complained about the wheels cracking dickheads, if you or i had purchesed a car for 30 grand i'd like the £2000 wheels to last. i think BMW GB failed them in this case.

No, i would say its this shitty country failing people with the dire state of our roads despite the heavy taxes we pay! Its only this country that sufferes with the 19" wheel cracking problem AFAIK.

clam down barry

i've not heard of any other manufacturer having issues with big wheels and bad roads. i've run low profile tyres on wheels for years and naver had problems. there clearly was problem with the wheels. the 19's on e46 M3 seems to be ok. the wheels in question must have been a bad batch. it happens

admitadly the state of the UK's roads are shocking.

The reason these particular wheels took the brunt of the damage is because of the firmness of the sidewall in runflat tyres

In E46 rims, the tyre flexed enough to usually not damage the rim, but bulge the tyre on the opposing lateral sidewall. I've condemened hundreds of tyres for this. The runflat tyres are extremly stiff on the sidewall, therefore any impact is acted straight onto the rim

And if you thhink the roads are bad when in your in a car, get on a motrbike my friends... I've had countless near misses due to the state of the roads, so fed up of it now, im thinking about selling my road bike and just having a track bike

[Kos]

i agree the roads are a shockiing state, my roads got really bad recently and the police thought i was pissed when they followed me the other day !

i did notice in your post that the run flats didnt help the problem, but made it worse. another plus for run flats !

out of curiosity, to the M5 M6 M3 come with runflats these days ?

i have seen many buckeled wheels over the year and yes caused buy the shit roads in this country, but still a crack rim is a cracked rim and arguably far more dangerous than a bucked one?

iirc, i heard a story that bmw's would actualy set up suspension differently for different markets, is this the same with todays cars? i do doubt it as it would be far too expensive to do and develop shock and spring rates, but maybe they do have european set ups and north american set ups.

re driving on run flats, my views are as follows.

on an e46 comparing run flats to normal tyres, i'd take the normal tyres every day of the week, not only were they quieter, they gave more feed back , more grip, a better ride and more choice

[bss325i]

i agree the roads are a shockiing state, my roads got really bad recently and the police thought i was pissed when they followed me the other day !

I've had this problem to!

i did notice in your post that the run flats didnt help the problem, but made it worse. another plus for run flats !

That and 30 profile side wall and poor roads.

out of curiosity, to the M5 M6 M3 come with runflats these days ?

Nope! No M power or Alpina cars came/come with runflats because they are deemed high performance cars and run flats are not suitable for that role i would assume but the argument isn't what there suitable for, its weather they are crap or not and they are not! They serve a purpose.

i have seen many buckeled wheels over the year and yes caused buy the shit roads in this country, but still a crack rim is a cracked rim and arguably far more dangerous than a bucked one?

And i've seen plenty of other wheels crack over the years to including ones using non runflat tyres and 50 profile tyres!

One of my own cars had 17" momo arrows (back in my Escort RST days) with 40 profile tyres and one them got 3 massive cracks in it due to the shit roads.

iirc, i heard a story that bmw's would actualy set up suspension differently for different markets, is this the same with todays cars? i do doubt it as it would be far too expensive to do and develop shock and spring rates, but maybe they do have european set ups and north american set ups.

BMW did this with E30's as different markets had different spec suspension for example Jap spec E30 M3's had differnet spec suspension to European market ones. I couldn't say 100% for sure that this is the case now but i would say there is a very high chance that there continued to be variations for different markets.

re driving on run flats, my views are as follows.

on an e46 comparing run flats to normal tyres, i'd take the normal tyres every day of the week, not only were they quieter, they gave more feed back , more grip, a better ride and more choice

No E46's came with run flats.

[Andyboy]

TRXs used to be standard fit on renault 30 TXs, according to Trevor !

They only needed self levelling to be a world beater.

Ahh, the days when France turned out good cars. Renault 30TX, Pug 604, Renault 5 Maxi Turbo, Citroen CX Prestige. The days when the big Pugs and Cits could square up to a BMW or a Merc.

Aaaanywayyyyy..........

Runflats are bollocks.

Today I had a blowout in a 2002 Audi A4. "Fuckit" thinks I. Opened to boot to find a full toolkit and joy of joys, a correct alloy wheel and tyre. The carpetted boot floor not only lifts up but it clips onto the body under the back screen. A neat plastic threaded wheel holds the spare in, not some nasty 2p anodised wingnut and slotted washer. The Audi jack is also a thing of beauty.
Clearly, BMW can't match VAG when it comes to the neat details. It's actually a nice car to drive as well.

[stuartgallafant]

Runflats are not bollocks, theres a short video clip, about 15 minutes long, that was played to technicians in dealers all over Europe when Runflats were first introduced by Bridgestone on Porsches and then had their flame re-kindled by BMW. One of the scenes in the clip is a woman, driving an X5, gets a puncture, has to struggle trying to change the spare wheel and as she lifts the spare wheel from the boot, she walks too far back, falls over the armco and plummets 50 feet to her death as the dozey tart pulled over on a 'hard shoulder' on a bridge.

The video clip is a reinactment of an actual event that happened in Germany some years ago, which actually spurred car manufacturers to do something about spare wheels. The answer.... Get rid of them and use runflats

They serve a fantastic purpose, especially for the clientelle/market of a BMW owner. How many people do you know that want to change a tyre at the side of the road on their £40'000 5 series.... And of those, how many do you think would rather leisurely stroll up at a dealership and pay someone else to sort out their grief? Yes, they are expensive, but most dealers now do tyre insurance policies and believe me, when I worked for Coopers, the tyre insurance was an AMAZING deal. £15 for each claim plus £10 to reinsure the new tyre... You would have to be mental not to use it!

Another factor is that cars with runflats incorporate a suspension setup to deal with them. 9 out of 10 1 series use runflats. You get behind the wheel of a 120d M Sport model and tell me its a sh!t drive... They're amazing. I've got an E90 320d M Sport Saloon which has 18" runflats and I think it handles amzingly. If you wanna drive like Lewis Hamilton, buy a Lambo or Ferrari and cane that around, dont p!ss and winge about your tyres on your day-to-day chariot not handling quite right like you're Jeremy Clarkson nailing it round Gambon.... They're there to do a job and they do it very well

Off the top of my head, I think BMW still use the 'M Mobility' kit on M Power cars, but I could of sworn i've seen them on the new M3. Really not sure. It would make sense that they wouldnt use them, to deter people who have a puncture to not drive like a mad man whilst using a runflat!

[Andyboy]

What nonsense!

Firstly, I don't think anyone here has criticised the handling on runflats. Certainly not me.

Sure, your runflats might last 20 miles with no air before they overheat and go 'pop' but tell me, what happens when this occurs? You'd call the AA and get a patrolman to come and change your tyre - only you can't because there's no spare wheel.
So at 2am on the A90 going to Aberdeen you are completely and utterly f*cked. There aren't many BMW main dealers open at that hour. You are going nowhere and AA vans don't carry spare runflat tyres. So unless you're close to home, you are royally screwed.
Yes, runflats are a good safety measure but to not have a spare wheel as a back up is just madness. And if you can't manage to change a wheel without falling 50 feet to your death, you are quite clearly a f8cking idiot.

[Speedtouch]

Whatever happened to a good old can of puncture repairing foam/tyre inflator sh*t?
http://www.carbasics.co.uk/what_is_tyre_weld.htm

I used this to repair a bicycle tyre on a spare bike we had lying around in the shed, prior to my brother taking it across the road to sell it at a neighbour's bike shop. He was discussing the price with the shop owner when after several minutes, the tyre exploded spectacularly, showering the entire shop with sticky foam!

[stuartgallafant]

Sure, your runflats might last 20 miles with no air before they overheat and go 'pop' but tell me, what happens when this occurs? You'd call the AA and get a patrolman to come and change your tyre - only you can't because there's no spare wheel...

Rubbish. We've had customers turn up to have a new tyre that had done nearly 40 miles with no air in the tyre, she got to us fine, as she drove as we instructed her to.

Runflats are supposed to last for 50 miles at no more than 80kmph. If they didnt do that, they wouldnt be allowed to claim they did, as they wouldnt have passed the correct testing criteria, as Im sure you must know is very strict

...And if you can't manage to change a wheel without falling 50 feet to your death, you are quite clearly a f8cking idiot.

Our roads are full of them, which is why I worry when I have to drive anywhere. Ever heard the saying "I'm fine, its the others..." Quite apt when talking about some drivers out there now!

[Andyboy]

Sure, your runflats might last 20 miles with no air before they overheat and go 'pop' but tell me, what happens when this occurs? You'd call the AA and get a patrolman to come and change your tyre - only you can't because there's no spare wheel...

Rubbish. We've had customers turn up to have a new tyre that had done nearly 40 miles with no air in the tyre, she got to us fine, as she drove as we instructed her to.

Runflats are supposed to last for 50 miles at no more than 80kmph. If they didnt do that, they wouldnt be allowed to claim they did, as they wouldnt have passed the correct testing criteria, as Im sure you must know is very strict

Brilliant - 50 mph down a motorway for nearly 40 miles? How is that an advance on a spare wheel, jack and wheelbrace? Yes - runflat tyres are a good idea from a safety viewpoint and there's no reason why they can't be used, but to do away with a spare wheel is utter madness.

[Kos]

re driving on run flats, my views are as follows.

on an e46 comparing run flats to normal tyres, i'd take the normal tyres every day of the week, not only were they quieter, they gave more feed back , more grip, a better ride and more choice

No E46's came with run flats.

but i've driven one on run flats, i'm pretty sure the last ones came with a run flat option

an other reason i dont like them is that dont stretch well

[darkchild]

One of the scenes in the clip is a woman, driving an X5, gets a puncture, has to struggle trying to change the spare wheel and as she lifts the spare wheel from the boot, she walks too far back, falls over the armco and plummets 50 feet to her death as the dozey tart pulled over on a 'hard shoulder' on a bridge.

The video clip is a reinactment of an actual event that happened in Germany some years ago, which actually spurred car manufacturers to do something about spare wheels. The answer.... Get rid of them and use runflats

No, the answer isn't runflats. The answer is to use your f**king brain.

[Morat]

Whether or not runflats are more expensive, they ride like shit.

Thats a bold statement!

How many cars have you driven with run flats?!

Z4 3.0 and AMG 55slk. Both horrible on the useless roads we have in this country. I'm sure they're great in Germany/France where the roads are a million times smoother - even in the sticks.

[bss325i]

Whether or not runflats are more expensive, they ride like shit.

Thats a bold statement!

How many cars have you driven with run flats?!

Z4 3.0 and AMG 55slk. Both horrible on the useless roads we have in this country. I'm sure they're great in Germany/France where the roads are a million times smoother - even in the sticks.

Well thats not exactly a lot is it?

Was the Z4 an SE or M-sport model and what size wheels did it have?

[irish320i]

only driven one car on runfalts my 525d sport, when it needed tyres I tried non run flat tyres and the difference on our Irish roads was nite and day. It took all the harshness out on rough conditions. cant comment on any other models. though.

[Morat]

Thats a bold statement!

How many cars have you driven with run flats?!

Z4 3.0 and AMG 55slk. Both horrible on the useless roads we have in this country. I'm sure they're great in Germany/France where the roads are a million times smoother - even in the sticks.

Well thats not exactly a lot is it?

Was the Z4 an SE or M-sport model and what size wheels did it have?

OK, you go and drive 200 different models and report back on your findings. If you find that run flats are worth it, then bully for you. I'd rather have a spare tyre and a jack, and yes, I have changed tyres on the motorway before. No it wasn't fun but I'd take that over the compromised ride you get from runflats.

The z4 was a convertible, I didn't note the tyre size.

[bss325i]

I didn't ask the tyre size, i asked what size wheels it had weather it was an M sport or SE as these make a big difference to the ride!

I drive all different types of models with runflats everyday! I fix the bloody cars that have them for a living so i think its fair to say i know what im talking about!

My sport on eibach 35mm springs, Bilstein B8's and 205/50R16 NON runflats rides firmer than an E90 320d M sport on 225/40R18 run flats for example!

[Morat]

I don't remember whether it was the Mtech model or not. I'm guessing not, since the owner isn't really a hardcore driver, but it could have been either.

[bss325i]

A Z4 with 18's an M sport suspension rides noticeably harder than one with 17's and SE spec suspension.

[pacerpete]

Barry and Stuart have definately had the corporate 'injection', I wonder how it was administered ?

[Simon13]

I wonder what the ride is like on a Cooper S.

Sh!t, an E30 dropped 60mm rides better!

[Kos]

My sport on eibach 35mm springs, Bilstein B8's and 205/50R16 NON runflats rides firmer than an E90 320d M sport on 225/40R18 run flats for example!

will bilstien B8's are an uprated shock and iirc the eibachs are not progressively wound like the H&R's, but either way you are comparing a 30 year old car with a new car.

put run flats on your e30 and come back with comparison, or drive the e90 back to back with RF against regular tyres.

i for one do not believe that bmw's have valved the shocks and tuned their suspension set ups for run flat. simply in some countries they are almost unattainable unless you go through a dealer.

the suspension set up is designed to cope with different road surfaces, driving styles, loads and the tyres.

from brand to brand tyre side wall stiffness varies.

[sihooker]

and iirc the eibachs are not progressively wound like the H&R's,

You dont recall correctly. Eibach springs are progressive...

[Kos]

and iirc the eibachs are not progressively wound like the H&R's,

You dont recall correctly. Eibach springs are progressive...

well there used to be 2 types of eibachs available.

the point is they are up rated, and if barry put run flats on to his e30 he'd notice the ride seriously deteriorate

[bss325i]

My eibachs are not progressive.

Yes they would make the ride on my car worse but when they are fitted to a car that is set up to use run flats the ride is fine.

[Kos]

My eibachs are not progressive.

Yes they would make the ride on my car worse but when they are fitted to a car that is set up to use run flats the ride is fine.

but are the BMW set ups just for run flats, i'd love to hear the answer from bmw's technical dept.

but as i said the suspenstion set ups are designed with the many variables that face us in daily driving such as tyre brands, weight being carried, road surfaces etc. so swithing to run flats is not going to be detrimantal to the handling of the car however it does soften the ride some what

maybe in 10 year time, run flat technology would have moved on to the point where ride quality will not be compromised so much

as it stand the side walls seem to be too stiff and replacement tyres too expensive and at imes in limited suppply

[bss325i]

My eibachs are not progressive.

Yes they would make the ride on my car worse but when they are fitted to a car that is set up to use run flats the ride is fine.

but are the BMW set ups just for run flats, i'd love to hear the answer from bmw's technical dept.

but as i said the suspenstion set ups are designed with the many variables that face us in daily driving such as tyre brands, weight being carried, road surfaces etc. so swithing to run flats is not going to be detrimantal to the handling of the car however it does soften the ride some what

maybe in 10 year time, run flat technology would have moved on to the point where ride quality will not be compromised so much

as it stand the side walls seem to be too stiff and replacement tyres too expensive and at imes in limited suppply

Limited supply?! Dont make me laugh, they are sold in abundance through the thousands of BMW dealers and independants tyre outlets in the word.

I'll get back to you with regards to the suspension data.

[Kos]

Limited supply?! Dont make me laugh, they are sold in abundance through the thousands of BMW dealers and independants tyre outlets in the word.

I'll get back to you with regards to the suspension data.

as i said whih was confirmed by another techi.....

Kos, you mentioned that BMW had limited availability of certain tyres. You're correct, it was the 19" Bridgestones for the 3 and 5 series. 225/35 R19 92Y and 255/30 R19 94W are made by Bridgestone and only sold to BMW to release through the network.

what options did these valued customers have ? limited supply and choices too for run flats...........

[bss325i]

Thats just two sizes from one manufacturer at one point in time so hardly limited availability of runflats is it?!

There are many different size runflats from all the big names, dunlop, michelin, bridgestone, continental etc etc.

Plenty of choice!

[Kos]

4 brands, 4 of the biggest, 4 of the dearest, limited tread designs..........................................

and tyres only being availble though a main dealer, thats a monopely that puts customer between a rock and a hard place. not good from the POV of the man on the street

gona have to agree that we see this differently right now baz. i'm all for new ideas and development in terms of safety & innovation. but right now run flats are not quite up to it. i'm sttickng to my can of foam to get me home or to the nearest tyre shop

keep us posted on the technical info/ suspension data

[sihooker]

My eibachs are not progressive.

That's odd. The pro-kit's are...

http://performance-suspension.eibach.co ... gs_pro_kit_

[bss325i]

My eibachs are not progressive.

That's odd. The pro-kit's are...

http://performance-suspension.eibach.co ... gs_pro_kit_

The pic of those springs in that link are not E30 ones.

These on the other hand are, 6 cylinder saloon ones i fitted to my sport.

I have also fitted 4 cylinder saloon ones to a 320iS which were not progressively wound either.

Both Pro kits by the way.



Compared to an M tech -15mm spring

[bss325i]

4 brands, 4 of the biggest, 4 of the dearest, limited tread designs..........................................

I only reeled off four brands of the top of my head, im sure there are other brands.

Limited tread patterns? Those four i mentioned do the same patterns in run flat as they do in non runflat so not realy limited.

and tyres only being availble though a main dealer, thats a monopely that puts customer between a rock and a hard place. not good from the POV of the man on the street

Run flats are not exclusive to main dealers, you only have to goole "run flat tyre prices" to see that.

gona have to agree that we see this differently right now baz. i'm all for new ideas and development in terms of safety & innovation. but right now run flats are not quite up to it. i'm sttickng to my can of foam to get me home or to the nearest tyre shop

The difference is though Kos is that im right in what im saying in that runflats are widely available, dont give a crap ride when fitted to a car designed to use them and that they are a good idea for some situations.

keep us posted on the technical info/ suspension data

Just to end this, i spoke to the master tech at my work today and he confirmed my suspicions with regard to the suspension being set up/specced to work with run flats.

BMW and MINI's with run flats from new (pretty much all the current range bar M power/Alpina models) have their suspension developed to work with run flat tyres and fitting non runflats to a car originally designed to use run flats will comprimise handling characteristics.

Not only that but replacing RF for non RF tyres could also potentially void a warranty claim on anything suspension related.

Another point is notifying insurance companys about changing from RF to non RF. If someone failed to do that and had an accident then their insurance would become void.

Go to you local dealer and test drive a new BMW or two, you will see they dont ride crap.

[sihooker]

I hope that you are wrong. I've sent an email to Eibach UK to clear this up. If you are right i will be pretty peed-off as i would have spent my money elsewhere. However, i'm sure that it stated progressive rate on the box...

[bss325i]

You can clearly see in the pics that they are not progressivly wound!