Ok so have hust bought a load of speakers and just started reading loads of articles on ICE..... didn't really realise the extent one can go to though i should have guessed as i record music regularly,i deccided to upgrade as i want a little more kick from my current setup though not looking for any real low frequency bass/subbass as such just a little clarity/definition in the 75hz area as i find road rumble really knackers ths part of the "what yu hear" eq if that makes any sense. wasn't looking to spend a forune but dont mind a bit of diy to improve the sound at all.
Anyway i am just wondering about the mounting process - is the idea to create a sealed box around the rear of the driver or do i have it wrong?
and are these mdf spacers really that good? i presume the kick panel drivers should be angled in and up? and then the parcel shelf should be angled up and in!! by that i mean the spacer on the driver side parcel shelf should be faatter on both the rear and the drivers side of the ring whereas the inside and front of the ring shuld be thinner?
from underneath then do you enclose the driver with a box and fill that with the deadeing material?
sorry for all the q's, any advice appreciated
cheers
oh this is what i bought speaker wise:
http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h174/ ... =imgAnch32
http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h174/ ... =imgAnch26
installing speakers - few questions
Moderator: martauto
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placey
- E30 Zone Camper
- Posts: 1170
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: portsmouth
liam
if you can then the basic idea for front speakers is to angle each of them directly towards the opposite side front headrest. this is known as 'on-axis'. the main benefit this gives is that both front passengers hear the sound created by the fronts as if they are sat directly in the middle of the speakers, which of course they are not.
so one question answered - equal mounting on either side of the vehicle is what's required.
the main problem with e30 fronts being on-axis is that they then stick out into the cabin sufficiently to encroach on foot space for driving (kick panel location) or seat adjustments/glovebox openings (door location) so a considered compromise seems the best way to go.
rear speakers are for rear-fill and (unless you're setting out to win sound quality competitions) don't have to be on-axis at all. just a firm fitting to the rear shelf is more than adequate. the e30 rear shelf is unhelpfully curvy so some (glass fibred?) mdf mounting rings make a big difference and are straight forward to achieve.
mids require as much air as possible to provide a warm sound and mid-bass response, around the frequency areas you're looking at enhancing in fact. (75hz is around the bottom of the mid-bass area or top of the sub-bass area, this is about where a mid driver will hand over to a sub, determined by a crossover setting somewhere) i've ported my front mids into my door cavities and they work really well and provide a great mid-bass kick but it was a significant effort to achieve. rears have the boot as air and so work well so long as they're not stifled by metal directly behind them.
it's considered important to seal the front of a driver from it's rear - this is because a driver produces forward traveling sound waves during it's forward excursions and rear travelling waves during rearward travel. rear traveling waves allowed to leak past the front of a driver muddy the listener's sound. this doesn't mean it's necessary to enclose the rear in a box as mids (rather unhelpfully) are designed to work at their best with a good amount of air space behind them. so.....
so to enclose mids in a sealed box is not generally considered to be the best solution for mid-bass. (more usual for subs but dependent upon sub design.) mids are generally enclosed however due to mounting constraints. (door pods, kick panels etc) in this case use wadding - this has the effect of 'damping' (don't know if that's the right word) the sound wave a driver makes when travelling backwards, this increasing the amount of time it takes for that wave to return to the cone thus fooling the cone into thinking it's mounted into a larger enclosure than it really is.
cars are generally steel but speaker enclosures generally wood. in order for a driver to fulfill it's potential to provide volume and clarity it needs to be firmly mounted in a vibration free environment - any energy a driver expends vibrating it's mounting location or panels and fixtures around itself is not sound wave energy but is lost (producing distortion.) mdf happens to be acoustically dead and therefore an ideal baffle material for drivers so yes mdf rings are very good. the accepted method of deadening steel panels (to make them more speaker enclosure like) is using tar based deadening panels, the market leader of which is dynamat. see http://www.dynamat.com and in particular their faq area - it's most imformative.
hope this clarifies things a bit.
paul
if you can then the basic idea for front speakers is to angle each of them directly towards the opposite side front headrest. this is known as 'on-axis'. the main benefit this gives is that both front passengers hear the sound created by the fronts as if they are sat directly in the middle of the speakers, which of course they are not.
so one question answered - equal mounting on either side of the vehicle is what's required.
the main problem with e30 fronts being on-axis is that they then stick out into the cabin sufficiently to encroach on foot space for driving (kick panel location) or seat adjustments/glovebox openings (door location) so a considered compromise seems the best way to go.
rear speakers are for rear-fill and (unless you're setting out to win sound quality competitions) don't have to be on-axis at all. just a firm fitting to the rear shelf is more than adequate. the e30 rear shelf is unhelpfully curvy so some (glass fibred?) mdf mounting rings make a big difference and are straight forward to achieve.
mids require as much air as possible to provide a warm sound and mid-bass response, around the frequency areas you're looking at enhancing in fact. (75hz is around the bottom of the mid-bass area or top of the sub-bass area, this is about where a mid driver will hand over to a sub, determined by a crossover setting somewhere) i've ported my front mids into my door cavities and they work really well and provide a great mid-bass kick but it was a significant effort to achieve. rears have the boot as air and so work well so long as they're not stifled by metal directly behind them.
it's considered important to seal the front of a driver from it's rear - this is because a driver produces forward traveling sound waves during it's forward excursions and rear travelling waves during rearward travel. rear traveling waves allowed to leak past the front of a driver muddy the listener's sound. this doesn't mean it's necessary to enclose the rear in a box as mids (rather unhelpfully) are designed to work at their best with a good amount of air space behind them. so.....
so to enclose mids in a sealed box is not generally considered to be the best solution for mid-bass. (more usual for subs but dependent upon sub design.) mids are generally enclosed however due to mounting constraints. (door pods, kick panels etc) in this case use wadding - this has the effect of 'damping' (don't know if that's the right word) the sound wave a driver makes when travelling backwards, this increasing the amount of time it takes for that wave to return to the cone thus fooling the cone into thinking it's mounted into a larger enclosure than it really is.
cars are generally steel but speaker enclosures generally wood. in order for a driver to fulfill it's potential to provide volume and clarity it needs to be firmly mounted in a vibration free environment - any energy a driver expends vibrating it's mounting location or panels and fixtures around itself is not sound wave energy but is lost (producing distortion.) mdf happens to be acoustically dead and therefore an ideal baffle material for drivers so yes mdf rings are very good. the accepted method of deadening steel panels (to make them more speaker enclosure like) is using tar based deadening panels, the market leader of which is dynamat. see http://www.dynamat.com and in particular their faq area - it's most imformative.
hope this clarifies things a bit.
paul
i saw a doctor and she gave me some pills....
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liam012
- E30 Zone Camper
- Posts: 1424
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:00 pm
spot on mate cheers
so if i understand correctly mdf spacers are like 18mm acousticaly dead washers so to speak?
so if i understand correctly mdf spacers are like 18mm acousticaly dead washers so to speak?
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placey
- E30 Zone Camper
- Posts: 1170
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: portsmouth
yes - but mdf also comes in other thicknesses e.g. 6mm, 9mm, 12mm, 15mm etc. which is most useful for installation purposes.
additional to above real mid-bass sound waves are only viably reproduced by 6 1/2 inch (or larger) drivers. 5 1/4s cannot generally go that low. this is relevant for e30s as bmw chose 5 1/4 inch factory front locations.
paul
additional to above real mid-bass sound waves are only viably reproduced by 6 1/2 inch (or larger) drivers. 5 1/4s cannot generally go that low. this is relevant for e30s as bmw chose 5 1/4 inch factory front locations.
paul
i saw a doctor and she gave me some pills....
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liam012
- E30 Zone Camper
- Posts: 1424
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:00 pm
Thanks for the informed replies paul much appreciated-
glad i dont have to use the 18mm mdf!! would certainly comprimise kickpanel area!!
having read up on that dynamat stuff now looks wicked! i think i would love to totally do the boot the doors if possible and floor of the car.
would that be overkill? can you buy in bulk?
perhaps a couple of layers would it get rid of some of that nasty road rumble and leave me to listen to my engine or my stereo! while not weighing down the car to much.
pricey stuff though.
glad i dont have to use the 18mm mdf!! would certainly comprimise kickpanel area!!
having read up on that dynamat stuff now looks wicked! i think i would love to totally do the boot the doors if possible and floor of the car.
would that be overkill? can you buy in bulk?
perhaps a couple of layers would it get rid of some of that nasty road rumble and leave me to listen to my engine or my stereo! while not weighing down the car to much.
pricey stuff though.
-
placey
- E30 Zone Camper
- Posts: 1170
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: portsmouth
liam
retail prices for dynamat are 15 for standard and 25 for extreme per roll. (unless it's gone up since i bought it last) a bulk box contains 6 rolls and reduced price per roll. my strategy is to use standard everywhere and extreme around speaker mounting areas and this seems to work well.
the floor pan is already a thick piece of steel with bmw factory padding and sound proofed carpet on top and so is considered the least important area to cover. doors and quarter panels are large and relatively thin and so vibrate and the baulkhead is between the cabin and engine noise so these are most important - after speaker mounting areas of course. the boot is good to do as well.
it's great stuff dynamat. it's very difficult to appreciate the difference it makes until it's tried. it gives my car a quiet ride when the tunes are off and the doors a heavy feel and a solid thunk when they close - like a much more expensive car feel. quality.
paul
retail prices for dynamat are 15 for standard and 25 for extreme per roll. (unless it's gone up since i bought it last) a bulk box contains 6 rolls and reduced price per roll. my strategy is to use standard everywhere and extreme around speaker mounting areas and this seems to work well.
the floor pan is already a thick piece of steel with bmw factory padding and sound proofed carpet on top and so is considered the least important area to cover. doors and quarter panels are large and relatively thin and so vibrate and the baulkhead is between the cabin and engine noise so these are most important - after speaker mounting areas of course. the boot is good to do as well.
it's great stuff dynamat. it's very difficult to appreciate the difference it makes until it's tried. it gives my car a quiet ride when the tunes are off and the doors a heavy feel and a solid thunk when they close - like a much more expensive car feel. quality.
paul
i saw a doctor and she gave me some pills....