4ohm-2ohm retarded ice question

[mineralblue]

Can anyone explain to me in retards terms 2ohm and 4ohm on speakers?
My original speakers are 4ohm if I am not mistaken.
I have just purshased some JBLGT0507 speakers for my cab.
I discover the 4ohm on the box but 2ohm on the speakers and in the spec in the book.
Now I have fitted the front ones,but without using the tweeters or the crossover at the moment,just a straight swap(got to buy some tweeter pods). I am not very impressed with the improvement in sound(i.e. feck all).Is it because of the 2ohm/4ohm difference?Does fitting the crossover correct this?(I thought the crossover was just to split the sound for the tweeters?)Or have I vastly over estimated my ambitions of getting a reasonable improvement in sound from just upgrading my speakers?

On top of this, they don't fit in the rear speaker original position(tad too deep),so I have a set going begging............

yours faithfully

Nice but Dim

[secondtimelucky]

Right then, lets break this down into individual answers lol:

Can anyone explain to me in retards terms 2ohm and 4ohm on speakers?

99% of all car speakers are 4ohm, quite why yours are 2 ohm im not sure, very odd tbh. The 'ohm' is the starndard unit of resistance to electrical flow through a component, in this case, the speaker. A lower ohm speaker, in theory allows more current through the speaker giving higher output, however most head units and cheaper amps cannot provide this extra current as they are designed for 4 ohm use. You will see on some amps, 2ohm or 1ohm stable, these can power low resistance (ohm) speakers properly.

I have fitted the front ones,but without using the tweeters or the crossover at the moment,just a straight swap(got to buy some tweeter pods). I am not very impressed with the improvement in sound(i.e. feck all).Is it because of the 2ohm/4ohm difference?Does fitting the crossover correct this?

You need the crossover and tweeters wired up, end of. lol. A single speaker cone cannot adequately cover the entire frequency range of music, so, a system of two or more speakers is used with a crossover to split the signal. In your case you have a mid-bass cone which can only produce lower frequency sounds ie the bass/midrange, and a tweeter which handles the high frequency sounds ie, the treble portion of the music. My guess would be your getting a bassy sound without much clarity or treble output, get your tweeter pods in and wire the rest up, im sure you will be saying something much different about the quality

On top of this, they don't fit in the rear speaker original position(tad too deep),so I have a set going begging............

This one your own fault for not checking first


Hope this simplifies things for you

[mineralblue]

Cheers for that,much appreciated.
However I thought I would get bass more than anything by just wiring up my mid but it sounds no diffrent to the ones I had originally.I will bang the tweeters in and the crossovers and see what happens.
As for the rears,I know it was my silly ass fault for not checking first.Due to the fact I can't really locate the tweeters anywhere in the rear on my cab without cutting things(a no no for me) I might just go out and get a better set of 3 way for the back and be done.
Like I say I am not mad on ice I just wanted to get a bit more oomph and bass without filling the car with holes,speakers and amps.
Seems as if I am failing miserably at the moment

[secondtimelucky]

If your not happy with the bass output at the moment with your head-unit, nothing will improve it more significantly than a decent amp, just one four channel running all your speakers, you really will notice the difference

And your not failing miserably, you've followed the usuall upgrade path, most of us have done exactly as you have

[secondtimelucky]

Did you have any luck with this bud???

[mineralblue]

Hello,thanks for the follow up.Well due to lack of time and still waiting for my tweeter pods to arrive I wired in the crossover and tweeter on the right front only at the moment.I still think the bass is a bit pants,no real change from before,but I shall wait until both fronts are in tomorrow before I pass judgement.One thing though,much better with tweeters in(got the one just resting on the dash at the moment)Just need to sort the bass without going down the bass box route. My head unit is only a cheap one but should push 45W pc according to spec. However do you think I should get an amp to power the fronts better? If so where is the best place to mount it for front use only,under the seat?
Still got to sort something for the rear and put the spare set for sale or swap maybe..
Thanks

[secondtimelucky]

Right well iv spotted the problem already lol you say your head unit is 45w per channel, this is only whats known as peak power, usually very optimistic, and not constant, true or the industry standard power rating which is RMS. Your head unit will be chucking out 25w/RMS per channel at the most Whats the RMS power rating for your speakers?? Your best off getting a 4 channel amp though, not just for your fronts, as you wont hear the rears lol. And im sure you could mount the amp under your seat, never tried it in all fairness, im someone will have done though...

[mineralblue]

Rms on the speakers is 55w I believe the peak to 135 or 155
The Head unit is 4 X 40W max(as it says in the book,can't find a RMS)
I understand where your coming from on this,But I still expected improved sound from my new speakers or is it just because the head unit is shite that no matter what speakers I put on it,it will always sound shite.
Cheers
Morgan

[secondtimelucky]

or is it just because the head unit is shite that no matter what speakers I put on it,it will always sound shite.

Basically yes mate lol, think of it as if you were running an old tape deck through 1000pound speakers, its still gonna be crap really. The speakers will only reproduce the signal they are fed by the head unit, and 4x40w is pretty poor by todays standards, i think Alpine have got up to 4x60w head units now If your happy with the quality, just not the volume and bass, then buy an amp to run the speakers at their full potential. If its the quality overall thats not what your looking for then id suggest upgrading your head unit to be honest mate what head unit is it out of interest???

[mineralblue]

you really don't want to know

[secondtimelucky]

Im gonna guess anyway im going with either Goodmans or Ministry of Sound

[robbo86]

or is it just because the head unit is shite that no matter what speakers I put on it,it will always sound shite.

Basically yes mate lol, think of it as if you were running an old tape deck through 1000pound speakers, its still gonna be crap really. The speakers will only reproduce the signal they are fed by the head unit, and 4x40w is pretty poor by todays standards, i think Alpine have got up to 4x60w head units now If your happy with the quality, just not the volume and bass, then buy an amp to run the speakers at their full potential. If its the quality overall thats not what your looking for then id suggest upgrading your head unit to be honest mate what head unit is it out of interest???

The simplest thing to remember in this case is the nemonic GIGGO

Garbage
In
Gives
Garbage
Out

[Morat]

Infinity do 2 Ohm speakers and their amps can drive them. I'm guessing you might have Infinity Kappa speakers, but either way it might be worth looking up the Infinity amplifier range.

I'm no expert but THIS looks to be quite shiny!

[mineralblue]

JBL are the make and they are 2 ohm. I like the look of the amp but I think I will replace the head unit first. All I need now is the cash...............

[secondtimelucky]

All I need now is the cash...............

I know the feeling bud

[Morat]

Yeah. my ICE plans are being pushed back and back at the moment
I might have some decent music in my car by next winter at this rate!

[mineralblue]

Well due to me buying 2 sets of the above speakers 1 set will be in the for sale section soon
And to slightly change the topic will £200 get me a decent head unit to power the JBL's without amping them up?
I've started so I'll finish..........eventually.

[secondtimelucky]

200 quid will get you a very good head unit bud, just dont go for the one with most features lol. You should be able to get one of the powerfull Alpine units with that budget

[e301988325i]

mineralblue - 2ohm speakers will overheat and break/ruin any amp that isn't designed specifically to cope with them. And that includes the amp inside your head unit. I've never heard of a head unit that can run 2ohm speakers.

Any amp you buy for 2ohm speakers really needs to have an internal fan for cooling.

2ohm speakers provide less reistance but also less quality, this is why most home hifi system speakers are 8ohm where power supply isn't such an issue.

If you want quality sound then it's going to cost, but there are a few rules to follow to get the best out of you're money.

1) Aim the tweeters at your face, or bounce the sound off the windscreen.
2) Run high quality speaker cable directly from the rear of the headunit to the speaker, with no joins.
3) Magnet weight/size is a very good way of judging the speakers ability, check out vibe for VFM.

What's your budget? This will really decide on how good you can go.

Cheers Alex

[mineralblue]

Cheers for that Alex,
It seems I have boobed bigtime buying these speakers regarding 2/4 ohm. If 2 ohm are so "awkward" as it were in the speaker department how come JBL do these in 2ohm? The funny thing is on the box it has a picture of a head unit with the the sign for 4ohm underneath?
The magnet weight/size seems quite big compared to the originals I took out the front.
Is anyone familiar with JBL?
My budget was a measly 150-175 originally thinking a better set of speakers than originally fitted would improve the sound.I wasn't expecting miracles but I thought the old speakers would be a bit jaded after 20 years so I was expecting some improvement. I was wrong.
I spunked 88 on 2 sets of speakers so far,1 set unopened and I can see them going on e bay soon if I am going to then replace the head unit and or buy an amp too(as well as still sorting out some speakers for the rear. )

[secondtimelucky]

2ohm speakers provide less reistance but also less quality

This is not true at all, they are more difficult to power, as you say, but are no less quality at all, the only difference is the resistance and thats all

Mineralblue: I may be interested in a set of these depending on price, fire me a pm and il see whats what

[e301988325i]

JBL - Just Bloody Loud

[miniblob]

What the model number of the JBL's??? Quite odd to be 2 ohm - normally only top end stuff would be, and that's rare!!

As has been said, the source is number one - if that's poor, any speakers will sound poor!!!
If you get fussy, change the speaker cables for something better too!! (Maybe after you change the h/u!!)

Also, the quality of the installation can make a big difference!!!! Put a bit of soundproofing (dynamat or similar) behind the speakers.
And make sure they are very securely fitted!!! I often find speakers don't screw in tight in the E30's. Make sure, at least, that all 4 screws are holding tight - and it would prob be worth sealing them in too!! It should ideally be air tight - i.e. the air in front of the speaker should be completely separate (sealed off) from the air behind the speaker!!!
Also, the more solid the mounting, the better the speaker will work, so you could try cutting an mdf ring to use when mounting the speakers, that should help a bit!!
If you still think they should give a bit more depth, you could try putting a bit of wadding in behind the speaker. Basically it sort of tricks the speaker into thinking it's in a bigger enclosure, which can allow it to play lower!!!

All these factors together may make quite a difference - worth a go if you're messing about down there anyway!!!

HTH!!!