Touring sound system upgrade

[mrcool]

At the moment I have a sony tape/radio head unit and presumably standard speakers. Apart from radio, I listen to music through a tape > 3.5mm jack convertor. I have been meaning to upgrade it for a while. Im wanting to maintain a standard look and was keen on this HU (want USB)

http://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/product ... -24050.htm



Now, for speakers I was thinking components in the front and coaxials in the rear - just using the HU's own amp. Im not looking for award winning sound but an improvment over what I have and something that sounds decent - without spending hundrerds. I think the front are 13cm and rear 10cm but not sure of the mounting depths? (touring) Can anyone recommend some speakers which are a straight fit and will run fine of this HU?

I heard the Alpine SXE-1025S fit straight in the rear?

Is there an easy option for fitting the tweeters neatly?

Is it really worth going down the amp route, how about a sub?

[Blitz]

Thats a really nice looking head unit. Looks OEM.

[mrcool]

Thats a really nice looking head unit. Looks OEM.

Yeah, just what I was looking for really, pitty its rear USB, but I can do something about that.

How about speakers, I think Alpine SXE-1025S will do the rear, is it worth getting components, just the messing about for the tweeters thats a pain.

[charlE30]

Thats a really nice looking head unit. Looks OEM.

Yeah, just what I was looking for really, pitty its rear USB, but I can do something about that.

How about speakers, I think Alpine SXE-1025S will do the rear, is it worth getting components, just the messing about for the tweeters thats a pain.

I too quite like that HU, looks almost retro rear USB is easy enough to get around using an extention and just feed it out under the heater control panel

The rear pods are shallow and I've heard these Alpine units are a good upgrade and fit well, for the front it is worth fitting components.
Most will come with various fittings for the tweeters and you can just mount them on the back of the mirror blanks (or get some oem tweeter pods) I've done this and they work really well.

I'm only running what you've suggested from a crappy old sony HU and it works perfectly well for what I want. I did have a 4 channel amp running the 4 main speakers and another amp running my sub but really don't need it in the tourer.

HTH

[mrcool]

Thanks, Do you have any recomondations for a set of components (budget £50) that will run well without an amp, I have heard some componetns are designed for an amp and a HU won't drive them well?

HU says 2 RCA preout (Front+ Non-Fade) Does this mean it has a pre out for all 4 channels + a sub if I ever wanted to amp all 4 channels and a sub? The alpine rear speakers are rated at 25W RMS, if I amped them would it not be too much for them? I feel the rears are limiting the option of an amp?

After a little research I believe if I want to use the HU's internal amp I need to find speakers with a low RMS rating and high sensitivity?

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/produc ... d/506.html (alpine components)Would these be powered fine by the HU?

How about these coaxials for front, they have a low nominal power and high sensitivity? http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/produc ... d/505.html

[mrcool]

Just took the old sony HU out, it pulls straight out of the cradle and the wires go to a plug on the cradle. Does anybody elses E30 have a stramash of wiring like this. The old HU even has preouts,few inline fuse holders and some transformer looking thing (covered with black rubber). Is this some kind of suppressor which should be left in?



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I guess it will be a chop and solder job? I was thinking of removing the dash mounted fader too.

[TouringTash]

love the look of the clarion, most buttons to the left and keeping away from the stalk blind spot.

as for speakers Alpine are a good speaker for the price, sensitivity ratings on speakers are just what they say. The higher the sensitivity the easier the amp has to work. Always go by Route Means Squared RMS values when comparing different speakers along with the sensitivity.

I've been told that the rears arn't worth bothering with too much, another set or Alpines maybe?

As for amps even a small 2 channel one for the front speakers would pay dividends as the components can be bigger, run hotter and laid out in a way that cuts down electrical interference.
If you have the time to run the cables and fit a little amp even 2 x 50 watts RMS would do the trick, though 4 x 50 would be better. Make sure that you run a NEW and FUSED power cable for the amp and DO NOT TAKE A FEED from one of the cables with a live feed. Can end in tears.

oh and yes keep the surpressor fitted. looks from the pic thats the sony has been fitted well, not sure what your electrical level is but just take your time and if it looks like the pic when you're done and no connectors or wires are exposed all will be tickerdy boo.

sorry if any of this sounds like teaching you to suck eggs.

[mrcool]

Thanks for info. So would the alpline 13cm components above work well without and amp. I presume the 13cm coaxials would anyway.

I was thinking Alpine SXE-1025S for the rear as I heard they fit straight in. (10cm 25W RMS)

Also if I fitted a 4 x 50w RMS amp, with the speakers only being 25W RMS for the rears and the fronts possibily less than 50W RMS too would this cause a probelm?

[TouringTash]

You will have a gain pot/dial on the amp to arrest the output to the speakers.

to setup once all is fitted, turn the gain right down, set the bass etc to 0 (flat), turn the stereo volume to full or just 1 off, then SLOWLY increase the amp gain untill its maximum is what you are happy to put through your speakers. then repeat ith different styles, dance, rock or what ever you like.
Then turn the amp gain down a bit. Safe is good


The aim is to set the amp so that no matter how loud the stereo is turned up to, the speakers will not blow.
It is wastage having say a 2 x 200 watt amp powering a set of 50 watt speakers, although it is a good idea to have a bigger amp as this will give a better sound as the components within the amp have an easier time.
btw thats called headroom.

[Andy325i]

I have a virtually new set of pioneer rear speakers if your interested. Also a baby sub if you fancy it

[TouringTash]

a baby sub.



surely a submarette?



I've just undone all that good work.

The imp of the peverse rocks.

[Andy325i]

Lmao

[mrcool]

Question: If I get a four channel amp, can I asjust the front and rear seprately. Ie. more to front less to rear?

[TouringTash]

Its dependant on the amp if I remember, its been a long time since I played building systems, and that was mainly from Maplins (don't bother now as all the good stuff has looooong gone ie. eminance speakers:evil: ) but the clarion has two pre outs so you could have two little amps, put the second in the drivers side rear pod then you would have fader and balance control from your head unit.

I've now called the stereo a stereo, radio and head unit.

If you can find a couple of smallish kenwood amps it'll be cheap just use good cables and run the power for a rear amp on the other side of the car from the signal/speaker cables.

[mrcool]

So I have decided that I pretty much need an amp, if only because it will produce a better sound than the limited inbuilt amp. It seems most 4ch amp have 2 if not 4 "input level" controls (so front and rear can be adjusted seprately) with 4 RCA inputs, I take it I would run 4 RCA's from the clarion. Its spec states: 2 RCA preout (Front+ Non-Fade) what does that mean?

So my system will probely look something like this:
*Clarion HU as above (ordered)
*Alpine SXE-1025S 10cm rears coaxial (25W RMS)
*Front SXE-1350S - 13cm (30W RMS) components
*Amp as below?

I have seen a few amps in my price range I am keen on, I have purposely choosen a few with a lower RMS. There is no point in having a large 4 x 100 RMS amp to power speakers with a 1/4 of that. I don't need really loud just good quality sound and Im sure any small amp will provide this over the HU

*Kenwood: KAC-6404 4 x 40 W RMS at 4ohm
*JBL GTO-4000 4 x 50w RMS at 4ohm
*I also have my eye on a second hand Soundstream Rubicon RUB4.500 4 x 75W RMS at 4 ohm
*pushing the budget - a wee 40W alpine

opinions on these?

[mrcool]

I have a virtually new set of pioneer rear speakers if your interested. Also a baby sub if you fancy it

Models? ta

Also, if anyone can suggest any better speakers in a similar price range than I have suggested feel free to say. Thanks

[TouringTash]

Its 4 RCA inputs in total so 2 pairs?
By the sounds of it the clarion can fade the front output but not the rear. This is helpfull if the rear output goes to an amp or crossover that has a bass driver connected as well as rear speakers.
Now if you did buy the bits from Andy then either get an amp that has outputs (to the speakers) for a bass driver as well as the rear speakers along with built-in cross-over switching to adjust the frequencies going to the speaker, or you could go down the route of an active cross-over, but then you would need 1 amp for front, 1 for rears AND 1 for the bass driver.
Remeber this is about quality 1st and if set up well would give you a great sound, but its three amps.
Choices, choices eh?

best of luck fella

[mrcool]

Yeah 2 sets of inputs. Like this:



I was thinking along the lines of 1 4ch amp and 4 speakers. Without a sub and if need be could add a sub later eithier active or with a mono amp? Seems easier than having 2 seperate amps for front/rear?? I wasn't even planning an amp to begin with tbh, but just get carried away.

Im just learning as I go at the moment. How does setting up crossovers work with an amp, I keep reading of amps with crossover, is that something else, Would I still just use the wee crossover that comes with the speakers? and set the amp to full range.

[TouringTash]

Yeah 2 sets of inputs. Like this:



I was thinking along the lines of 1 4ch amp and 4 speakers. Without a sub and if need be could add a sub later eithier active or with a mono amp? Seems easier than having 2 seperate amps for front/rear?? I wasn't even planning an amp to begin with tbh, but just get carried away.

A good Idea, though If you are going to put the amp in the rear, might as well run the second pair of line cables (RCA ends) to future proof.

Im just learning as I go at the moment. How does setting up crossovers work with an amp, I keep reading of amps with crossover, is that something else, Would I still just use the wee crossover that comes with the speakers? and set the amp to full range.

The cross overs in an amp allow you to set the frequency range for that output.
Separate cross-overs are either Passive (have no power, just the speaker wires connected to these) like the ones for tweeters or active, you run power to thes and they give you better control over the outputs, and again like a seperate amp it will sound better.

Remeber that all this extra equipment needs to have the cable and fuse ratings worked out.

Just get all the power (Watts) rating of the equipment not the output of the amp the consumption of it. As you'll need this to work out your fuse and cable sizes. You should also think about what you may add in the future and factor this into the power cable size as these arn't cheap if running to the rear and you'll only want to do it once.

Best of luck.

[TouringTash]

what did you go for in the end fella?

Finally getting round to sorting out mine