s38 conversion or s50?

Post Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:09 pm

Not sure if this has been asked to death so if it has then apologies!!

Even though I haven't finished my current 335i touring project I have been thinking about something a bit quicker!!

Just wondering which route to go down, M5 engine, or M3??
Don't care about fuel economy so that wont be an issue, main concern is overall cost comparison and the amount of work involved??

Any opinions welcome, sorry again if its been posted already!!

Cheers!

Post Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:46 pm

m3 for ease of conversion. as you can buy manifolds to make them fit. and you wont have any bonnet clearance issues.

Post Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:04 pm

s50 is easier,
and lighter
s38 however feels a bit stronger bottom end and mid range and sounds nicer i think, but then i am biased

Post Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:52 pm

S38 is basically M30 with ITB:s, S50 is newer, more silent and much more fuel efficient.

Both are good options, choose the one that's easier for you to find with all the bits you need.

Post Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:54 pm

how is an s38 just an m30 with ITBs

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:31 am

Karan wrote:sounds nicer i think, but then i am biased

Yeah it was looking at your build thread that got me thinking about the s38!! I cant imagine how quick that must be??!

I have seen a few M5's under 3k so was thinking about buying the whole donor car. Any major headaches or pitfalls I should be aware of?

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:26 am

manifold will need to be custom made-1-1.5k, closer to 2k if you get a whole system made. If you can do this yourself and do it well would save a lot.

custom rad to go in the front panel, custom prop and gear linkages,

need to drop subframe with spacers 20mm to get bonnet to close.

otherwise pretty similar.

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:37 pm

Karan wrote:how is an s38 just an m30 with ITBs

Well, maybe i made it sound too much that they're the same which they of course are not. Block is almost the same, as are also the engine dimensions (S38 is DOHC) but anyways, fitting S38 is pretty much the same as fitting M30. Only additional problem is brakebooster, everything else is almost as with M30.

Same way S50 is the same as M50, and also in this case plenum interferes with brakebooster. Once again, everything else is as with M50.

IMHO fitting S50 is the easier option, but S38 has more guts

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:44 pm

Karan wrote:custom rad to go in the front panel, custom prop and gear linkages,

need to drop subframe with spacers 20mm to get bonnet to close.

otherwise pretty similar.

Custom prop and gear linkages are pretty straightforward.

How come you need to drop subframe or put the radiator to front panel?

For example here is S38 in E30 with e28 radiator and www.300mm.de motor mounts, no need to drop the subframe etc..

Anyways, there are so many ways to do things as there are builders.

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:50 pm

That's made my mind up......

I'm painting my S50 cam cover and plenum body coloured (lachs silber) and the raised logo black.....

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:37 pm

hmmmm i used .de mounts and had to drop subframe

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:39 pm

Karan wrote:hmmmm i used .de mounts and had to drop subframe

I would imagine as both Hartge and you have had to drop the subframe that is a definate then!

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:44 pm

Jonsku wrote:
Karan wrote:custom rad to go in the front panel, custom prop and gear linkages,

need to drop subframe with spacers 20mm to get bonnet to close.

otherwise pretty similar.
Custom prop and gear linkages are pretty straightforward.

How come you need to drop subframe or put the radiator to front panel?

For example here is S38 in E30 with e28 radiator and www.300mm.de motor mounts, no need to drop the subframe etc..

Anyways, there are so many ways to do things as there are builders.

yeh thats an e28 m5 rad using e28 m5 thermostat housing which is ok if you can find the parts, expensive if you want to buy new

i decided to retain the e34 m5 plumbing and to give more space in front of engine for inspection and tidyness i decided to get a small deep core rad made to go in the front panel, which seems to cope with temps fine.

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:45 pm

that subframe looks dropped to me

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:45 pm

How much was the rad mate? Who made it? Just trying to weigh things up so I can start saving!

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:47 pm

jay1980 wrote:How much was the rad mate? Who made it? Just trying to weigh things up so I can start saving!

about Ã‚£400 plus Ã‚£100 for a heavy duty fan

let me know when you want one as i may upgrade to a different design as i will be cutting up my front panel area to place a different design rad and intercooler for possibly going turbo

cheers
Karan

Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:07 pm

Karan wrote:Karan

Well, i haven't done the S38 swap myself but from what i've read i've never notived anyone saying that they'd had to drop the subframe or put the radiator further front.

Anyways, no point arguing which way to do the swap. You've done - you know how it goes

Post Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:43 am

Jonsku wrote:
Karan wrote:Karan
Well, i haven't done the S38 swap myself but from what i've read i've never notived anyone saying that they'd had to drop the subframe or put the radiator further front.

Anyways, no point arguing which way to do the swap. You've done - you know how it goes

i believe you as when i was doing it i thought i wouldnt have to drop it either as some conversions i have seen on the net abroad don't seem to do it??

heres a pic of mine without droppoing subframe.... there was only about 1 cm clearance required if i remember correctly