what is the highest power figure that has been recorded from an m20 2.7, obviously money is the deciding factor.
doesnt Oz's car produce 230-240 with a not to wild cam?
also i take it that the wilder the cam the more power produced but less dirveabilty,
also running ITB's is a must along with lightning an balencing along with strenghtning inside the block.
also exhaust systems are going to play a major part when tunning to a high n/a figure i.e straight through pipes, size of silencers etc?
and if im correct in thinking the best way to achieve a high power figure is to use a 324td crank as explained in 'Andyboys' 2.7 thread?
any suggestions are welcome
how to build a powerful 2.7? most powerful built?
Moderator: martauto
hmm, need some detailed information on how i could achieve 250 bhp on a 2.7m20, i.e cams, headwork, bottom end work etc. mapping,
as i wantg to start buying parts i.e cams etc and dont want to waste time and money, as they do it right the first time.
as i wantg to start buying parts i.e cams etc and dont want to waste time and money, as they do it right the first time.
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
you saying an m50 Jamie, nah wanna keep the heart of my car as as bmw intended to a degree, i.e m20 not m50 after thinking about it for a while. plus i have a nice 2.5 to build from think why not, its all in the car and has cost me £50 so far so leaves me a nice wad of cash to spend on the m20 instead of what it would cost for an m50 conversion
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
but isnt oakeys an eta bottom end?
kinda confussed as to what builds what best etc.
i take it at that cams, and headwork will play a major part in what power is produced
kinda confussed as to what builds what best etc.
i take it at that cams, and headwork will play a major part in what power is produced
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
was thinking 288 cams 
driveabity wont be to good but once moving would be awesome.
nice Haywood and scott exhaust and manifold probally only consisting of just a rear silencer.
as you can tell quite new to how it all works etc
driveabity wont be to good but once moving would be awesome.nice Haywood and scott exhaust and manifold probally only consisting of just a rear silencer.
as you can tell quite new to how it all works etc
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
If your going to build a 250hp 2.7 then your about to spend so much money and getting so little in return.
T3 turbo setup and no 2.7 or any NA M20 will seem fun.
You should be looking into about 6-7-8psi on a T3 sized turbo(HX30/GT28RS/T28/GT25)
and lightning spool.
T3 turbo setup and no 2.7 or any NA M20 will seem fun.
You should be looking into about 6-7-8psi on a T3 sized turbo(HX30/GT28RS/T28/GT25)
and lightning spool.
I can't see it effecting it that much as the M20's a pretty torquey engine.
For more power you need more revs. So everything will have to be lighter and balanced. And then will need a higher lift cam so the power doesn't drop off.
For more power you need more revs. So everything will have to be lighter and balanced. And then will need a higher lift cam so the power doesn't drop off.
problem i have with dforced induction is i will break it! atleast staying n/a i will hold some reliabilty to a degree, alot of turbo cars ive read about and seen have had problems, i want to be able to get in it, rape it, lock it up, and then repeat. etc, obviously servicing etc.
also i want to do alot of the work myself something i cant do with a turbo set-up as i know even less about them than i do with n/a tunning.
also i want to do alot of the work myself something i cant do with a turbo set-up as i know even less about them than i do with n/a tunning.
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
An 8000 rpm 2.7 litre M20 that makes 250 bhp will never be as reliable as a stock M20B25 running 0.5 bar boost with a decently sized turbo, sans intercooler even. With the N/A option - the M20 valve train is a really weak link, a long with greater inertial loads.
Either way you look at it, you won't be running Motronic and either route requires tuning for longevity.
Either way you look at it, you won't be running Motronic and either route requires tuning for longevity.
Last edited by iXer_SE on Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
you can just as easily destroy your NA car as a FI car.1an wrote:problem i have with dforced induction is i will break it! atleast staying n/a i will hold some reliabilty to a degree, alot of turbo cars ive read about and seen have had problems, i want to be able to get in it, rape it, lock it up, and then repeat. etc, obviously servicing etc.
also i want to do alot of the work myself something i cant do with a turbo set-up as i know even less about them than i do with n/a tunning.
There is no more reliability in 250hp 2.7 then a 250hp 2.5 turbo
250hp from a 2.7 is not going to leave anything in the low end.
nothing will be there. There is some left behind on a 4valve engine but not a 2valve engine. Why? Because you are going to have to shift the torque curve.
Any 2.7 should make at best about 300nm torque which in itself is really high for a 2.7, from there you have to get those 300nm´s to go higher to create the hp you want.
here max torque is at around 4k, with maximum power beeing at 5300.
That´s 268nm torque at 5,3k. to turn 268nm into 250hp you need it at 6700rpm. That´s a complete torque curve move of 1400rpms.
And if you look at the graph, torque at 2500rpm will not be at 3900rpm.
guess what the torque is going to be like below 3k?
This is not going to be a win win situation.
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Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member
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Depends whether the probe goes up your car's exhaust, or one parked along side it!Simon13 wrote:288 cams and mot's......
Brianmoooore wrote:Depends whether the probe goes up your car's exhaust, or one parked along side it!Simon13 wrote:288 cams and mot's......
Gunni, i kinda understand what your saying
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
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daimlerman
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How deep is your pocket? 180-200bhp will cost around £2000.Each single bhp added to that will cost around £10. The best improvment to an M20 is to add capacity.Starting with a 325i the easiest way is to follow Jassman's lead. As Gunni has shown,when you get above 230ish bhp the car becomes difficult to drive on the road. 2.7/8s are all about drivability and torque,torque is what fires a car out of a corner,bhp is what you brag about down the pub. The difficult/expensive part of the Maxfield route is the exhaust and the electrical work,if you can fabricate your own exhaust manifold and solve the wiring you are home and dry....
Youth is wasted on the young.
there isnt a chance im going to build a 2.8, its 2.7 or nothing really to be honest, obviously the car will need a standalone which ill have done by Ant.
its not going to happend over night thats for sure it will be over a period hence why im findig out what parts etc to make a nice powerful 2.7,
its not going to happend over night thats for sure it will be over a period hence why im findig out what parts etc to make a nice powerful 2.7,
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
The ETA crank is more then up to the job.
Have a read of this >> http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/M20_ ... ochure.pdf
Have a read of this >> http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/M20_ ... ochure.pdf
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HairyScreech
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thats what i was thinking,Jhonno wrote:why not a 2.8 1an? its less work than a 2.7 for more power..
m50 crank, some 320 rods and a crank spacer. bobs your mothers brother.
2.8 development thread http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=170822
m3.3.1 m20 thread - now running, chip needed - any volunteers?
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... =viewtopic&
m3.3.1 m20 thread - now running, chip needed - any volunteers?
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... =viewtopic&
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oldroydsr4
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Shouldn't you get used to a standard 2.5 before you go for a tuned 2.7, after all i doubt the 1.6 set the world a light.
Also how do you expect to get insured on it at 18
Also how do you expect to get insured on it at 18
got a standard 2.5 plusw getting insured isnt a problem,
and im not going the 2.8 way as from what ive thread its equally as much work to build an engine that wont rev like a 2.7,
and im not going the 2.8 way as from what ive thread its equally as much work to build an engine that wont rev like a 2.7,
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
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Simon13
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2.8 has the same bore and stroke correct? so it's a square engine - i've never read anything about the character of this. Theres plenty to read on over or under square lumps
As to saying they don't rev like a 2.7 thats rubbish E30Adams 2.8 revved very well
if you can find some alpina pistons you can use these with an eta/td crank and 325i rods and off you go, no decking or vernier pulleys needed
As to saying they don't rev like a 2.7 thats rubbish E30Adams 2.8 revved very well
if you can find some alpina pistons you can use these with an eta/td crank and 325i rods and off you go, no decking or vernier pulleys needed
not disbuting what your saying but how can a 2.7 and a 2.8 have the same bore and stroke?Simon13 wrote:2.8 has the same bore and stroke correct? so it's a square engine - i've never read anything about the character of this. Theres plenty to read on over or under square lumps
As to saying they don't rev like a 2.7 thats rubbish E30Adams 2.8 revved very well
if you can find some alpina pistons you can use these with an eta/td crank and 325i rods and off you go, no decking or vernier pulleys needed
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.