E36 M3 Throttle Body into M30

[kabeer]

Hi to all M30 owners,

I've seen some of the M30 fitted with ITB from various M's. planning to do this mode, but which Mseries is easy to fit on M30 ?
which are the parts required from E36 M3 and parts discarded from M30 assuming that i'm using a E36 M3 TB ?
What are the pro & cons in this set-up ?
can i use a ford mustang injectoers along with this set-up?

would appreciate a quick response.....
cheers

[e21Jason]

Hi

You eihter need a weber manifold and jenvy throttle bodies, or an m5 inlet manifold with far bigger than you need throttle bodies, the e36 ones are spaced at 90mm, the m5 are 100mm spaced which is what you need for the m30

Otherwise atliss or bog brothers for a manifold to use bike throttle bodies.

Jason

[kabeer]

Otherwise atliss or bog brothers for a manifold to use bike throttle bodies.
Jason

Thank u for the input. i just lost a e-bay bidding for E28 M5/E24 M6 Tbs.
Which s the suitable TBs from bike? hayabusa? again to attach another one more sets to make 6.
Can M3/M5 MAF be used to replace M30's AFM ?

sorry to bug you..

[handpaper]

GSX-R 600 TBs seem to be the unit of choice; about the right size and fairly cheap (£100-£150 a set)
You're going to be wasting your time using any form of MAF/AFM with ITBs, go for a decent standalone ECU (Megasquirt, Emerald etc.) that can map with a TPS and EGO.

[kabeer]

GSX-R 600 TBs seem to be the unit of choice; about the right size and fairly cheap (£100-£150 a set)

.

Need to look for 2 sets of GSX-R TB's right ? a friend of mine offered me TB's from Yam R6. Will this work ?

[handpaper]

Yep, a set is 4 and you need 6, so two sets . Plus a manifold as stated above....
R6 TBs will be OK if they're about the same size as GSX-R600 ones - but you'll still need six!
Frankly, ITBs are only really necessary with very wild cams (300 degrees and more), so you may be better off with different mods....

[Demlotcrew]

The are ITB's only necessary with wild cams?

Andrew

[BadDave]

Otherwise atliss or bog brothers for a manifold to use bike throttle bodies.
Jason

Thank u for the input. i just lost a e-bay bidding for E28 M5/E24 M6 Tbs.
Which s the suitable TBs from bike? hayabusa? again to attach another one more sets to make 6.
Can M3/M5 MAF be used to replace M30's AFM ?

sorry to bug you..

Thye Suzuki TB's are the easiest to space as they are individual units bolted together
Most,if not all of the others are twin castings
GSXR600 bodies are 38mm I/D and are good for up to 300bhp on a 4pot (alledgelly)before you need to move up to the larger ones from the 750/1000/ or Busa

They go for about £80 a set on the bay

Try and get the ones from the K1 version
K2/K3 ones will work as well but need the ecu controlled 2nd butterflies removed and the spindle holes welded.

K4 and newer versions are the twin body type.

Make sure you get the injector sub loom with the TB's as the injector plugs are $40 + shipping for 4 from the US.
OR the sub loom costs around £60 IIRC if ordered from Suzuki.
The injectors fitted are manufactured by Keihin and the only vehicle i found that had the same ones were on a V6 Suzuki Vitara(scrapyard owner wouldn't sell the loom or injectors)

Altiss or Bogg bros will make a manifold/lengthen the fingers/spacers/fuel rail etc.

My GSXR600 TB work in progress




HTH

Dave

[Andy335Touring]

Is your engine pretty standard ?

As TB's won't make a massive power increase on a stock engine, they will look and sound cool, make the throttle response better.

As a bare minimum to make this worth while i'd say you need to lose the AFM and switch to a piggy back/stand alone ECU.

TB's, cam and lose the AFM and switch to a piggy back/stand alone ECU will get you some better results because the engine can flow more air with a cam.

Sorry if this sounds a little negative but i wouldn't want you to go through with all this work and expense and being disapointed with the gains.

Just to give you an idea of the difference in various set ups i worked out the surface area of the TB butterflies i was going to fit to mine(E28 M5 TB's) and the twin 60mm TB i ended up using.

This is a copy and paste of an old post i wrote.

_________________________________________

I was going to fit some M5 TB's to my M30 but i think they are over sized for my engine, over complicated and more likely to leak air if i ever turbo charge my car.

A mod i have seen on an M30 turbo relocates the standard TB to the other side of the inlet manifold so running the intake/charge pipe work is easier, this also has the benefit in N/A guise of placing the air filter and intake pipes on the cold side of the engine away from the exhaust manifold.

The flat side of the inlet manifold is roughly 95mm x 200mm so i can fit a fairly big TB to it once it has been skimmed flat. The stock TB is 64-65mm. I had a look on the US ebay site for a bigger TB(UK ebay was useless) and there was a wacking big 90mm TB but it probobly would have been to wide.

But this one should do the trick mounted virtically(sp?) with the throttle mech' on top and the TPS on the bottom. Not sure yet weather i'm going to bolt it on or have it welded on ?

 

Each TB is 60mm, to compare the sizes of the TB's i have worked out the total surface area in mm2 of the following TB set ups.

M30 = 3318
2 x 60mm = 5654
M5 TB's = 9542 (or nearly three times bigger than the stock M30 TB !)

Unfortunately people on the stock AFM/ECU set up won't be able to do this mod unless you swap over to either a big MAF and Unichip or a stand alone ECU like megasquirt/Emerald/ETC.

This mod will hope fully compliment my existing mods(head/cam/Emerald/larger injectors) and if i ever turbo the old M30 it will be handy to have the TB located on that side of the manifold.

Sorry for rambling on but i thought it might interest some M30 modders, what do you think ?________________________________________________________

Just to add the when i worked out the surface area i didn't include the throttle spindle in the sums.

[BadDave]

Is your engine pretty standard ?

As TB's won't make a massive power increase on a stock engine, they will look and sound cool, make the throttle response better.

As a bare minimum to make this worth while i'd say you need to lose the AFM and switch to a piggy back/stand alone ECU.

TB's, cam and lose the AFM and switch to a piggy back/stand alone ECU will get you some better results because the engine can flow more air with a cam.

Sorry if this sounds a little negative but i wouldn't want you to go through with all this work and expense and being disapointed with the gains.

Should have included this in my post

[kabeer]

Thanx Dave and Andy for the useful info. my engine is stock, 3.91 open-end rear ax, except fitted a confilter and valve cover breather filter. My original idea was to fit a catcam and chip it with a EAT chip(wild), mustang injectors and a custom header set (somewhat a copy of RD) with some porting/polishing. i had chat with Mark D'silva somtime back regarding his chip. i'll be going thru GSX route which i belive enough to get me close to 240Bhp, i guess.


cheers and any comments

[BadDave]

i'll be going thru GSX route which i belive enough to get me close to 240Bhp, i guess.


cheers and any comments

In that case

The 38mm ones from the GSX600R K1 or K2/K3 models(with the ecu controlled 2nd butterflies removed) should do you fine enough
the 750/1000/busa ones will probably be too big

HTH

Dave

[kabeer]

In that case.... GSX600R K1 or K2/K3 models(with the ecu controlled 2nd butterflies removed) should do you fine enough
Dave[/quote]

can you explain a bit more on removing 2nd butterflies....please

[jkarran]

The later designs have an ECU controlled (fly by wire) secondary butterfly to give progressive throttle response (and presumably to limit torque in lower gears as per the 'busa?). I guess people remove them and blank the spindle holes rather than just lock them open to improve the flow.

Yamaha used a similar (vaccum opperated rather than ECU controlled) setup on the 2002/03 R1 (and R6?). That used flat slides rather than butterflies.

jk

[BadDave]

can you explain a bit more on removing 2nd butterflies....please

The butterflies are held on the spindles by 2 screws per butterfly
Remove screws then turn the spindle till the butterflies are in the open position them pull them out of the spindle

The spindle is held on by a nut
Remove nut and the Electronic gubbins on the side and remove spindle
Easy enough to do

[kabeer]

Remove nut and the Electronic gubbins on the side and remove spindle

OK, good info.
Can i use the M30's "Throttle Valve Switch" on the GSX TB's? or shaffle the wiring ?

[BadDave]

OK, good info.
Can i use the M30's "Throttle Valve Switch" on the GSX TB's? or shaffle the wiring ?

The TB's should have a throttle pot still fitted and the wiring should still be hooked up to them

Connect the wires from your new ECU to the throttle pot as per the ecu wiring manual