Oh dear, more M30 woes. Long boring story inside.

[Theo]

Well, yet again i've fecked something up on my 335i

After cracking the welds on my last set of engine mounts I bought a nice new set of 300mm.de copies from Beefy (top man) which are lovely. So i removed the old scrap and started fitting the new ones, n/s one went on along with an Ireland engineering poly engine mounts. Then, started tackling the o/s mount......great I've got a sheared bolt in the block, totally flush. Not to worry, i can tackle that tomorrow when there is more time/light. So fitted the mount on the other two holes and all seemed well.

At this point, I decided that it would be a good idea to go for a little tootle around in the car to see what all the fuss is about with vibrations from poly engine and gearbox mounts. After a few miles of sedate motoring some knob jockey in an evo7 comes flying up behind me. So i did the sensible thing, and launched it past 5 cars, to my suprise, he follows. So I stay on it so as not to give him the satisfaction of overtaking me. After a while I turn off and leave him to wonder why a 20yr old 316i is so quick. It was at this point i noticed a large amount of contact with the steering coupling when i turned either direction. I nursed it home and left it overnight to think about what it's done wrong.

So, today I got up and thought I would sort out the sorry turd once and for all, removed the 2 bolts holding the mount on and got more than I bargain for. About 2 cm of the engine block came off with the bolt on the top left hole (see pic of an m30 block at the bottom for reference). I decided to tackle the sheared bolt first. Stud remover did nothing, and i didn't want to snap one in there, so thought I would use progressively bigger drills and get the bugger out that way. Sadly, i'm retarded and failed to acheive anything other than making a mess of it and can't see how I can get the remains of the bolt out without going to a bigger drill and retapping the thread.

Anyway, my question is, can the broken bit of block we welded back on easily enough, and can the hole be retapped. The engine needs to come out anyway, so i'm contemplating getting another m30 and putting that in, knowing I have loads of spares from my current lump.

[Colonel Sanders]

the block could be helicoiled but dunno about the weldin mate?

not good mate but take it you were goin well then?

[beefy]

bad news theo but at least it proves the mounts are very strong. Id resonally tap it out bigger.

What are the arrows representing?

And out nd interest whats that silver bit on the block at the right of the pic foot recall seeing that on mine.

Also whats the issue with the poly mounts?

[beefy]

sorry for bad spelling doin this on phone

[beefy]

just an idea but could the mount be modified or a new one made to attach to your 2 good holds (when you get the stud out or tap it bigger) and also to the hole marked with the blue arrow.

Maybe we could sort something out theo if its possible. Ill use the mount youve got and get a new one made for your self.

[Andy335Touring]

Thats a bugger dude

I don't think the block will weld very well but i could be wrong, like beefy says may be you could extend the mount to pic up one(or more) of the other mounting holes ?

If you can get the sheared one out then just tap it for the next size up.

[Andy335Touring]

And out nd interest whats that silver bit on the block at the right of the pic foot recall seeing that on mine.

A/C pump bracket i think ?

[Theo]

Rossle, the hole is currently m10x1.5, i was thinking I could drill it out and helicoil it to m12x1.5?

John, the mounts are spot on, this has all come about because I drove the car with only 2 out of 3 bolts holding the mount on. That picture is not my block, the silver part I assume to be the A/C compressor bracket. Theres no issue with the poly mounts, everyone says how much vibration it will cause but it wasn't noticeable in my car possibly because it is fully stripped and pretty stiff and noisy anyway. I'm going to think about what to do next, could be a good idea swapping the mounts though.

Pic to clarify matters a little

[Speedtouch]

Weld the mounts to the block?

[320Touring]

Theo- I'd blame Chris W for uneven loading on the block after re-attaching the fanbelt

[DRIFTBOY]

That's a right old bummer dude!

As always, if you need a pair of hands for an engine swap, should it come to that! or a hand with anything just give me a shout.

I'm surprised running it with two bolts has caused so much trouble!
Mine has only got two bolts on one of the brackets, hasn't been a problem yet.
A little job for me tomorrow I think!

Good luck mate!

[Theo]

Don't want to weld the mounts to the block, I don't think that would really be possible either.

Neil, you're right - it's all Warburtons fault!!

Martin, get that 3rd bolt in!!! I really just need to know whether it's possible to weld the broken section of block back on so that it is as strong as it was originally. If it's not then I will just get a good engine, and know that I have a load of good spares from my current engine. Your help will be hugely appreciated as ever! BTW - I have a nice m30 top rad hose that I owe you.

[DRIFTBOY]

No probs mate.

Seems harsh to scrap an egine for the sake of a part that doesn't effect the way the engine runs!

I can't answer the welding question, not sure what the crack is with welding iron. I hope it's possible for your sake!

[kam-325i]

You can weld iron, but the rods are not cheap.......

[Speedtouch]

Nothing a bit of Chemical Metal won't sort

[johnl320]

The bottom left thread is unused normally but I've cleaned the thread out with a tap and used that with my homemade mount. Maybe you could get one manfactured to use that hole as well.
I know that doesn't solve your problem completely but it may help if you get one of the others sorted


john

[Theo]

The bottom left hole did have a perfect thread, then a bolt sheared, then I fucked it up by some poorly executed drilling. e30.de/300mm.de mounts use the three holes that have red arrows pointing to them on the picture.

I'm leaning towards the new engine idea at the moment, any one got a good m30b35 for sale?

[Speedtouch]

That BMW breakers in Charing had some M30B35s lying about last time I visited...

[Toby_Unna]

Theo

my exhaust side mount (which is a right bodge job as I originally made it for an E28 block) uses that hole near the B marked with a blue arrow in the last pic.

it's always worth trying to get flush-sheared bolts out by mig welding a big washer to the remains and using a stilsons or mole wrench - the heat shock breakes the corrosion seal and it often works first time. might still be possible?

i'd say welding the block back together is unlikely as it's such a large lump of iron, not an expert though.

i'd imagine you don't want to go messing about with your nice new mounts, but as a temp solution what about fixing that knackered thread and getting the old mount bodged with a mig and some extra steel to pick up the blue-arrowed hole? should be fairly straightforward and give you time to think about swapping block etc

[fugazi33]

Welding cast is very specialised, as amongst other things the part being welded has to be heated to pretty much an exact temp, so the block would need stripping bare to begin with & it will always be a weak spot as cast is very brittle & welding makes it even more so, probably easier to look for another bottom end

[Theo]

Welding cast is very specialised, as amongst other things the part being welded has to be heated to pretty much an exact temp, so the block would need stripping bare to begin with & it will always be a weak spot as cast is very brittle & welding makes it even more so, probably easier to look for another bottom end

Well, that's that settled then, new engine it is. Thanks for the reply, it's what I wanted to know.

Toby, no chance of welding to the sheared bolt, as its mostly drilled out now. I really wish I had a welding kit so I could try these things for myself though. Not going to bother bodging up the old mount, luckily it's not my only car, so I will just wait til a good new lump comes along.

The engine needs to come out anyway so I can hammer the bulkhead and refit the engine in p3, so it sort of makes sense. Will make sure everything is done properly this time.

Need to make a list of things to do so the engine doesn't need to come out again in the future. List so far;

New gearbox rear seals, sump gasket, fit e24 oil filter housing and cooler, rotate one of the flanges on the manifold 45 degrees to allow clearance for an e36 rack, possibly an e28 flywheel and clutch.

Good thing the student loan is on it's way!

[kam-325i]

Welding cast is very specialised, as amongst other things the part being welded has to be heated to pretty much an exact temp, so the block would need stripping bare to begin with & it will always be a weak spot as cast is very brittle & welding makes it even more so, probably easier to look for another bottom end

It not that specialised.

Welding of exotic cast's requires heating and matched rods...

But run of the mill engine blocks can be done with general purpose cast rods....
The problems of brittleness arise when the weld is in a small area.

[fugazi33]

No problem fella, back when I was an apprentice I had to visit a place which specialised in cast fusing/welding & they went through the process with me, a lot of it went over my head but it was all very involved, time consuming stuff which will always equal big money As said above you could try beefing up whats left & use that upper bolt hole to spead the forces on the mount a bit for now & hopefuly get another lump to build up, hth.

[fugazi33]

Welding cast is very specialised, as amongst other things the part being welded has to be heated to pretty much an exact temp, so the block would need stripping bare to begin with & it will always be a weak spot as cast is very brittle & welding makes it even more so, probably easier to look for another bottom end

It not that specialised.

Welding of exotic cast's requires heating and matched rods...

But run of the mill engine blocks can be done with general purpose cast rods....
The problems of brittleness arise when the weld is in a small area.

Well that would be cool if that's the case & would be strong enough, cheaper as well!

[kam-325i]

The Speacilist knowlegde is needed when you have to consider the grain flow and grain structure of the peice being repaired.

[Brianmoooore]

Welding cast is very specialised, as amongst other things the part being welded has to be heated to pretty much an exact temp, so the block would need stripping bare to begin with & it will always be a weak spot as cast is very brittle & welding makes it even more so, probably easier to look for another bottom end

It not that specialised.

Welding of exotic cast's requires heating and matched rods...

But run of the mill engine blocks can be done with general purpose cast rods....
The problems of brittleness arise when the weld is in a small area.

Well that would be cool if that's the case & would be strong enough, cheaper as well!

I once needed to fit a replacement engine (totally different from the original) in a vehicle (not a car). The bell housing was cast iron, and the engine had a steel endplate.
The clutch in this vehicle was elsewhere, so all that was in the bell housing was effectively a clutch driven plate with no friction lining, bolted directly to the outside of the flywheel, so there would be no need ever to remove the bellhousing.
Drilled and tapped the flywheel, bolted on the drive plate, carefully lined up the engine and bell housing on blocks, and just stick welded the cast to the steel where it touched! Lasted about twelve years until the vehicle was scrapped.

[gareth]

bummer dude! your car is jinxed!!!

if it was me, i'd refit the mount, wedge the engine in the right place and tack a hefty lump of steel in there to triangulate a support between the mount and that higher unused bolt hole.

welding the broken stub back onto the block can do no harm. mabe a few ribs to suport it a bit too? it'll help put the car back on the road for a while at the very least and the extra lump could be cut off the mount later if you do swap the lump.

i heard that aldi were doing arc welder sets for £35 the other week...

oh, if you're going M12 on the drilled out mount, standard pitch is M12x1.75

[kam-325i]

i heard that aldi were doing arc welder sets for £35 the other week...

Pack of 10 Mild steel Rods = £4.95
Pack of 10 Cast rods (Gen) = £22.50

[Theo]

I went to Aldi the other day and they didn't have any of those arc welders left. Apparently the deal is 2/3 weeks old, so think it will be hard to get hold of one.

[oze30]

get 3 batteries, join them in series and get the welding rods. It can be done, used to do it on my old jeep when it got busted a few times. It's not the best, but if you can weld, you can weld with this. Bit more difficult as there's no adjustment, just 24/36 volts and god knows how many amps!!

[gareth]

curses

[Demlotcrew]

New block mate!

[touringsport]

Grain flow and grain structure is something very complicated, way past my expertise!. surely stresses exerted on this area has to be relatively (compared to weld area/penetration) low?
Ive mag welded new mounts onto a (very) large boat v8, and the customer never came back to complain.....
I did pre-heat the area first tho....
If your still looking for an answer, a freind has used these guys before- although for something more rare than a m30.
http://www.slinden.co.uk

[Morat]

Grain flow and grain structure is something very complicated, way past my expertise!. surely stresses exerted on this area has to be relatively (compared to weld area/penetration) low?
Ive mag welded new mounts onto a (very) large boat v8, and the customer never came back to complain.....
I did pre-heat the area first tho....
If your still looking for an answer, a freind has used these guys before- although for something more rare than a m30.
http://www.slinden.co.uk

Did the customer's hull have a V-8 shaped hole in it when they dredged it up again? ;)

[touringsport]

Grain flow and grain structure is something very complicated, way past my expertise!. surely stresses exerted on this area has to be relatively (compared to weld area/penetration) low?
Ive mag welded new mounts onto a (very) large boat v8, and the customer never came back to complain.....
I did pre-heat the area first tho....
If your still looking for an answer, a freind has used these guys before- although for something more rare than a m30.
http://www.slinden.co.uk

Did the customer's hull have a V-8 shaped hole in it when they dredged it up again? ;)

its a definate possibility....