Which engine swop- advice please

[appletree]

Right i have decided that i want to put a different engine in my IS. the engines good but i want somthing abit quicker.

My options.
I have spoke to TIM_S about building a 2ltr engine using the IS engine and getting custom pistons and con rods to make a fast respones engine with more power and low down torque than my car has at the moment

But then after seeing the e36 M3s going up the strip yesterday i'am thinking more about doing a full conversion to some thing more modden like 2.8ltr or if i can stretch to it a m3 3.2ltr or 3ltr

the reason i am thinking go more modden is mainly because these engines are designed stand taking abuse all day long were as if i try and build an engine i'am trying to make a small engine work harder than its design to if you no what i mean?

At the moment i'am looking more towards the 2.8ltr mainly because of cost and also insurance.

i'd like to here you opinions on the engines/convertions and if any one can shine any light on the work involved in doing a conversion to the 2.8 i would much appriecate it

cheers, matt

[appletree]

Also is the 2.8 externaly the same as the 3.0 and 3.2 ltr engines?

[maxfield]

No they look pretty different

[maxfield]

ians 332



This is the 2.5 but looks almost identical to 2.8

[chu346]

What about turbo or supercharger???

[fuzzy]

What about turbo or supercharger???

because he doent want to strain a small engine to work hard,hes looking for something that was designed with decent power to start with which i suppose would be more reliable which is sensible

[chu346]

I just think it could be easier than doing an engine swap, possibly cheaper to gain more bhp when required, and won't have to worry about added weight at the front of the car which would be quite abit of a difference with it being a 318is.

[TheRealest]

put a 740 lump in her!!!!

[jmc330i]

the reason i am thinking go more modden is mainly because these engines are designed stand taking abuse all day long were as if i try and build an engine i'am trying to make a small engine work harder than its design to if you no what i mean?

Thats basically why I went for the M3 S50 conversion. Was looking at tuning up the M20 in 2.5 form or going 2.7, but had the same thought as you.

Looked at the 2.8 24v M52 conversion but then went mad and went for the M3 3.0ltr.

The 2.8 24v conversion is a good conversion, more power can be got pretty easily and it makes the E30 shift quite nicely as standard

The 2.8 M52 conversion from the E36 328i is the same as the 2.5 M50 conversion, so a quick search should bring all you need to know - theres a few M50 threads.

A quick run down...
- E36 alloy engine arms (should come with engine)
- E28 M5 rubber engine mounts
- E34 M50 sump and oil pick up pipe.
- smaller brake servo (VW Mk2 Golf 1.3 seems to do the trick)
- mod the exhaust manifold
- E30 M3 diff to work with the E36 gearbox ratios.
- different prop depending on gearbox choice.
- some wiring and plumbing.

[appletree]

You got the Idea fuzzy, ad rather keep it N/A if possible aswell. looks like the 2.5/2.8 isnt quite as tight in the engine bay as the ians 3.2.

Think i read that the 2.8 was quite restricted aswell, thought some one on hear said it was good for 250bhp with a chip, manifold and filter.

so if i put the 2.8 in would a be able to use the same mounts as some one who has done he 2.5 conversion?

am only asking as its alot easyier if your not the first to do a conversion and you can go on others experiense.

[chu346]

- E36 alloy engine arms (should come with engine)

Why do you need them?

Think i read that the 2.8 was quite restricted aswell, thought some one on hear said it was good for 250bhp with a chip, manifold and filter.

I think it gives about 230bhp, which is nice.

[jmc330i]

so if i put the 2.8 in would a be able to use the same mounts as some one who has done he 2.5 conversion?

A quick run down...
- E36 alloy engine arms (should come with engine)
- E28 M5 rubber engine mounts
- E34 M50 sump and oil pick up pipe.
- smaller brake servo (VW Mk2 Golf 1.3 seems to do the trick)
- mod the exhaust manifold
- E30 M3 diff to work with the E36 gearbox ratios.
- different prop depending on gearbox choice.
- some wiring and plumbing.

That list is for the 2.5 and 2.8 conversions - they are the same engine basically.

- E36 alloy engine arms (should come with engine)

Why do you need them?

The engine will fall out if you dont use them
Seriously though, the M50/M52/S50 engines all sit on the standard E36 alloy mounting arms in the E30 chassis.

Think i read that the 2.8 was quite restricted aswell, thought some one on hear said it was good for 250bhp with a chip, manifold and filter.

I think it gives about 230bhp, which is nice.

Apparently 220+bhp can be seen by using the 2.5 M50 exhaust manifold, inlet plenum, TB and aftermarket chip etc. 250bhp requires a little more work but is more than possible and would be a weapon in the E30

[appletree]

Thanks for the replys fellas that list is just wat i wanted!

Do you know if the 2.8 was effected by the nikecil ( or how ever you spell it) problem? and if so what age are the effected engines from?

also what would be the best engine the

M52B28 single vanos

or

M52BTU28 double vanos???

as for the part i need to do the conversion what do i need to source

Engine
ECU
Loom

what else?

[appletree]

Would the wiring be pritty much the same as the 2.5?

has anyone on the zone gone the 2.8 root already?

or

Been in one? what they go like compared to the m50 2.5s? i presume there alot more torque on offer as theres only 1 bhp in it but .8sec quicker 0-60

[fuzzy]

would you also need to upgrade the suspension to take the extra weight? does the 'is' come with 51mm front struts or the 45mm?

[appletree]

Not to sure, i know "eko" dropped the 2.5 in his and had to change the springs to 6 pot ones as it sat to low but i cant remeber what he did about the struts

Al have a read through his project

[jmc330i]

would you also need to upgrade the suspension to take the extra weight? does the 'is' come with 51mm front struts or the 45mm?

I always thought the iS had Mtech 51mm stuff, so in theory just some front 6cyl springs should be fine. The 2.8 M52 is about the same weight as the M20, but the 2.5 M50 is heavier.

The wiring will be a little different between the 2.5 and 2.8. The 2.8 will have the EWS security system which is some extra work to wire in, but its not that hard to do and the extra security is always good.

The torque of the 2.8 is what makes it go as standard (IIRC its nearly 30lb/ft more than the 2.5) but with the few cheapish mods you get even more.

The 2.8s did have the nikasil problem, but I would of thought most would of been sorted - not sure how you tell though.

[tim_s]

the reason i am thinking go more modden is mainly because these engines are designed stand taking abuse all day long were as if i try and build an engine i'am trying to make a small engine work harder than its design to if you no what i mean?

Argument of stressing the engine is rubbish. freshly bored block, fully balanced and built with new shells, custom rods + pistons and a new cyl head is way stronger than a factory block, esp a 2nd hand or scrapyard one and one that is prob gonna be 10 years old odd.

For power per Ԛ£ and a straightforward project, go for an M50 (or m52/4 if you want it slightly trickier). s50 you're dreaming, i'll put good money on no-one offering you insurance at anywhere near a reasonable price. in fact you're really gonna struggle anyway with an m5x.
as for nikasil, its a real non-issue now. just about all affected blocks will have been changed for alusil by now, and if they're not changed but still running well, its not a prob as the fuel now is lower sulphur. If you're really worried, get an m50.

IS has 51mm struts but is a lightish engine so changing to an m5x you'll def need new springs.

I thought the whole reason you were considering building an engine was to have a learning project. Doing an engine conversion won't do that - but on the other hand will be the most simple route to making good power.

[appletree]

ya i was thinking about building an engine for the learning experinence, but the more i think about the work involved that i dont know yet i think it would be a much harder way for me to go. like you said the m42 is quite a complex engne to start with.

Also i havent totaly ruled out building an engine i'am just trying to get more infomation on the possible roots so i can make an informed choice about the best way go and bhp/Ԛ£

My freind is also in the prosses of buying a MKII golf, so we might end up using that as a starting point for building an engine as you said that would be a good starting point and his car will be for the track so it wont matter about insurance

Tim you realy are a top bloke! thanks for all you help the other night and am sure i'll be in touch again weather it be Bmw or VW related

[cliffybabe]

Talk to Stuartgallafant as he considered supercharging a 318is lump and doing some other work aswell