Bullet-proof S50B32

[jaistanley]

As you know I am currently on a buying binge (borrowed the money to finish project car before it starts getting dark at noon) for my S50 B32 conversion.

I understand the S50B32 has a bit of a bad rep in the reliability stakes.

1.The VANOS is tempromental
2.The big end spins shells at higher RPM
3.Con-rods go bang at high RPM

To combat 1. I was simply planning on changing the oil as often as possible and hoping it doesn't go. If it does I may consider loosing it and fitting cams and megasquirt but that's by-the by.

2. and 3. I think are the result of the standard con-rod bolts stretching at high rpm.

My engine is a 48,000 mile from a 1997 ZMRoadster.

What would you reccomend I do to the engine to strengthen it against my hooligan (not neccasarily good) driving? I was thinking about fitting a set of ARP titanium rod bolts as reccomended by GermanGorilla. Should I think about changing for a set of std sized shells whilst I'm in there? Just big ends, not mains. Is it worth plastiguaging it?

It'll have a new oil pump and I'll change the little gauze in the VANOS as well as a full service (minus the shims for now).

Many thanks for your help guys.

Jai Stanley

[jmc330i]

AFAIK, the Vanos problem wasnt helped by the little gauze filter not being changed at service. Even the dealer said I didnt need to bother with it when I order mine

If you do regular oil changes and keep the gauze filter clear you should be fine - most Vanos units would of been replaced by now anyway.

Numbers 2 & 3 on your list - do you know if these are 3.2 Evo only, or does the 3.0ltr suffer as well?

[buster]

wheres the little gauze ?
I havent taken any of the vanos appart.

[jaistanley]

I'm not sure about the gauze.. I was urged to make it my first job by pacerpete and Ian so I guess it's a good idea! We'll have to ask them for one of those cool ETK pictures.

I don't think the S50B30 suffered from the con-rod bolt problem (how many blown S50b32's on ebay compared to S50B30'S???). Not sure if it's because they changed the stroke of the S50 or if they used rubbish conrods/bolts. (a longer stroke increases the force on bottom end components because the piston/rod needs to be accelerated harder)

To be honest, this is only from what I've picked up. We need to get the full low-down from an S50 guru on their strengths and weaknesses.

Jai

[jmc330i]

wheres the little gauze ?
I havent taken any of the vanos appart.

Its a small gauze filter screw on the front of the Vanos unit. If looking from the front of the car, its on the right hand side (intake side) of the Vanos unit next to the round cover with 6 bolts.

Part number 23 on the realoem link - Click Me

[jmc330i]

I'm not sure about the gauze.. I was urged to make it my first job by pacerpete and Ian so I guess it's a good idea! We'll have to ask them for one of those cool ETK pictures.

I was also told it was a good idea to change it (possibly by Ian), but BMW said it wasnt that important I just said Id rather spend a couple quid just in case.

ETK pic in the link above

[jaistanley]

Some greasy faced little twerp who thinks because he hasn't heard of it, it can't possibly exist and we're morons.. Drives a 116i. Has an ipod to plug into it and one of those phones that flips out and plays the So Solid Crew.

Twat..

Jai

[buster]

Nice one cheers guys ,i wasnt aware of this.
Is there a service manual or something available for these engines ?
It would be very handy thing to have.

[jmc330i]

Is there a service manual or something available for these engines ?
It would be very handy thing to have.

I asked on a few forums about something like that before I started my conversion - there didnt seem to be anything

[ian332isport]

Guys,

Good article on Vanos filter and Vanos bolts here:

http://www.mukerji.co.uk/vanos/

Regarding a service manual. The best place I've found is the TIS CD. It's shite for the E30, but very good for E36 (and later) info.

Ian.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi Ian,

Top article on the Evo Vanos, excellent information.

All Evo Engine converters should undertake the advice given.
I have now seen over 5 Evo engines with the Vanos completely
blown off the front.

Changing the Filtre Bolt is an absolute given, at say every 10,000 miles.

This is why many Guys using the S50 B32 Engines for racing purposes
remove the Vanos, class permitting.
Road Cars, are better with the Vanos retained, as the power band is much
lower and more even, whereas when removed or 'locked' the power band moves to the top end, and the engine looses lots of low down torqe and power.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[jmc330i]

Road Cars, are better with the Vanos retained, as the power band is much
lower and more even, whereas when removed or 'locked' the power band moves to the top end, and the engine looses lots of low down torqe and power.

Thats why I wanted to keep the Vanos. I was told by a few people to remove it/lock the cam, but I wanted the car to be a good road car not just fun on the track.

[jaistanley]

I'm definately going to go through all of the above points before installing. There seems to be some oil residue already on my vanos unit but I'm pretty sure it's coming from the rocker cover gasket above, just a little weep. If it blows there'll be more than a little weep coming from me!

As for the bottom end: Does anyone know how best to treat it? A set of std shells and ARP rod bolts perhaps. It's not a massive investment when the longetivity of such a complex/expensive engine is considered.

GermanGorilla: You say you've seen 5 or so VANOS grenades. How many bottom end ones? Is it as common a problem as rod-bolt vendors would have me beleive? Seeing as the engine's out it'll be easy and not too expensive. Once it goes in that little engine bay I may never bother again. I'd kick myself sick if I revved too hard one day and threw a rod.

Jai

[Jhonno]

this vanos thing.. is it worth doing on the s50b30? i know its only single vanos, but it looks very different... is it the same parts?

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

Single Vanos 3.0 ltr engine very strong,
not as fragile
as the 3.2 Evo, only has Intake Vanos,
and seldom goes wrong.

In the rear world makes around 260-265 BHP,
but some have
been known to crank out 280 BHP
plus from the factory.

3.2 Evo, real world, good ones make around 300 BHP,
BMW were very selective with their Press Cars,
and the 321 BHP claimed.

If running the MAF you can take the plastic mesh screens out of
both sides of the MAF. You would surprised how restrictive these
can be on the Air Flow.
If you do remove them, then have the engine remapped with
them removed, other wise it will start running very rich as the
DME /ECU starts pumping more fuel into the engine, even at low
Revs to compensate for the greater air flow.

The reason that the Bottom ends go on the Evo's is that the Bolts
stretch and once they have stretched then they let go, and bye bye
Bottom end.

If the engine is out, replace the Bolts with the ARP Titanium Bolts,
but check for any blueing on the Crank ends,
if it is badly blue in colour, then I would investigate further,
and you will more than likely end up doing Shells etc.

These engines also spin or rev up much nicer with
Ligthened Flywheels.
However, the original is a Dual Mass steel Flywheel,
which is very difficult to make lighter, so a Alloy one
from JP or Fidenza is the way to go.

Make sure that any replacement Flywheel is no lighter
than 50 % of the original if using the Original DME / ECU.
Reason is that the DME/ECU can get confused
and there are cases where the engine has been unable to be
tuned properly due to a Flywheel being too light.

If you are going over the engine with it out of the car
make sure the Oil Squirters that push oil to the bottom
of the pistons are all in good working order.

In changing over to a M50 Sump and 3.0ltr Oil Pump and
pick up, you could also insert about a 2mm spacer under the
oil pressure valve, just so to pick up the Oil Pressure a little.
Helps compensate for any loss due to single oil pick instead
of the original dual pick up.

Run 50-10 0r 60-10 fully synthetic engine oil, always allow
all the temps to be up to operating temp before canning the
engine to within an inch of its life, if not, start looking for a
replacement one now.

Hope this input helps, most of which has been learnt the hard way !!

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Jhonno]

anyway to get the engine to cope with a flywheel more than 50% lighter other than £Â£Ã‚£Ã‚£Ã‚£ worth of standalone ecu?

i take it the 3.0 bottom ends are pretty bullet proof then without the rod bolt problem

[Dan318-is]

Make sure that any replacement Flywheel is no lighter
than 50 % of the original if using the Original DME / ECU.
Reason is that the DME/ECU can get confused
and there are cases where the engine has been unable to be
tuned properly due to a Flywheel being too light.

Danny, does this apply to any engine?

[Jhonno]

Make sure that any replacement Flywheel is no lighter
than 50 % of the original if using the Original DME / ECU.
Reason is that the DME/ECU can get confused
and there are cases where the engine has been unable to be
tuned properly due to a Flywheel being too light.

Danny, does this apply to any engine?

no dont think so.. i think its cause of the way the 2 systems have to talk to each other possibly

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

I believe that each engine is different, but I know of
a guy who runs a Alloy Flywheel on his E30 M3,
which is about 40% of original mass, but he runs Motec.

The reason that the Flywheel mass is so important
on the S30B52 Evo, is that it uses a Dual Mass
Steel one to start with.

Have you ever picked one of these up !!!!

If using the Siemans ECU then 50% is about as
far as you should go without issues.

I believe its down to the various sensors and signals they start
sending to the ECU.

Interestingly, if running the SMG gearbox then nobody
recommends using a lighter Alloy flywheel, hence why
the E46 M3 CSL will never make much more than around
360-370 BHP unless you spend north of 30K, if wanting to
retain the SMG box.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Demlotcrew]

SMG is really nice on the new ///M cars dont think i would have one without.

Andrew