525td turbo on 325i advice

[wullie325i]

wooooooooooo!

im needing some advice as ive seen a 325i running on the turbo out of a 525td and want to know how to do this and is it worth it ect and what will it cost to do.

also if this can be done what sort of performance gains will it give ect and any down side to doing this aswell.

thanks

wullie

[Lee_Coupe]

I'm not genius but I believe that the Manifolds CAN be adapted to fit the M20, not the quickest of job's though.

Also I'd imagion the turbo not having a enough pressure?

But then I relise that TD run silly boost anyway lol


Ummm well I tryed to help

[blingsta]

pm jamz as he's just done his, there is a thread on it somewhere! jon-b helped him install it all as it was previously on his motor

[Jon_Bmw]

pm jamz as he's just done his, there is a thread on it somewhere! jon-b helped him install it all as it was previously on his motor

Naa not jonB, jon_bmw. Has been a very successful conversion in mine and jamz's opinion I think. Transforms the car completely.

Its a slog getting it all together even when you have the right bits, so a bit of a challenge when you are collecting bits. You won't want the car to be a daily driver whilst you do teh conversion, because if you hit any problems, you are stuffed. Once its been completed then i can't see any problems for it being a daily driver, bar fuel on boost!

Cost = depends how much of the work you can do yourself?, how much you are willing to research?

[WillG]

depending on turbo you use you might need to sandwhich a flange between mani and turbo to lift it up abit Ive heard

[blingsta]

so Jon-Bmw, did you check out that custom pipe i had made for the oil pressure switch, what do you reckon??

[Jon_Bmw]

so Jon-Bmw, did you check out that custom pipe i had made for the oil pressure switch, what do you reckon??

Oh yes dude, sorry about that got it whilst I was on the misses computer so i forgot about it. The pictures a bit blurry to be honest to work out whats going on Can you explain it, giving sizes of taps and stuff like that.

[blingsta]

yeah sorry bout the image mate.. its bassically a 4" alloy pipe, top screws into block and oils pressure switch screws into bottom.. theres a 4mm hole running thru it and i 5mm hole drilled on the side of it for the oil to get to the turbo! i'll try and get a better picture of it to you soon

[Turbo-Brown]

Personally reckon that a turbo from a 2.5 litre diesel is gonna be a bit on the small side for a 2.5 petrol

[WillG]

Thought he just meant manifold , the turbos to small its gona create alot of boost at low rpm which is dangerous for your engine even if you had someone like ant tuning it with MS i dont think its possible, would want two of these turbos atleast I reakon for a decent setup, if you didi use this turbo you would need to run very low boost with a huge wastegate to make it safe. Diesel engine will make its power at much lower rpm so it will handle the backpressure the small turbo creates which isnt as much as a problem with diesel fuel anyway. Would start looking for a small recon HX35 12-14 cm^2 if you serious about a reliable turbo conversion

[wullie325i]

hi

i know nothing about turbo setups can someone spell it out it plain english.

and whats the best way to go when doing this reletively cheaply?

wullie

[WillG]

you need to get a second hand truck turbo becuase these are best value for what you need, then you could use TD mani with sandwich plate to lift the turbo up abit to clear rocker cover, or you could get an adpater made for LHD or RHD stock manifolds or you could buy a chinese equal length tube job for about £400. then you will need a wastegate, dumpvalve, intercooler, injectors, will need get down pipe from turbo and maybe a system depends if you can mod downpipe into stock system, I know mark (fozzymonster) managed this. Then dont mess about with tuning with piggybacks you want to speak to ant once you got all the other stuff sorted out and get a megasquirt install. If you dont know anything then you need to read lots here, and other forums like e30tech, rev, etc and in books, If you dont fancy that then your best bet is to pay ant (A-tech) or someone similar (?) to do the conversion for you, but check them out first, you can trust ant but I would ask about for any other place near to you for what cars they have done and have a chat to owners, there are plenty of people out there that you dont want doing this conversion (, kent is abit far from scotland )

[wullie325i]

hi

thanks mate

scotland seems a bit shit for getting cars tuned as i cant find anywhere that does this sort of stuff local to me.

wullie

[WillG]

turbo £250 for a good holset
use TD mani
volvo intercooler from scrapyard if not ebay
injectors from breakers/scrapyard
get fabricator on downpipe and charge pipes
dumpvalves are cheap like £50-100 ebay
Knock off wastegate for £100-150 ebay

becarful on ebay, its ok aslong as you check out the seller proper

then ECU install probly about £500, there should be someone up there that can install ECU and map it for ok price

need other small bits like hoses and air filter but, you can do alot of it from fabrication and scrap yard, look at tobys M30 turbo job that will give you a good idea.

If your not going for bling or high boost setup you can probly get it done for near 1k

[JAMZ]

Thought he just meant manifold , the turbos to small its gona create alot of boost at low rpm which is dangerous for your engine even if you had someone like ant tuning it with MS i dont think its possible, would want two of these turbos atleast I reakon for a decent setup, if you didi use this turbo you would need to run very low boost with a huge wastegate to make it safe. Diesel engine will make its power at much lower rpm so it will handle the backpressure the small turbo creates which isnt as much as a problem with diesel fuel anyway. Would start looking for a small recon HX35 12-14 cm^2 if you serious about a reliable turbo conversion

You are joking right??

Havent been told any of this if these are facts...when you say low boost,what you talking?.. Im running 7psi ATM but still havent been able to give it a real good drive out cuz the rims i got hanve no rubber atm..and the rim si have on the car arnt even centred (spiggots) or balanced.. Need to find out if the IC i have is doing a good job or wether i need to cut the valance to give it a better airflow etc..

Bottom line is i dont wanna go and spend 600-700 pund on MS if the setup i got sucks for my engine!..

Price of the setup basically took over praticality..ie changing my plugs now will take approx 4 hrs instead of 20 mins

How much boost can i get out of a 2.5 Diesel Turbo.. 10 max?

Tbh id rather start agin and spend the 700 quid on a completely different setup then run the risk of killing my engine with this one...

If the Quote isnt factural correct then id like to hear views on the matter anyway..

cheers

[Turbo-Brown]

The manifold is the difficult part and the diesel one you've got is no problem at all Jamz.

If I were you, I'd be looking to get my hands on a T3 from a cossie or something like that (Pretty sure that's what Ant's using). It should bolt straight onto the manifold.

Thing about diesels is that they don't pass that much gas (pardon the expression) due largely to the low revs. Ignoring volumetric efficiency, if you took a 2.5 diesel redlined at 4000rpm, and a 2.5 petrol redlined at 6000rpm, the petrol will process 1/3 more air than the diesel at maximum revs, so the diesel sized for the diesel engine can be 2/3 the size of the one for the petrol. There's some stuff to consider like how much exhaust gas each type of fuel produces per burn too.

This smaller turbo will spin up really quickly on the petrol engine and also provide a big restriction at higher revs.

[stevetigger]

[JAMZ]

Ant used the TD manifold then? prob look into the T3 at some point tbh but im guessing there not internaly wastegated like the one i have now which would need a bit more work me thinks plus all the pipeing/downpipe etc..would end up me only having the IC and the maifold from the orig setup left?..

Well like i said..i havent had much time to even drive the car yet and the cab isnt a spped monster but DID need a bit more grunt which its got.. my hopes now are it dont do any Dmg..

Incidently with Ants setup..Does he have the same problem with the plugs then?

[blingsta]

The only problem is and correct me if im wrong Jamz, i believe if i remember correctly having spoken to Jon-bmw about this, the manifold isnt a t3 flange? i think its the 3bolt one

[JAMZ]

Is that for Me or You steve? lol

[JAMZ]

The only problem is and correct me if im wrong Jamz, i believe if i remember correctly having spoken to Jon-bmw about this, the manifold isnt a t3 flange? i think its the 3bolt one

In that case...the above 'OOPS' post can relate to me

[JAMZ]

Ahh whatever..getting tierd now..just hope it all goes well thats all..

[Turbo-Brown]

It's really not a big problem so don't be disheartened!

The biggest headaches with a turbo setup are mounting the turbo on a manifold, and then getting fluids to and away from it.

Jamz has got those bases covered so a simple turbo upgrade shouldn't be a problem at all

Ant's got a BBR manifold which keeps the blower out of the way of the plugs (alright for some )

T3 turbos are internally wastegated from what I've seen

[JAMZ]

Well,luckly i dont use it a s a daily drive and the plugs were changed when we done the fitting... going buy the amount of miles i do i should need to change em by 2009

Yea not sure with the Pros n Cons with internal and exteranl wastegates? if both were running MS with boost controll...though internal seems to have its advantages on the fabricating/fitting side

[Turbo-Brown]

Hmmm, this thing about the 3stud turbo mounting's thrown me a bit, could've sworn they were 4!

There are advantages to external wastegates in terms of better gas flow from the turbo, but internal gates are simple and don't take much rigging up as of course the gas comes out the same hole as the rest of the waste gasses

If you were going for mega power, you'd probably want an external (and would probably be forced into it by the lack of an internal one) but if you're not after huge outputs or massive turbos, internal is fine

[JAMZ]

Na defo not capabel of taking a T3 on this manifold m8..checked today..

obvioulsy i can go bigger on the same type upto T3 power if not more but it would still be a diesel unit so alot bigger IC and MS would obvioulsy be needed

[WillG]

dont worry jamz 7 psi is low boost really, wouldnt want to go much higher tho, I get abit carried away sometimes and what I say isnt fact its just what I think from reading about turbos alot, I dont have any experience like ant does and if it was dangerous im sure he would of told you. There is some truth in what I said tho about boost at low rpm. like if you have 0.5 bar at 2500 rpm like you probly do its abit (not exactly) like 1 bar at 5000 rpm and you wouldnt want to do that on stock ECU.

I thought ant used a different type of log manifold to the TD one, abit like the TCD one, hasnt he posted pic of it before maybe it isnt that one and it was just picture to show someone

[gcorky]

think Ant uses bbr?
jamz just run car till eventually you will upgrade/refine what you have.

i bought a kit and theres only the head bolts and hosing/tubing that remain.(from original setup lol )

you could possibly make an adapter from the 3 bolt to t3/t4 in future.


just looked at ure setup in previous car:
turbo exhausting at front and then doubling back on its self to exit engine bay=backpressure?anyway not ideal,and its nextdoor to a small i/c(radiating it=heating up charge)

so i think you wil definately in future look at turbo upgrade and poss manifold if you cant adapt.

but your on your way anyway m8,good work.

[WillG]

I dont know what this 3 bolt TD mani flange looks like but you want something like this to adapt it, its for a volvo mani to change it from mitsu turbo flange to T3

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/graph ... 51_450.jpg

My post saying it wont work is OTT, I had been drinking and just asuming everyone runs higher boost then that turbo is capable off but they dont and you make plenty of power with 7psi, should be close to 250 bhp on a stock engine , I would carry on with setup you have and get ECU installed and it should be ok, then if you want to upgrade the MS install is still good for any setup you have it will just need mapping again

[JAMZ]

Thks guys.. Input/Advice is allways welcome..

gcorky:

We changed the setup bud when it went on the car..i will eventualy get some pics up but that IC is not used now...we got another and its placed infron of the rad but i might have to cut valance away to get better airflow as its sitting just above the oil cooler, but with the oil cooler vent and the fan cowling adjusted it should get heaps of airflow around it for now if not actually directed ... the Airfilter is now where the OLD ic was behind the drivers side light and is heat shielded from engine heat or at least most of it so that gets a nice steady airflow when moving too..

The charge pipe does not run along the top of the rad but is nice and tidy entering bottom right of rad and exiting to the left side of the rad half way up...the whole setup is alot more tidy now and runs very nicely on the test runs but does need a more consistant run/test etc but as of yet no probs/knocking etc (fingers crossed)... sounds farkin awesome when you got no roof..trust me

Things to do are:

* Exaust wrap
* Tidy up my make-shift heatshields though there more than adequate but im just being fussy and the Cab is about looks too unfortuanly so things need to stay resonably tidy
* MS!!!

Not sure when funds will permit the MS setup though so untill then i hope i dont have any probs..

Plugs have always been a bit oily on my car...nothing major but its there so going FI will accelerate that problem im sure but i dont do any miles..its a summer cruiser nothing more..when and if that becomes a problem then it just gives me an excuse to revamp the whole block to take more punishment..

rgds

[WillG]

With the flow on the intercooler ive read that if you have whole intercooler exposed it isnt as efficient as haveing good venting to it, you only need a hole 1/3 of size of core and with venting to it aswell that is as efficient as it can be, good luck hope you do ok until you get MS installed , you said in other thread you got bigger injectors anyway and its running very rich so that should help it survive untill you get MS

[wullie325i]

hi

i started this thread and now i have no clue whats going on as im a turbo virgin and apparently dont speak the language lol

wullie

[gcorky]

well wullie,this is ok for a starter-budget setup.i suppose bhp-pound factor yes its worth it but ,most people who do this on a budget run a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to alleviate the fuel system leaning out under boost which is not ideal but some have had an amount of success.

best to install megasquirt at outset and avoid the rrpr/afm probs.


so in a nutshell if you dont mind a lot of trial and error and want a budget setup and require a low boost setup,go for it m8.the key is tuning to a successful setup.

Ant (a tech)supplied my ms and wideband kit(management and tuning tool).

[wullie325i]

hi

i think i will avoid this route as it seems like more hassle than its worth as my car is in really good nick and deserves better.

wullie

[e30_Turbo]

Incidently with Ants setup..Does he have the same problem with the plugs then?

No, but I do!

To remove either rocker cover to plugs 2,3 & 4 the turbo's gotta come off, which is a PITA but much better now I have the V-band flange, that makes removal about 10mins as opposed to 30 with the garret.

Ants setup is too factory to look at, really is neat and tidy and he has both a T3 and a BBR manifold up for grabs for the right money too!

HTH, Mark.