Just a lil 'New to Turbo setup Question'

[JAMZ]

Obviously im still using Motronic and this WILL be sorted by Ant as soon as funds permit..

If i let it warm up for a couple mins and rev the engine a bit i do get Black smoke..not alot but i can notice it..is this normal?

Probably going to post a load of stuff like this till i get used to how the whole thing runs..pro & cons till i get MS etc

cheers

[Ant]

the Motronic has know way of "knowing" the injectors are now bigger Jamz, thats why it smokes a little, worse from cold due to the extra enrichment added based on coolant temp.

Difficult to move forward from this point without investing more £Â£ I'm afraid dude.

Still onwards and upwards, the next £Â£ session will see you get the absoute best from your setup, always a good thing in my book.

[Jon_Bmw]

Ya exactly as Ant said. Clears up after that initial 3/4 mins.

No replacement for megasquirt in my book

[Turbo-Brown]

In which time you're not doing the engine any favours!

Black smoke means more than enough fuel to rinse the lube from the bores unfortunately!

If I were you, I'd be seeking to buy an MS and mapping from Ant before your engine becomes defunct!

[professormatt]

yes the black smoke is overfueling on the cold start map due to running larger injectors

not aware how the ms set up works, but engine mangement and fuel setup i developed with AVA for my m20 2.5 worked really well.

we used two standard fuel rails with 12 standard injectors, a secondary fuel pump.the secondary injectors where run by a AVA piggyback ecu with a map sensor and crank pickup,this engine was as smooth as a babys bum,made 400bhp & still had excellent fuel economy

[Ant]

The ATA setup sounds OK dude, but a second set of inj is a little overcomplicted considering the MS and other standalones use PWM to control huuuge injectors right through the rpm range, using one rail/reg and pump assy, allows you to ditch the AFM to, always a bonus : )

no 1/2 way house, ditch the Bosch and enjoy

[Toby_Unna]

already been said... but just put megasquirt on.

my engine's smoother than it ever was with the motronic.

extra fuel pumps/injector rails/computers might work ok but i can't see the point when standalone is available so cheaply.

my system cost

$100 uprated fuel pump
$140 used high flow injectors (30#)
$350 megasquirt kit and bits and pieces

including delivery, customs duty etc.

[Turbo-Brown]

Don't have any practical experience of twin injector setups, but it occurs to me that with one injector per cylinder, if the wiring fails or the injector stops working for whatever reason, the cylinder just stops firing.

With two injectors being relied upon per cylinder, if one stops working, the piston melts

[professormatt]

Don't have any practical experience of twin injector setups, but it occurs to me that with one injector per cylinder, if the wiring fails or the injector stops working for whatever reason, the cylinder just stops firing.

With two injectors being relied upon per cylinder, if one stops working, the piston melts

hmm.. on the contrary if you look at most of all the big high horsepower setups a secondary set of injectors are favored as they allow more precise cylinder trims and mapping

the reason that they are not used on most road cars is purely down to cost

an 8 injector set was used in the rs500 touring cars and is used in andy forrests subaru, 9.45@148mph on a damp track ! the fastest accelerating 4cyl /4wd car in europe!

this car is going to turn the cossy world upside down it's martins compound charged shappire, can you spot the twin fuel rails....


[img][img]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/ ... ngine2.jpg[/img][/img]

[WillG]

only see 1

[RichIS]

i can see 2 the blue rails aint they ?
dumpeds (martin)car sound stuning in the vids ive seen. a t34 blowing thru a t88 thumper it sounds

[WillG]

I see 1 turquoise bar there is hose coming of end going to what look like a fuel line to me, but its funny it has banjo fitting in end tho , I guess that is the other bar but I havent seen them with material round them like that before or are they just lots of small groves?

[RichIS]

dont think the banjos for fuel supply probaly to get the same pressure in both bars ??

found a vid of the car not very good but the sound

[WillG]

I dont see why not, where do you see other bar if thats not it

[professormatt]

ha ha wee gordon is riding shotgun

[RichIS]

yes the blue bars are the fuel rails but what i mean is the banjo fitting are probaly for geting the pressure the same in both rails not to feed the second rail from the first as i doubt the banjo would flow enought to feed the second rail

[Turbo-Brown]

Of course, I understand the advantages, but also the risks associated with them!

If you had a pair of equally sized injectors to get decent low end resolution which were set to crossover at 60% throttle and 4000rpm say, if one didn't work, you'd only get half the necessary fuel going in which has gotta be a recipe for disaster!

[professormatt]

the risks using single injectors would be just the same if one of them was to pack up

[Ant]

I think what Alex is trying to say is, should the main injector fail with the smaller unit still firing the fuelling would be lean as hell resulting in engine damage

if a big single injector failed, that cylinder would recieve no fuel, hence no combustion and no leaning out damage.

The point can be argued well by both sides, there are always pro's and con's to anything once a debate is opened.

My point was, using a single inj per cylinder is as effective, and less costly than a Pectel type install with small-big sizing and a mapped X over.

[Toby_Unna]

the risks using single injectors would be just the same if one of them was to pack up

read Turbo's first reply again

with one injector per cylinder, if the wiring fails or the injector stops working for whatever reason, the cylinder just stops firing.

With two injectors being relied upon per cylinder, if one stops working, the piston melts

running lean is a bit more of a risk than not running at all

[JAMZ]

Annywayy

Thks for the advice..thought it had something to do with the overfueling bit...MS is defo on the cards as soon as..Mortgage hasnt been paid this mth to fund this lil procedure so that takes priority over anything now..

ANT..il let yer know ASAP m8 but youve got the work,rest assured just a matter of time and hopefully not to much of that either