After People's Opinion on Engine Swap Dilemma

[J90rdn]

Hi

I guess I wrongly posted this question in the newbie section and didn't get a response, so copying it to here

I'm in the process of buying a 1985 316 (carb) coupé I was offered a few months ago for a very reasonable figure. The car is very honest and with only 2 owners and 67k miles would be a good buy, with only rusty arches to sort which is not a major problem. Question I have may divide opinion, but if I buy it I will be faced with 3 options.
1. Service the M10 engine and get it running right, and keep it original.
2. Tune the M10 to a more respectable bhp figure.
3. (and the one I'm tending to lean towards) swap the M10 for a M52B28.

I know a pov spec 316 carb M10 is not the best place to start with an engine conversion, but in keeping with the retro theme and having such an honest car to start with is really tempting. Then again, I've been reading on here that turbo charging the M10 is also a good option.

Needless to say, any power increase would be counter balanced with new uprated brakes and suspension all round.

What would be peoples opinion?

[Rav335uk]

Chrome Bumpered car deserves an M30.
No 24v crap.

[DanThe]

Hi

I guess I wrongly posted this question in the newbie section and didn't get a response, so copying it to here

I'm in the process of buying a 1985 316 (carb) coupé I was offered a few months ago for a very reasonable figure. The car is very honest and with only 2 owners and 67k miles would be a good buy, with only rusty arches to sort which is not a major problem. Question I have may divide opinion, but if I buy it I will be faced with 3 options.
1. Service the M10 engine and get it running right, and keep it original.
2. Tune the M10 to a more respectable bhp figure.
3. (and the one I'm tending to lean towards) swap the M10 for a M52B28.

I know a pov spec 316 carb M10 is not the best place to start with an engine conversion, but in keeping with the retro theme and having such an honest car to start with is really tempting. Then again, I've been reading on here that turbo charging the M10 is also a good option.

Needless to say, any power increase would be counter balanced with new uprated brakes and suspension all round.

What would be peoples opinion?

Bin the M10 and go for option 3

Ignore the Captain, he is in denial

[TSM3]

^ what he said...you won't be disappointed

[steve_k]

Chrome Bumpered car deserves an M20.
No 24v crap.

fixed

chrome bumbered car needs a naughty spec m20 2.7/2.8

no need for any plastic 24V scrap.

[Rav335uk]

^ what Rav said...you won't be disappointed

EFA

[jonb]

If your going to do anything to it then just tidy and bin the carb for a set of weber carbs. The standard carb is a horrible thing and i know this as my first car was a '316'.

Im always the first one to say buy a faster car, but if you want a little more poke then a large cam will work and sound good on the m10. Your car has a mechanical pump on the head, which means even more pissing around if your going to fit an injection engine in there. Dont bother with turbo charging.

[J90rdn]

Cheers guys - some sound advice and it's great to get so many diverse answers from people who are obviously passionate about the modification direction they have taken.

The M20 2.7 route sounds good, but I don't have the time or quite that amount of technical knowledge to carry that one off.
I'd more of less discounted the M10 turbo route anyway - doesn't seem like anyone has leapt to it's defence!
M30 - not looked at this route, although I quite like the thought of retro looks but with a relatively modern engine and drivetrain underneath. Isn't the M30 quite old technology?
M52B28 does seem to give most bang for buck.

[Rav335uk]

M30 maybe "Old Tecn", but it's a work horse engine.
Not a lot goes wrong with them.
Take a look in the "M30 engines" section, there's plenty converting to those atm.

[J90rdn]

M30 maybe "Old Tecn", but it's a work horse engine.
Not a lot goes wrong with them.
Take a look in the "M30 engines" section, there's plenty converting to those atm.

Will do some more research then. Are they as easily and cheaply available as M52's, and are the power and performance figures comparable?

[Rav335uk]

M52's make about 210hp, but with mods, like an M50 intlet.
M30's have about 211hp, but the torque band is better.

Have a look in the section, i'm doing a full engine rebuild atm in there.

[TSM3]

As much as I hate to say it, I do agree with Rav on the torque - especially on an M52 with an M50 inlet, the low down torque isn't great. But the top end makes up for it.

[Topblag]

if you're not needing a load of horsepower, a 325i engine (M20B25) is all you need.

To do it properly you'll need the whole underside of a 325i as well as the entire contents of the engine bay, the majority of what's in and under the dashboard, lots of wiring, the panel above the front windscreen and other things.

Best thing to do is buy a good 325i which runs great and that is rotten, and swap it all over.

Or you could just buy a 325i.

[J90rdn]

if you're not needing a load of horsepower, a 325i engine (M20B25) is all you need.

To do it properly you'll need the whole underside of a 325i as well as the entire contents of the engine bay, the majority of what's in and under the dashboard, lots of wiring, the panel above the front windscreen and other things.

Best thing to do is buy a good 325i which runs great and that is rotten, and swap it all over.

Or you could just buy a 325i.

This confuses me. From what I've read of the M50 and M52 engine conversions, in terms of electrics all I would need is the wiring loom up to a certain point, and the EWS. From what you've said here putting an M20B25 engine in sounds a lot more effort. So I'm confused if that is the case as to why that would be an option (and thats genuine confusion, not a sarky comment )

[alan1272]

if you're not needing a load of horsepower, a 325i engine (M20B25) is all you need.

To do it properly you'll need the whole underside of a 325i as well as the entire contents of the engine bay, the majority of what's in and under the dashboard, lots of wiring, the panel above the front windscreen and other things.

Best thing to do is buy a good 325i which runs great and that is rotten, and swap it all over.

Or you could just buy a 325i.

This confuses me. From what I've read of the M50 and M52 engine conversions, in terms of electrics all I would need is the wiring loom up to a certain point, and the EWS. From what you've said here putting an M20B25 engine in sounds a lot more effort. So I'm confused if that is the case as to why that would be an option (and thats genuine confusion, not a sarky comment )

because you have the most basic model of e30, any conversion you undertake will make it adviseable to fit the larger/more competant brakes, suspension and diff from a higher spec model (325i, 318is). there is plenty of info on the zone, i suggest you do some reading .

[J90rdn]

if you're not needing a load of horsepower, a 325i engine (M20B25) is all you need.

To do it properly you'll need the whole underside of a 325i as well as the entire contents of the engine bay, the majority of what's in and under the dashboard, lots of wiring, the panel above the front windscreen and other things.

Best thing to do is buy a good 325i which runs great and that is rotten, and swap it all over.

Or you could just buy a 325i.

This confuses me. From what I've read of the M50 and M52 engine conversions, in terms of electrics all I would need is the wiring loom up to a certain point, and the EWS. From what you've said here putting an M20B25 engine in sounds a lot more effort. So I'm confused if that is the case as to why that would be an option (and thats genuine confusion, not a sarky comment )

because you have the most basic model of e30, any conversion you undertake will make it adviseable to fit the larger/more competant brakes, suspension and diff from a higher spec model (325i, 318is). there is plenty of info on the zone, i suggest you do some reading .

Yes, I've already done a fair bit of reading thank you! If you look at my original post it says I know thus is a pov spec, and from the reading I've done I appreciate mechanically its a fair amount of work. The question I asked was around the electrical statement made.

[DanThe]

Electricity had only just been invented when the M30 first made an appearance so you wont have any problems there. For a 24v swap there is a nice man who does plug&play OEM style looms so you wont have any problems there either

[Rav335uk]

Electricity had only just been invented when the M30 first made an appearance so you wont have any problems there.

There you go, It's lasted that long so far, can an M50/2 claim that

[J90rdn]

Lol - a battle of wills. Love it.

Rav - although I'm still leaning towards the m52 as my preferred choice, what kind of money are we talking about for an m30 engine and manual box?

[Rav335uk]

Lol - a battle of wills. Love it.

Rav - although I'm still leaning towards the m52 as my preferred choice, what kind of money are we talking about for an m30 engine and manual box?

I bought my first one for £900, but that was a Full manual car, drove it about for about a month, then took out the engine and put it in the cab, sold frag of the car, and cost me about £500 in the end.

The one I bought and am rebuilding now cost me £175 for the engine and box, but once it's rebuilt, it'll be a fresh new engine, good for another stellar mileage.

[Kedge]

the majority of what's in and under the dashboard, lots of wiring, the panel above the front windscreen and other things.

You don't need any of that. The only thing you need under the dash that isn't already there is the 325i ECU and the engine loom ECU plug.

You do eventually want to be upgrading the running gear to at least 325i standard though with any of these conversions.

As for engine choice, just read up about all the options and go with what you prefer, if anyone locally has a converted car see if you can get a ride in one. I've gone down the M20B28 route for my 316, other options would probably have got me more power cheaper but for whatever reason I chose to stick with an original E30 engine.

[Morat]

Don't forget that all nearly all tourings (there are apparently some very early exceptions) have 325i style suspension, brakes and ABS.

[J90rdn]

the majority of what's in and under the dashboard, lots of wiring, the panel above the front windscreen and other things.

You don't need any of that. The only thing you need under the dash that isn't already there is the 325i ECU and the engine loom ECU plug.

You do eventually want to be upgrading the running gear to at least 325i standard though with any of these conversions

Yes, that's exactly what I thought, and this is my exact plan