cheapest, quickest and easiest M30 conversion route

[gareth]

in peoples experience, what's the easiest and least labour intensive route to a M30B35 conversion?

i'm looking at using the E34 version as the low compression allows room for a blower in the long term... also i'll have the right sump on it!

so, assuming i have a 325i tourer (already with LSD, sorted suspension, H&R probably and a large dose of 4 pot brakes soon) and a manual E34 535i donor car, how is best and easiest to go about it with the least hassle? preferbly taking as many parts as possible from the E34 donor...

[bigdek]

from ur e34 you need

engine and gearbox and starter . ( remove as one unit)
engine loom
ecu
powers steering pump
alternator
throttle cable
front of the propshaft
downpipes



you will need an e28 535i rad and bottom hose
electric fan of your choice'
exhaust of your choice

Make your own mounts or buy from Karan or E30.de
gearbox crossmember from your 325 bolts straight on.
rear of your 325 prop

i have replaced all hoses , rubber mountings ,drive coupling etc

All the little bits soon add up to a feww hundred notes.

DRop the engine and box in in one go from the top it goes in no problem


Got mine fired up today so nearly done

probably missed something but will edit when i remember.

[gareth]

cool!

so you reckon a E34 donor plus say Ԛ£300 would cover it?

will the tow halves of the prop (E30 rear, E34 front) mate up or is any custom fabrication needed?

although my exhaust is standard bore, it is a scorpion so mating the downpipes will do for now. this would need uprating at a later date as and when i get the power itch again!

how long did you take over getting it all swapped over?

[bigdek]

Ԛ£300 no chance m8.

rad is about 120
mounts 140
prop needs shortenened and balanced. Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£ ???

you will need other bits and bob which add up quickly

i have just been doing a bit here and there but i reckon 3 or 4 good days would see you sorted

i have been lucky as my donor was only Ԛ£170 .

Sold the no plate for more than that and have since sold most of the other parts

[gareth]

are the two propshafts the same diameter? my brother has a mate who does custom propshaft stuff so if it's just a case of shortening, changing the gearbox end and balancing then that's easy enough.

is the E34 rad far too big to be used or is it just more awkward?

i reckon with a mate rate, Ԛ£50 will cover the prop, scrapyard parts will do custom downpipes (i'm handy with a mig welded so that's no problem) so it's then the mounts and the usual engine change stuff like all new hoses, rubber mounts, cambelt, clutch (daft not to unless the donor one is almost new). plus obviously the mounts, although i thought karan was after about Ԛ£100 for them... could be wrong though.

i see that lot at about Ԛ£300 - 400. minus whatever i get for the leftovers of the E34. a tatty sport will be the best donor as it'll yield the best resellable parts like suspension, bodykit, obc, interior etc etc.

am i wildly out?

[bigdek]

you will shit yourself at the price of rubber mounts , hoses , drivecoupling etc.

i bought the rubbers from the dealer as i wanted qualty ones as i have read a few posts on the cheaper ones not lasting.

prop for 50 propbaby ok .

Dude is doin mine for 45

e28 rad is sweet as it fits snugly and mount holes are already there .

mounts were 140 from Karan . i had to moify them slightly though.

i think 500 would be a bit more realistic m8 but maybe still not enough

[Andy335Touring]

and a manual E34 525i donor car

I assume thats a typo mate ?

Don't forget you will need a differant ratio dif ????

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... ic&t=22729

E34 rad might be doable but it will be more work making brackets and stuff, i seem to remember that it wasn't as wide or tall as the E28 535 rad but it was thicker ?

You can use the cooling expansion tank from either the E34 M30 or E30 M20.

If you are on a tight budget and it looks in good condition then you could reuse the E34 top rad hose and the M20 rubber engine mounts but thats your call realy.

It's probobly easier and more expensive to use a cone air filter but if you don't mind a bit of extra work then the E34 air box will fit if you make a mounting bracket for it, this could save you a few quid ?

Clutchs are expensive, i paid about 160 for sachs(sp?) clutch

Your 325 battery will be fine to use with the M30 if its in good condition.

Hunt around your scrappies for a cheap cooling fan rather than using a pacet or kenlow fan.

You shouldn't need any other down pipes, just the E34 ones should be enough ?

[gareth]

yup, that's be a typo!

what diff ratio would mine have? (it's a standard 1990 325i tourer and has a LSD). if i need to replace the diff for a new ratio, my old one is fine so can be sold on. so that's not the end of the world. i'll just have a go first. is it something to do with a 1:1 5th gear on the M30 and an overdrive 5th gear on the M20? it rarely/never goes on a motorway and this concversion will be purely about cheap performance so a short ratio will not be too bad for me... i think!

my thinking with the E34 rad is that it would allow more room down the sides for boost hoses, should i head that route! however, if the E28 535i one simply fits in i may just do that instead!

i have new M20 rubber mounts already. are they the same as the M30 ones?

i have a few cone filters lurking so i'll probably just use one of them to get me up and running at least.

i have got a 205 gti single fan and and citroen bx 16v twin fan setup lurking so there should be one in there that'll do it. how should i do the switching on it? i know kenlowe do kits for this but i'd rather rob something from another car! did bmw do anything with an electric fan?

so lets start the shopping list! (worst case on everything!)
~ E34 535i to cannibalise (hopefully paying for itself with the leftovers!)
~ taller ratio diff? (i'll try mine first)
~ E28 535i radiator (maybe use E34 one... i'll decide once i have it)
~ E28 535i bottom radiator hose (if using E28 radiator)
~ M30 rubber engine mounts? (maybe reuse the E34 ones or my new E30 M20 ones)
~ gearbox rubber mounts (maybe reuse if the're ok)
~ cambelt
~ oil, filter
~ pas and alternator/water pump drive belts
~ water pump (every bmw engine i've owned so far has had this fail on me!)
~ cone filter (should have one that'll do. or reuse the E34 airbox...)
~ clutch (check condition, maybe reuse)
~ cooling fan (i should have one that'll do it)
~ thermostatic switch setup for fan
~ modified propshaft (make one out of the two)
~ guibo drive coupling (maybe reuse the M30 if it looks VERY good)
~ M30 conversion engine mounts
~ new hoses where required (depending on condition of donor parts)

[TommyC]

I do believe the diesel drive shafts will brdge the gap from the m30 tranny to the rear diff perfectly.

If this means the prop shaft, then you might not have to muck around chopping, welding and balancing yours mate.....

Kenlowe type fan setups just use a little temperature bulb thingy shoved in the top hose!!! The wires get squished when you do up the jubilee clip and it never really seals properly.

I'm sure you could design something better yourself mate. A quick flick through the CPC catalogue would find, a suitable temp bulb (one that would work properly glued on the outside of the rad or something??), the required resistors, a POT for fine adjustment, maybe a relay thrown in for good measure........

[Andy335Touring]

what diff ratio would mine have? (it's a standard 1990 325i tourer and has a LSD). if i need to replace the diff for a new ratio, my old one is fine so can be sold on. so that's not the end of the world. i'll just have a go first. is it something to do with a 1:1 5th gear on the M30 and an overdrive 5th gear on the M20? it rarely/never goes on a motorway and this concversion will be purely about cheap performance so a short ratio will not be too bad for me... i think!

Yours should be a 3.91, it's best to check it. You could get started on this ratio but you will lose 1st gear as it will be to short geared, ask Toby as he used one for a bit.

The only M30 gear box(that i know of) with a 1:1 5th is an E28 dog leg box, the others are 4th 1:1 and OD 5th. Have a read of that other thread about M30 difs to see what ratio suits you best.

so lets start the shopping list! (worst case on everything!)
~ E34 535i to cannibalise (hopefully paying for itself with the leftovers!)
~ taller ratio diff? (i'll try mine first)
~ E28 535i radiator (maybe use E34 one... i'll decide once i have it)
~ E28 535i bottom radiator hose (if using E28 radiator)
~ M30 rubber engine mounts? (maybe reuse the E34 ones or my new E30 M20 ones)You need M20 mounts, M30 mounts are to tall if i remember correctly
~ gearbox rubber mounts (maybe reuse if the're ok)
~ cambelt chain driven cam !
~ oil, filter
~ pas and alternator/water pump drive belts
~ water pump (every bmw engine i've owned so far has had this fail on me!)
~ cone filter (should have one that'll do. or reuse the E34 airbox...)
~ clutch (check condition, maybe reuse)
~ cooling fan (i should have one that'll do it)
~ thermostatic switch setup for fan
~ modified propshaft (make one out of the two)
~ guibo drive coupling (maybe reuse the M30 if it looks VERY good)
~ M30 conversion engine mounts
~ new hoses where required (depending on condition of donor parts)

Ask Toby about his thermo switch for his fan.

[bigdek]

toby used a switch from a volvo but doesnt know which one.

screws straight into the thermostat hosing beside the others

i will in the scrappies this week looking for one for myself .

[gareth]

Yours should be a 3.91, it's best to check it. You could get started on this ratio but you will lose 1st gear as it will be to short geared, ask Toby as he used one for a bit.

i'll have a look next time i'm under there... is the problem simply that it makes 1st redundant due to the sheer grunt of the thing?

b]You need M20 mounts, M30 mounts are to tall if i remember correctly[/b]

cool! that's one part sorted then!

chain driven cam !

DURRRRRRRRR!!! me being stoooooooopid! is there any tensioner pads or anything that are worth changing here?

i will be in the scrappies this week looking for one for myself

let me know what you find?

i expect i can sort something clever out for the switch but it's easier to pinch someone elses design from another car!

the diesel prop idea sounds good, though rarer than the M3 one ever here as it's a european mainland thing only afaik...


due to the recent promlems with my engine now including what seems to be a broken ring, i'm looking at the option of getting this conversion sorted (and hopefully back on the road) over christmas!

[Brianmoooore]

! did bmw do anything with an electric fan?

Electric fan from a 5/7 series with aircon fits an E30 perfectly. Mount at the right hand side of the frame in front of the rad, with one rubber mount half way up the vertical box section there.
Other two mounts require small angled brackets.
Fuse and relay positions are already there in the E30 fusebox.

[gareth]

cool!

do you know how the switch is mounted?

i found these in the RS catalogue:
search for part number 331-562 and 561-460 at www.rswww.com

both look like they could be used but neither are likely to be as elegant as using a OEM part! did it have a thermoswitch thingy positioned in the thermostat housing or similar? is it likely that a E34 with aircon will have everything i need? regarding the fuse and relay positions, are the positions there but empty? (is you see what i mean) or will i have to remove the wiring for an option i don't have?

brian, any more info you have tucked up your sleeve would be worth a stack of beers!

[Brianmoooore]

cool!

do you know how the switch is mounted?

i found these in the RS catalogue:
search for part number 331-562 and 561-460 at www.rswww.com

both look like they could be used but neither are likely to be as elegant as using a OEM part! did it have a thermoswitch thingy positioned in the thermostat housing or similar? is it likely that a E34 with aircon will have everything i need? regarding the fuse and relay positions, are the positions there but empty? (is you see what i mean) or will i have to remove the wiring for an option i don't have?

brian, any more info you have tucked up your sleeve would be worth a stack of beers!

Thermoswitch is fitted on the right hand side of the rad. All rads have a moulding where the switch goes, but it is normally not drilled or tapped.
Some replacement rads have a threaded boss and a blanking plug.
OE switch is a three terminal device with two switches set at different temps.
To use the positions in the E30 fusebox - K1 and fuse 3, or K6 and fuse 18 - you have a choice of two, you need a terminal from the dealer to fit a fuseholder and one to fit a relay base, and a couple of lengths of wire. The one to the switch can be thin, but the motor one needs to be heavy gauge, as the fan on full speed takes over 20 amps.

[gareth]

i should have guessed you'd have the answer!

that's got to be the way to go then.

hopefully, the E28 rad will have the boss there, otherwise that's another reason to be a cheapskate and try to use the E34 one!

so, it's best to find a donor E32 or E34 with aircon... shoudn't be too hard...

[bigdek]

e28 rad has 2 suitable holes all ready for a switch and a blanking plug

[gareth]

well, this has to be the way of doing it then!

[gareth]

right, updated shopping list time! this is just essential parts. diff etc will be tried first and may be replaced at a later date...
~ E34 535i to cannibalise (hopefully paying for itself with the leftovers!)
~ E28 535i radiator (maybe use E34 one... i'll decide once i have it)
~ E28 535i bottom radiator hose (if using E28 radiator)
~ oil, filter
~ pas and alternator/water pump drive belts
~ water pump (every bmw engine i've owned so far has had this fail on me!)
~ cone filter (should have one that'll do. or reuse the E34 airbox...)
~ cooling fan (i should have one that'll do it)
~ thermostatic switch setup for fan (bmw parts) ;)
~ modified propshaft (make one out of the two)
~ M30 conversion engine mounts

having trouble finding a cheap enough E34 at the moment though... eyes peeled people!

[gareth]

ok... i've been offered a M30B35 from a E32 7 series. the car is an auto but the engine is apparently sweet which is why my local bmw specialist bought it from a customer but he no longer needs the engine himself.

anyway, he's after Ԛ£50 for it!

will there be many more complications to using the lump from a E32? also, it being from an auto? or am i best off sticking to the E34 setup?

[bigdek]

bargain

[Andy335Touring]

bargain

Yep !

What do you get with it or is it just a bare engine ?

[gareth]

as far as i know, i get all engine related pickings i need. i was chatting to him and he knows exactly what i need... the car is running and has all parts on it still as he's not started breaking.

this seems very reasonable for the engine but will it cost me more in the long run once i've got a greabox, prop, clutch, flywheel, etc etc? damn shame it's an auto!

will it being a E32 auto cause problems? or do i just throw away any excess still like kickdown linkages etc?

what's a manual box and flywheel etc worth?

if i did this and won't have a propo from a donor, should i get a M3 prop? or will the prop end flange be the same as the manual?

so many questions! ive seen the cheapest running manual 535i's go for Ԛ£500ish so this looks to be a good idea and saves me having to strip a car.

[Andy335Touring]

Sounds good if you get all the bits with it like the loom/ECU/ETC, it's just that sourcing parts could slow your project down but it might be worth it if you are saving money ?

Ask Toby about using an auto engine as i think his was from an auto ?

[gareth]

i reckon even if he is thinking Ԛ£50 for the bare block, Ԛ£100 for the whole lot i need would be fair.

he doesn't need any of the rest so i can take anything i need, it's just on the off-chance he wants more money...

although it makes sense to keep it for reference, do i need the M30 loom or can i keep the M20 loom and adapt it where required?

if instead of having a donor car on hand i do strip everything i need from this, what will i need?

i've had a look on here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do and it seems the the E32 and E34 flywheels differ but the clutches are the same... is this likely to be a problem? can i mate any old M30 box and manual flywheel / clutch up? is there any partucular setup that is better to use?

will the auto prop be ok to modify or is the gearbox end different?

well, this just got a load more complicated!!!! at least like challenge!

[Andy335Touring]

I'm not great on giving advice on BMW engine looms as i made my own up because of my Emerald ECU but i'd guess you would be best off with the M30 loom ?

I'm using an E28 535 single mass fly wheel and clutch as it's a bit lighter but if i were you i'd just get the first one you found . It's a shame i have promised an E34 M30 fly wheel to some one else but if i don't hear from them soon it's yours.

A new E28 fly wheel is about 180 quid plus VAT so a second hand one is the way to go !

The gear box from the 530 and 535 are the same, including the same ratios so i guess the 730/735 will be the same ?

I'm not sure about the auto prop but i'd guess it would be differant ?

[gareth]

emerald? that's cheating!

i'd heard/read somewhere the E28 flywheel was lighter. probably not too noticeable with a M30 attached to it though...?!!!

what gearbox are you running? E32/34 or E28? if there's any difference?

i've just looked on the GSF site and they list a guibo coupling for the E34 535i but don't list one a all for the E32! i assume from this that it uses a totally different system... maybe!

[Andy335Touring]

I use an E34 gear box.

I've just looked on the ETK and the E32 735 dose have a guibo but its a differant part to the E34 535. The out put flange of the gear box is the same though ????

The props are differant as well but this might be down to the E32 prop being a bit longer ?

[gareth]

i suppose i'll just have to try it to find out! if i go ahead with the E32 lump then i'll grab the prop and guibo too, just in case!

[gareth]

well... i've got a whole E34 530i coming for the manual parts and loom etc and the engine from a E32 735i....

costs so far:
~ E34 manual donor.... Ԛ£100 (TBC but it was offered to my garage for this 2 days ago)
~ engine...... Ԛ£50!!!

result!

hopefully either the E34 or E32 will have aircon and bwtween 2 complete sets of hoses etc i'm likely not to need many replacements.

[Andy335Touring]

Nice one mate !

You should have it on the road by crimbo

[gareth]

that's the plan, well by new year anyway... a week of 'free' leave between christmas and new year is well useful!

does anyone know if karan has any M30 mounts? he's not replied to my pm's so i wonder if his inbox is full... failing that, is it e30.de ones or are there any other suppliers?

[Andy335Touring]

If Karan can't help then E30.de is the only other place for pre-made mounts that i know of apart from Sytner's

[gareth]

he may just be overwhelmed with selling the GUG... dunno...

looks like about 220 euros inc delivery... that's about Ԛ£150. not too bad... though it's as much as: my engine, box and whole donor car, or two!!!!

how long do they take to deliver?

[Andy335Touring]

how long do they take to deliver?

About a week i think ?