Gwyn's M30 (decided..) into little 316i thread...

[Gwynleym10]

M40 316i engines are crap sound is awful just generally wrong, doesn't sound like a bmw, more like a bog standard vaux or ford! Arhhh

M40 needs to be binned, but what shall i put in its place?
This is how i see it, what do we think?
Bare in mind I currently don't have anywhere to do a lot of work, so thats going to be on borrowed time!

M30 good
Cheap engine,
Good sound
Power
Cheapish to maintain?

m30 bad
quite a bit of modding of parts (propshaft/exhuast/engine mountings etc etc)
Heavy on fuel??

S14 good
Power
4 cylinder!
All parts are "bolt on" no fabrication.
Not heard of many s14's in standard looking cars?
Might work better with my Air-con.

S14 bad
Expensive to buy (but little or no modifications required)
Can be unreliable?
Not that cheap to look after.

M42 good
Cheap to buy and swap
Cheap to insure/own
4 cylinder lgihtness
No modding of parts

M42 bad
Power....
Would it be worth all the effort?

Can't really be arsed to think about m20..

[Batch]

Depends on what is your car for:
For everyday use (economy, reliability) m42 should work
For track use s14 should do better (power, lightness, better handling)
For kicking everyone's arse m30b35 should do - lots of torque from relatively low revs, cheap (fcuk fuel economy), reliable, and should go better than the s14.
I chose m30 for my project (but my e30 is not an everyday car, for everyday use i have cheap but rather fast jetta2)

[Gwynleym10]

hmm Its my only car, but I don't use it ever day! by a long way.

I do do some city driving, (which the old 316i is fine for) but not a lot and its not what i want the car to be based around.

When i do drive its usually to northwales, so something that handles well with a screeming motor really appeals to me (hence the s14)

But then the m30 would be good on the motorways... and probably nearly as good in thte moutains..

Some of the brain says the m42, but i think i might get bored of that so it would not be worth it?!

[Gwynleym10]

I do under 7,000 miles a year, while reliability is important, its not as if i need the car for work or anything!

[320Touring]

I do under 7,000 miles a year, while reliability is important, its not as if i need the car for work or anything!

at 7k miles you could spend the same on fuel as 12k in the m40 and get an m30 scudbucket.

bmw=6pot

tbh-the m42 and s14 are great engines, but a bit more fragile and less smooth than the m30-for a 4hr drive to wales I know what i'd rather have upfront to sooth me

[Gwynleym10]

TBH I think the m30 route will be the best in the long run, I **think** the cost for it all will be about the same as a S14, "possibly" a tiny bit cheaper.

But then i'm not that bothered to much about smoothness of the engine, strange yes but i like the revvy nature of 4 pots.. I like to screeeeeem.

Yea petrol isn't that important really! m30 would be great to convert to LPG as well.....

[stevetigger]

M40 316i engines are crap sound is awful just generally wrong, doesn't sound like a bmw, more like a bog standard vaux or ford! Arhhh

M40 needs to be binned, but what shall i put in its place?
This is how i see it, what do we think?
Bare in mind I currently don't have anywhere to do a lot of work, so thats going to be on borrowed time!

M30 good
Cheap engine,
Good sound
Power
Cheapish to maintain?

m30 bad
quite a bit of modding of parts (propshaft/exhuast/engine mountings etc etc)
Heavy on fuel??

S14 good
Power
4 cylinder!
All parts are "bolt on" no fabrication.
Not heard of many s14's in standard looking cars?
Might work better with my Air-con.

S14 bad
Expensive to buy (but little or no modifications required)
Can be unreliable?
Not that cheap to look after.

M42 good
Cheap to buy and swap
Cheap to insure/own
4 cylinder lgihtness
No modding of parts

M42 bad
Power....
Would it be worth all the effort?

Can't really be arsed to think about m20..

I think you will find the s14 would be hard to interchange! All m3 parts are way different!

[Gwynleym10]

I think you will find the s14 would be hard to interchange! All m3 parts are way different!

Whats the difference then?

For both m42 and m30 I would have to change the exhuast, prop, gearbox, cooling etc etc

In fact for the m30 conversion i would have to use some *modified* m3 parts...

Suspension and brake would be pretty standard m-tech stuff to start of with, but later upgradded.

[jaistanley]

The M3 engine wouldn't be hard to fit. E30 M3's aren't really way different at all. You would however need to make a new exhaust manifold or have the existing one modified to clear the steering knuckle.

I bolted all M3 suspension to my 318is no sweat. Engine would be as easy. Bear in mind you'd basically need everything from under an M3 bonnet and a custom manifold of sorts.

Before we get into a stupid row, I know the bodywork on the M3 is different and that it's a lot more torsionally rigid...A normal E30 with everything from an M3 wouldn't be as 'good' unless you addressed the aerodynamics and the stiffness of the chassis.

I love the idea of fitting an s14 engine but when I looked into the price of parts for it I was shocked! 'Hundreds' for things like water pumps and distributor caps. Sod that. I'm thinking of fitting a nissan 200sx engine and box now, or possibly an M3 evo or a 328is e36 engine but I feel the weight over the front end will hinder the amazing handling my car currently has..

You must consider the impications of fitting a dirty great big engine over the front wheels..Loads of torque but it'll affect the handling (you'll have to ask people who've done it for their testimonies, I'm yet to drive even a standard 325i in anger).

Jai

[Andy335Touring]

The S14 would work out more expensive to do the swap and parts for them are expensive as well.

Say the S14 engine goes bang, i'm guessing you are looking at 1000-1500 quid for a replacement engine. If the M30 grenades replacment M30's are going to be about 200-300 quid.

The exhaust manifolds on the S14 won't fit a RHD E30.

All though i am sounding negative towards the S14 (it is a cracking little engine and will make for a nice swap when done) the M30 does have it's own draw backs.

The main expenses are........

Engine mounts-120(?) from Karan(or 30 in metal for home made mounts ?)
M3 prop or Reco-prop-100-150
LSD dif-200-230
new rad E28 535-124(or 30 ish for a second hand one ?)
Exhaust-30 right up to 500(home made through to good quality custom exhaust)
uprated springs and shocks 300-1000 for Hartge H36 stuff !
Cheap E34 535 300-500(sell some of the parts on to make some monet back)

Because yours is a 316 you will want 325 vented front discs and rear disc's. Also you would want the ARB's as well, same for both swaps really.

[Gwynleym10]

I already have rear disc's /ARB and springs F/R so i don't need to worry about that, just need front struts and front ARB. Thats easy to sort out, done it before.

Hmmm S14 does look a lot more expensive and with the RHD things as well...

Yes It would seam that a s14 engine should only be in a m3 shell!


Andy is it possible to make the prop (and exhaust..) before hand, (if I use Karan's mounts so i know the position)?

Would like to have every thing ready so It will be a bit more "plug and play"

[Batch]

I just thought about the difference in weight distribution if m20b20 and m30b35 are compared. The total weight difference is about 37kg (m20 weights about 175kg, m30 about 212kg).
If we relocate the battery from the engine bay to the trunk (battery weights about 15kg) then there is about 15kg off front to the rear, real gain would be about 30 kg. We can relocate windscreen washer tank as well.
And we can lighten the flywheel for some 5 kilos as well. So theoretically the weight distribution should change only a bit.

[Gwynleym10]

This is especially true if the engine is mounted as far back as possible.

I also have a super large extra range fuel tank as well, so that more wieght at the back...

[Toby_Unna]

plug and play is difficult if you want the engine a long way back.

firstly because you'll really want to have the prop made and measured after the engine is fitted. secondly because you'll need to do a fair bit of hitting bulkhead, tranny tunnel. this depends on what gearbox, rubber mounts etc you use.

i have between p2 and p3 which would make things simpler - m3 prop goes straight on and mininal/no bulkhead alteration necessary. and it handles fine.

unless you're building a serious track tool, and putting serious suspension on to match, the change to f/r balance isn't a big deal.

[Gwynleym10]

i have between p2 and p3 which would make things simpler - m3 prop goes straight on and mininal/no bulkhead alteration necessary. and it handles fine.

Is this is position of the mounts that karan is getting done? think he said is was 2/3.

The reduction in cost of not having to get the prop shortened is a good thing!

Sure i wouldn't notice that much of a difference in handling...

[Karan]

position is 2/3

out of the above on a budget id do e34 m30 lump everytime!!!!
awesome awesome conversion!!!!

proper hero chariot stuff

[Gwynleym10]

Thanks Karan!

Next question...

Is a Z3M propshaft the same /similar to an m3 propshaft? Could it be made to work?? for this 2/3 position?

Thanks!

[Karan]

Thanks Karan!

Next question...

Is a Z3M propshaft the same /similar to an m3 propshaft? Could it be made to work?? for this 2/3 position?

Thanks!

hmmm i dunno... bbut instead just get a prop shortened for about Ԛ£130 froma prop fabricators

[Gwynleym10]

Just seen a brand new one for sale for not a lot....

[Andy335Touring]

In theory you could have a prop made like mine before you do the swap, the mounting holes of the center bearing are elongated and you have some adjustment in the spline so if the prop was slightly out theres a little leeway/adjustment there.

But if it's to wrong then thats 140 quid down the drain

Karans mounts are a copy of mine so you should have the engine in the same place as me. My prop is E30 rear section welded and balanced with an E34 M30 front section, the prop is 1450mm long from the flat mounting face at each end.



http://www.reco-prop.com/

Also in theory i could tell you how much you need to shorten the gear linkage by, but if it's wrong your stuck

What makes more sense is to try to see weather the E30 M3 prop will fit with those mounts, if it doesn't you can sell it on again to get your money back.

You will have to do the down pipes with the engine in, no way around this that i can think of. You just need a mate with a MIG and a grinder, depending how you are connecting this up with the exhaust it shouldn't take to long ?

[Demlotcrew]

I say S14! Its a great enegine and full of potential! Its very expencive and parts are very rare. You cant get any of them from the likes of ECP and Euro, C3 are more expencive than BMW, so your stuck with the dealers! But still after all that i say go S14, you wont believe the difference in road handling with the engine and box alone!

Andrew

[m10man]

Gwyn Gwyn Gwyn, you have left out an important viable alternative! An M10 turbo. You have a head don't you? The S14 would be nice but expensive to buy and expensive to repair. I cant speak from practical experience but having looked at doing an M30 conversion it looks like a big job. M10 turbo man, great handling dynamics with the lightweight engine and depending on what you want power from 200hp to 600hp. The stock M10 bottom end is strong enough to handle 600hp. The only upgrade really needed in the bottom end is a set of forged pistons. Worth a thought dude.

[Gwynleym10]

The m10 option is possibly still there, feck i miss it, the m40 is crap in comparison, and that just the noise!!!

The head is on its way to the states, had an offer on it which i couldn't refuse (four times what i paid for it...)

S14 is def too expensive, when i get bored of the m30 (prob about 6 years) time i'll get an m3!

[Mops]

here in NZ, few people did mazda rotary conversion for the e30. rotary engines are VERY light, lighter than 4 pots, they are small and compact, loud ass, rev to 9k and use heaps of fuel (prolly like m30). but with a turbo they put out 300hp easy....

I'm inposition of buying very cheaply e30 89 facelift 318 with mtech bodykit and all, with damaged engine very cheaply.

my options are:
1. put my m20b25 and scrap my current pre-facelift body
2. m30 conversion... engines are reasonablt cheap, but manual tranny is hard to come by here
3. m50 conversion.... still too expensive... for the cost of engine and box alone i could buy e36 318, or high k's 325 e36
4. nissan sr20 conversion.... again... not as expensive as m50, but decent motor and box will cost a bit too
5. rotary conversion.... possibly... again high output engines cost more than low hp cars here
6. researching now: toyota 2.4 turbo diefel conversion.... here we dont have bmw 3 or 524td, and toyota use that engine to power over 2 tonne hilux surf and that is pretty slow, but 1200kg e30 should be just fine with incerased boost, water and lpg infection