Vauxhall XE Engine into E30 325I ? Edited

[Lamin-X]

Hello all,

Im a recent member and this is my first real question on the forum...I hope it's not one that's asked too often, or one that is annoyingly obvious for those in the know but here goes.

Suppose I had an e30 325i, and wanted to fit the e30 M3 engine...What are the parts/modifications required?

Would there be a better base car? 320i? 318i?!

Is there a 'how to' anywhere so to speak?

Im open to other 4 pot suggestions too (Admittedly im not even sure there is another bmw 4 pot?)

The plan is to either fit the m3 engine etc, or run another 4 pot with modified internals.

Any input appreciated.

Thanks,Neil.

[appletree]

Theres the m42 4pot found in the 318is.

Why do you want a 4pot somuch why not a 6pot?

M3 s14 wont fit in a RHD car thats why all M3s are LHD as there needs to be space for the exhaust manifold.

You could make a new one but it would be alot of work and almost certainly make less power.

Sorry....

[fuzzy]

why not a cosworth 4 pot? much more power to be easily had .

[bss325i]

Theres the m42 4pot found in the 318is.

Why do you want a 4pot somuch why not a 6pot?

M3 s14 wont fit in a RHD car thats why all M3s are LHD as there needs to be space for the exhaust manifold.

You could make a new one but it would be alot of work and almost certainly make less power.

Sorry....

Not true! An S14 will fit perfectly well into a RHD E30 but as you say the exhaust manifold to steering coupling clearance is the issue.

It is possible to mod the existing maifold without loosing power.

See Demlotcrew's S14 powered RHD 318iS.

[Lamin-X]

Thanks for the input lads, much appreciated

Im afraid i can't give too much away as it's a 'potential' project that may well end up going quite badly wrong...The reason for sticking with a 4 pot is basically due to the possible internal modification (Steel rods and the like) to build a high rpm lump.

Regarding the exhaust manifold, would a custom made stainless one solve the above issue's?

Also, is the s14 the e30 m3 engine? Apologies but im still learning If it is, then is it a case of using the same engine mounts etc?

If you lads have links/pictures handy that would be great

Neil.

[e21Jason]

Hi

Fitting an s14 is very easy as it all bolts in the mounts subframe etc are the dame as the m10 and it the manifold mod is simple down side is the price of an s14, then the price to mod it, a tasty s14 is about 5-6k

Jason

[Lamin-X]

Thanks Jason.

After doing a little skim reading, I have possibly come up with a cheaper option...Im ready to get my coat though

I have a vauxhall c20xe 2.0 16v red top engine sat around doing nothing, and i also have an opel manta 1800cc gearbox, manta big winged ally sump and 1800cc manta distributor.

So i guess you can see what's coming? Vauxhall engine into the e30?

A friend of mine has a rally prepped mk2 escort running the XE engine (240@ the flywheel) so I do at least know that fancy bits such as steel rods, fancy crank etc are readily available...Which reminds me, I have some weber 45's and a manifold sat around too!

Mmmmm. Can anyone enlighten me on this conversion or give general advice on if it would be worth it?

I can let you know that the car will weigh in at around 8 or 900kg at the absolute max and ideally id like the engine to produce at least 220bhp.

Neil.

[Jhonno]

Good luck getting an e30 to weigh 8-900kgs..

I can't think of one I've seen weigh less than 1000kgs

[e21Jason]

graham bahr's e30 which races in the Dunlop Motorsport News Champion is 900kg, (240bhp 2.5l m10 built in a shed) he reokons maybe 850kg for a acid dipped shell, grp doors wings etc and super light carbon seat a lot of extra work and cost to get down below 900kgs.

His car is totaly striped, lightwieght harness, brakes, wheels, grp boot, lightened bonnet and doors perspex windows.

jason

[Jhonno]

50kgs saving dipping a shell?!

[e21Jason]

No dipping a shell plus a few other upgrades doors seats etc bonnet wings, also his car still has the underseal on it.

Jason

[Lamin-X]

Sorry lads, the weight is a bit of a guestimate...mainly based on the fact that only or less than, half of the e30 will remain Then additional weight saving through carbon/fibreglass will go ahead too.

Any thoughts on the Vauxhall/manta bits into an e30? Is there an ideal base car? 325i? or a lesser engined model? I suppose a sport would be a good bet with having an lsd?

Thoughts appreciated.

Neil. (Must get to bed!)

[Jhonno]

Sport would be your worst bet imo.. Just fit a slipper

[appletree]

Theres the m42 4pot found in the 318is.

Why do you want a 4pot somuch why not a 6pot?

M3 s14 wont fit in a RHD car thats why all M3s are LHD as there needs to be space for the exhaust manifold.

You could make a new one but it would be alot of work and almost certainly make less power.

Sorry....

Not true! An S14 will fit perfectly well into a RHD E30 but as you say the exhaust manifold to steering coupling clearance is the issue.

It is possible to mod the existing maifold without loosing power.

See Demlotcrew's S14 powered RHD 318iS.

If its not a daft question then if you dont loose power and you can mod it easly why didnt bmw do it in the first place? Surely the m3 would have appield to a larger market if it was available in rhd?

[GeoffBob]

If its not a daft question then if you dont loose power and you can mod it easly why didnt bmw do it in the first place? Surely the m3 would have appield to a larger market if it was available in rhd?

Probably based on economics (like most decisions made by car manufacturers). It's only a guess, but I would suspect that BMW were uber cautious that the sales figures wouldn't exceed the cost of setting up a RHD E30 M3 line.

[rix313]

Why do you want a 4pot somuch why not a 6pot?

I expected more from you

(240bhp 2.5l m10 built in a shed)

Would you or any one for that matter explain to me how a seemingly dull single cam can engine, can be built to have so much power it really interests me. Tah.

[Nobby_N]

Why would you want to put a Vauxstall engine in a lovely E30? Seems a lot of work for something not need imho! lol

[Chuntington101]

2.3ltr duratec. 300bhp on throttle bodies and about 95-100kg!

Chris.

[UweM3]

2.3ltr duratec. 300bhp on throttle bodies and about 95-100kg!

Chris.

+1 for that engine!

[UweM3]

If its not a daft question then if you dont loose power and you can mod it easly why didnt bmw do it in the first place? Surely the m3 would have appield to a larger market if it was available in rhd?

Probably based on economics (like most decisions made by car manufacturers). It's only a guess, but I would suspect that BMW were uber cautious that the sales figures wouldn't exceed the cost of setting up a RHD E30 M3 line.

They just didn't bother. As easy a s that.
Initially there had been concerns that the required 5000 M3's for race homologation can't be shifted in the first place. How wrong!

[e21Jason]

BMW were getting 100 bhp per litre from single cam engines since the 70's no big secret just costs money, and they are a race engine i.e. top end power and a rebuild after every race. Lister owne sells 220 bhp 2.0l m10 of the shelf for historic racing about 7k to buy 3k a year to run.

Graehme's engine is a 2.5l so that makes it less peaky easier to drive, so the basics are high comp pistons, 336 deg cam heavily ported head, the ports are reshaped to be a lot steeper. Tested on a flow bench they are about the same as a stock s14. Steel rockers and a dry sump, efi with 8 injectors and a modified ford pinto manifold.

Also Graham has been tunning and racing engines inc m10's for about 20 years, and it taken 20 years of tuning, flow testing, dyno work and racing to get a 240BHP m10

[Lamin-X]

Why would you want to put a Vauxstall engine in a lovely E30? Seems a lot of work for something not need imho! lol

I wish i could let on with more details of the project, but basically only the e30 floorpan/front and rear suspension and towers etc will remain. (Although the standard stuff will be upgraded)
And the car will be a full on track toy used for advertising and lots of fun hopefully. It's a big, big project and it's pretty scarey but we are willing to have a go.

2.3ltr duratec. 300bhp on throttle bodies and about 95-100kg!

Chris.

Another option isn't a bad thing thanks Chris...But as we already have an XE engine/manta box/sump etc, the duratec would have to be very much more tempting...And I know absolutely nothing about them?

What are the standard figures? And would a conversion be just as straight forward as the Xe lump?

Im really fishing for any info at all no matter how small...Such as would the manta gearbox mount into the bmw without modification? I do know that i have the correct 1800cc box to mount to the Xe engine.
Any info like that really.

Thanks.
Neil.

[rix313]

You've mentioned that 'you wish you could say more', why can't you?

[ross_jsy]

read tris's thread about his redtop powered e30.

iirc it was slower up our hill climb than a 325i lump with a cam.

food for thought maybe?

although i want some 4 pot power at some point. get some weight off those front wheels

[Lamin-X]

You've mentioned that 'you wish you could say more', why can't you?

I guess i can Rix, it's just that it will be quite different and original, and having not done something like it before, I really don't want it to go horribly wrong before the internets eyes We would like to keep this on the 'down low' really

We have this:
http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v17/ ... 205941.JPG
http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v17/ ... 3_rear.jpg
http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v17/ ... st_011.jpg
http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v17/ ... st_005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/m ... st_016.jpg

Which has looked like this for the past 7/8 years now.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/m ... l53063.jpg

We plan on rear wheel driving it, originally planning to use an opel manta floor pan with the XE engine...But now looking for a more modern (and less rusty!) floor pan/suspension/running gear set up hence bmw e30. This keeps things cheaper than other options such as 944 etc.

read tris's thread about his redtop powered e30.
iirc it was slower up our hill climb than a 325i lump with a cam.

food for thought maybe?

although i want some 4 pot power at some point. get some weight off those front wheels

Thanks Ross, i did read the thread which is superb. It was a little dissapointing to see it broken up for bits etc...But we are planning on some serious engine work for the XE lump if we do indeed stick with it. An oversize rebore with high compression pistons/steel rods etc at the very least.

Neil.

[e21Jason]

My mate has a stripped MK2 with tuned 1.8t conversion very very fast and light, just got not traction, pissed all over my MK2 g60.

You know you can get a adaptor to take the 1.8t to a ford type 9 box, and if you really want a light e30 drop the shell onto a kit car chassis like this one

http://www.gkdsportscars.com/overview.html

Jason

[ross_jsy]

had never thought of the 20vt lump as a conversion....makes sense really. its a good engine and makes plenty of power with a revo, parts easy to get and lots of tuning options. plus a common engine and its still german, what more could you want!

[Lamin-X]

Something without a turbo! I have to admit to not being a fan of them at all, much prefering the engineering of internal parts with natural aspiration.

I suppose im of the oldsCool really, the first car i ever drove at the age of 12 was an opel manta 400 replica running weber carbs and 10j wheels! Damn...That was 18 years ago!

I have driven many turbo cars by the way, including a friends 450 horse sierra cosworth...Rediculously fast, but my love lies with high rpm n/a. And the vw 16v engine dosn't really compare with the vauxhall engine in terms of power/£££ when tuning. Plus it would obviously be hard to run it in rwd configuration, unless sitting it in the back which i dont want to do really. Definately sticking with front engine, rwd.

Neil.

[rix313]

Sounds like a brilliant project Lamin. Post up everything you can IMO. Full rebuild and RWD conversion sounds brilliant!

[Lamin-X]

Thanks Rix,

Could you guys help with some info?

1/ Can you lads run full coilover suspension set ups?

2/ Could someone kindly measure the distance between the center of 1 front wheel to the center of the rear wheel?

3/ Could somebody measure the distance between the inner wings at the widest and smallest points?
Or better still between the strut towers as well.

4/ Could anyone give any details on the vauxhall engine conversion?

5/ Lastlt (for now ) If anyone could throw any pics up such as the ones below, that would be great Anything such as axle/subframes/engine bay without engine/gearbox mountings etc etc

If all the above can be helped with, then it's time to start looking for a knackered 325i?

[ross_jsy]

well after reading that it gave me some dirty dirty plans.

gods musta been smiling as there was a type 9 gearbox for sale on a local car website. (tris off here who built the redtop powered e30 funnily enough is the seller). so think ill get that off him.

my mate has the prop shaft off that car, type 9 output to e30 diff, so ill have a chat with him and see how cheap he will do it.

jason, where could i get that adapter? just so i can start pricing things up.

then gotta find the 20vt, shouldnt be too hard though!

[e21Jason]

Adaptor

http://www.tigersportscars.nl/Bellhousings.htm



Jason

[321gazza]

hi mate,i have a c20let in my e30 taken from my manta (which is being restored)if you choose to fit the red top you will have a problem with the sump,ie remove the heater from car and cut into the baulkhead to fit the engine further back which i done,or make a new sump to miss the subframe,i used an omega manual box as its a turbo,manta box ok up to 200bhp but remember the manta box will have done a lot of miles.exhaust is on the opposite side of steering uj no problems thier,if rhd that is,i have the two door 318i so have the smaller front struts i will fit bigger ones from an 325,318is,or a touring for the bigger ones the 325 diff might be a bit long legged for a 4 pot motor so get an 318is if possible, i also fitted a manta steering rack aswell as no power rack needed,needed lots of mods to the rack ie used the trackrods from the e30 steering tubes from on e34,give you the short version of mods.without trackrods manta rack longer, to much lock to lock,cut manta rack welded e34 tubes to manta rack fitted e30 trackrod ends moded manta steering uj made a bracket to fit to e30 subframe fitted rack all good so far.goodluck with the project.

[Lamin-X]

Gazza, that's just the kind of info im digging for thanks. If you have any more (no matter how small) please do post it up along with any pics you have. It would be much appreciated.

Would i get away with using the big wing ally manta 1800 sump/pick up pipe that i have sat here? The car won't be running a heater at all, and things may end up roomy as part of the mk1 golf bulkhead may remain.

If you view This post on page 1, you will see what we are wanting to do.

Neil.

[321gazza]

shall do mate,the bulkhead on golf will have to be cut as its cheaper to make a new tunnel than a new sump etc, the front anti roll bar had to be fitted to the front of the sub frame ie take off roll bar mount onto bottom suspension arms as usual lift roll bar up to chassis and thats where you make a bracket to mount the roll bar.i had to make my own engine mounts using omega rubber mount on the the o s part of sub frame using original mounting holes as i have a turbo had to mount the n s mount on to the sub frame itself not on to the e30 mounts as you could do, i used omega v6 mounts (may be all the same size) they give about 2" clearance between sump and cross member,remember if you cut the bulkhead to make sure that you make enough room for the dizzy thats on the back of the head if you have the dizzy less ignition no worries,if you use the manta dizzy you will have to make or mod the mounting for the dizzy as the belt will have to be tensioned,i used a 2.0l carlton rad as the hoses line up better for the rwd application and has a header tank as a turbo has to deal with a lot of heat,you may get away with the 16v rad,will post up pictures if i can so you can see what ive done mate.